Flyers- bottom line..weaker defense, weaker goaltending, weaker offense

[Polaris922]

Speaking of weaker goaltending , Louongo is said to be gone- o from Vancouver. Just kidding here but a straight swap for Bryzgalov would almost be cap neutral. Bobby Lou said he loves playing in a " hockey market"... So um Bryzgalov could go to Vancouver and be the backup.

"a straight swap"... That's gotta be in sarcasm font! I know it's wishful thinking... But I don't think anybody would absorb that contract. Nobody in their right mind anyway.

[doom88]

"a straight swap"... That's gotta be in sarcasm font! I know it's wishful thinking... But I don't think anybody would absorb that contract. Nobody in their right mind anyway.

Which one?

[Polaris922]

Which one?

Bryzgalov

[doom88]

Bryzgalov

I'm surprised you could pick. Both contracts are awful in my opinion, but Bryz was just paid 10m of his deal already.

[mojo1917]

Yep, after this year that deal is like 35% paid, I think lots of cash poor teams that need a cap number to be compliant might be interested. We'd probably have to throw in a second rounder but they're useless for us anyhow.

No Bryzgalov or Hartnell eh @Polaris922 ?

You would love Hartnell just the same as you love Kunitz . 'cept Hartnell is entertaining and has a sense of fun. Plus Bryzgalov is a workhorse, he'll give you 65 starts easily.

[OzFlyer]

Louongo is still a damn good Goalie despite all the buzz around the league about his contract. Just don't play him in Boston!

[Vanflyer]

Yep, after this year that deal is like 35% paid, I think lots of cash poor teams that need a cap number to be compliant might be interested. We'd probably have to throw in a second rounder but they're useless for us anyhow.

I said the same thing. In fact even if the Flyers let him rot on the bench for one more beyond this year, HALF of the contract will have been paid!!

The problem is that we don't have another goalie.

[Vanflyer]

Louongo is still a damn good Goalie despite all the buzz around the league about his contract. Just don't play him in Boston!

I agree with this and Vancouver is probably the third hardest city to play in (behind Toronto and Montreal). Philly would seem like a holiday to him.

[Polaris922]

Yep, after this year that deal is like 35% paid, I think lots of cash poor teams that need a cap number to be compliant might be interested. We'd probably have to throw in a second rounder but they're useless for us anyhow.

No Bryzgalov or Hartnell eh @Polaris922 ?

You would love Hartnell just the same as you love Kunitz . 'cept Hartnell is entertaining and has a sense of fun. Plus Bryzgalov is a workhorse, he'll give you 65 starts easily.

Bryzgalov may be a workhorse but if he doesn't perform better this year it could make for a long decade for you guys unless they swallow the money to be rid of him. I liked him in Phoenix, I just think they had a more defense minded system. Luongo has a stupid contract too but he's had some success for the 'Nucks.

I wouldn't live Hartnell either. I don't like his style at all. Wouldn't be so bad if he pulled his stunts then stood up to tough guys, but he runs away then picks fights with little guys most of the time. I have to respect a guy before I like him, so Hartnell is out.

[Mad Dog]

I wouldn't live Hartnell either. I don't like his style at all. Wouldn't be so bad if he pulled his stunts then stood up to tough guys, but he runs away then picks fights with little guys most of the time. I have to respect a guy before I like him, so Hartnell is out.

We may not like his antics or behavior, but hey......... as long as his production is in line with what he gave us last year, you won't hear me complaining.

But I hear what you are saying. Tomas Holmstrom is in a similar category.

[mojo1917]

Bryzgalov may be a workhorse but if he doesn't perform better this year it could make for a long decade for you guys unless they swallow the money to be rid of him. I liked him in Phoenix, I just think they had a more defense minded system. Luongo has a stupid contract too but he's had some success for the 'Nucks.

I wouldn't live Hartnell either. I don't like his style at all. Wouldn't be so bad if he pulled his stunts then stood up to tough guys, but he runs away then picks fights with little guys most of the time. I have to respect a guy before I like him, so Hartnell is out.

Hartnell answers every call that I've seen, you are really not looking at that objectively at all... And that's okay I get it , you're a fan of a different team. So you're going to see it how you see it. The guy isn't Sean Avery or Matt Barnaby which is how your post reads. If he was a penguin you'd be fine with what he brings, cause he'd be your guy. You can say differently but I won't believe you.

[jammer2]

@Polaris922 "I wouldn't live Hartnell either. I don't like his style at all. Wouldn't be so bad if he pulled his stunts then stood up to tough guys, but he runs away then picks fights with little guys most of the time. I have to respect a guy before I like him, so Hartnell is out."

Whoa there...so you're basically calling Harts a coward who picks his spots?...I don't think so. He does not back down from anyone that I've seen, and I watch all the games. This coming from a fan whose team employed Matt Cooke a few years ago...yeah, sure he cleaned up his act, but before he did he speared about a hundred fellow players and wouldn't man up for 99% of them. You spear sombody, you should be ready to drop the gloves, right there and then, no questions asked.

Let me finish by saying, the Penguins employed the most cowardly player "ever" in the form of 2010-2011 Matt Cooke.

[Polaris922]

Hartnell answers every call that I've seen, you are really not looking at that objectively at all... And that's okay I get it , you're a fan of a different team. So you're going to see it how you see it. The guy isn't Sean Avery or Matt Barnaby which is how your post reads. If he was a penguin you'd be fine with what he brings, cause he'd be your guy. You can say differently but I won't believe you.

Actually he IS very Avery-like in my eyes. Barnaby was an ass but dropped the gloves with pretty much anyone. He went with heavy-weights (and lost) fairly often. Yes Hartnell picks his spots, and no he doesn't answer every call. I specifically remember him turning away from Engelland and then trying to engage little Steve Sullivan, then Paul Martin. I don't see every Flyers game obviously, but I've seen him hide enough against Prust, Clarkson, and a few other middle weights. He's been the butt if a few jokes at the hockey fights sites. Sorry Mojo but a spade is a spade...

[Polaris922]

@Polaris922 "I wouldn't live Hartnell either. I don't like his style at all. Wouldn't be so bad if he pulled his stunts then stood up to tough guys, but he runs away then picks fights with little guys most of the time. I have to respect a guy before I like him, so Hartnell is out."

Whoa there...so you're basically calling Harts a coward who picks his spots?...I don't think so. He does not back down from anyone that I've seen, and I watch all the games. This coming from a fan whose team employed Matt Cooke a few years ago...yeah, sure he cleaned up his act, but before he did he speared about a hundred fellow players and wouldn't man up for 99% of them. You spear sombody, you should be ready to drop the gloves, right there and then, no questions asked.

Let me finish by saying, the Penguins employed the most cowardly player "ever" in the form of 2010-2011 Matt Cooke.

Sticking with a spade is a spade... Matt Cooke.

Jammer I don't pay Matt Cooke so I can't get rid of him. Until this past season I didn't like having him on our roster. I don't like his style up till then either. I never liked Carcillo either and celebrated that we let him go. So no, you can't say I'm hypocritical because we're it up to me the Pens wouldn't have players like that. One season of clean play doesn't necessarily sell me on Cooke either. I guess we'll see how this next season goes.

[jammer2]

@Polaris922 Having witnessed Cooke's junior career first hand with my hometown Windsor Spitfires, I was appalled with some of the stuff he did as a kid, so I knew he would be the same type of NHL player. I probably saw him spear at least 40 players in the OHL, some worse than others. A true coward in every sense of the word.

EDIT, of course, the hits from behind are his true calling card, no remorse for ending careers...sickening.

Edited July 7, 2012 by jammer2

[idahophilly]

I am not sure about "diamond", but he certainly found someone that was both young and very athletic and could play goal decently for his experience- and did so in an unconventional way.

Snider most definitely eff'd things up. When the boss says something, you have to listen. But if you are worth your salt, you also have to be pretty adamnant in opposing a move that you feel is wholeheartedly wrong. Whether that happened or not with Bryz, we will never know.

There are two things that really stick in my craw regarding Bobs:

1) The initial contract they signed him too. It essentially was a NHL contract or nothing contract (if they sent him down last year to the AHL- his salary would have been 75K). He needed playing time to gain more experience- not be a backup.

2) They traded him (still a mercy trade) and what did they do with the 2nd rounder they got for him- drafted a goalie that will not sniff the light of day in an NHL rink let alone an AHL rink!!!! WTF???

If you are just going to go around making sense then theres no talking to you!

[mojo1917]

@Polaris922

Right in you eyes.

Barnaby is a galliant competitor, and Hartnell is swine, Only a homer can think like that.

Thanks for making my point.

Last word on this is yours, enjoy.

[Polaris922]

@Polaris922

Right in you eyes.

Barnaby is a galliant competitor, and Hartnell is swine, Only a homer can think like that.

Thanks for making my point.

Last word on this is yours, enjoy.

I didn't defend Barnaby either.. I said he was an ass. Only thing I could say in his defense was he DID engage tougher guys and lost appropriately. His antics were pitiful most if the time. Players like him, Avery, Hartnell, Carcillo, Tucker, Cooke up till last year anyway... Jury remains out... No room for any of them in my eyes. Mojo I really try to see things without "homer" glasses involved. I know nobody can do it perfectly, but I do try. I don't see them in any better light than I view Hartnell. They're all clowns.

[Polaris922]

@Polaris922 Having witnessed Cooke's junior career first hand with my hometown Windsor Spitfires, I was appalled with some of the stuff he did as a kid, so I knew he would be the same type of NHL player. I probably saw him spear at least 40 players in the OHL, some worse than others. A true coward in every sense of the word.

EDIT, of course, the hits from behind are his true calling card, no remorse for ending careers...sickening.

I've never understood the league's tolerance of such players. Cooke seems semi-talented when he loses that side of his game. I dunno if one year of clean living convinces me he's changed. If he truly has, then I guess he got lucky and wasn't banned first. This league has allowed some pretty nasty crap to go on (Bertuzzi, McSorley, etc..) but seems to be changing. Hopefully...

[jammer2]

@Polaris922 Man oh man, does Windsor seem to kick out the agaitator types. Former gradutaes include Cooke, Ott (both former 50 goal scorers in the OHL, so they do have some offense) Michael Rupp, and Cam Jansen. Todd Gill in his heyday was the OHL heavyweight champ, never saw that guy lose a fight even though he gave up a lot of weight back in junior.

[Polaris922]

@jammer2 I bet you enjoy the Windsor games. I was stationed in Rome, NY ages ago and watched the Devils' farm team for years at $7 a seat. Loved the AHL stuff with Stephane Richer, Chris Terreri on rehab stints, all that stuff.

[jammer2]

@Polaris922 I've been going to OHL games for 35 years. Witnessed some amazing talent come though...Wanye Gretzky, Paul Coffey, Steve Yzerman, Steve Stamkos you name it, I've seen it....even at 20 bucks a ticket, it's a great bargain. The best league in the wolrd not named NHL if you ask me. Wow, has inflation ever caught up, I remember going to the the Windsor Arena (affectionaly called the "barn") for 2 bucks a ticket.

[B21]

@Polaris922 Having witnessed Cooke's junior career first hand with my hometown Windsor Spitfires, I was appalled with some of the stuff he did as a kid, so I knew he would be the same type of NHL player. I probably saw him spear at least 40 players in the OHL, some worse than others. A true coward in every sense of the word.

EDIT, of course, the hits from behind are his true calling card, no remorse for ending careers...sickening.

First - why does Polaris commenting on Hartnell have anything to do with Cooke? He was asked about Hartnell and answered. He wasn't going out of his way to criticize Hartnell while absolving anything Cooke has done. If this "unwritten rule" that you can't point out the dirty deeds of one player if the team you root for also employs a dirty player were strictly enforced then Flyers fans would have no room whatsoever to attack the Matt Cookes and Sean Averys of the world. I assume you'd have some serious issues with the Flyers ever signing or trading for Matt Cooke based on your comments above. Fair. So I'll ask...did you have any issues when the Flyers gave up the equivalent of four 1st round picks for Chris Pronger? By "issues" I don't mean what you gave up or the length of his contract. I mean issues like the ones you pointed out about Matt Cooke that bother you. If Cooke is cowardly and sickening, then what is Pronger? My answer? You didn't have any issues. No one who posted regularly in the old forum had any. None. Zero. Zilch. Nary a mention of having any issue with anything Pronger has done...and we are talking about a list of incidents either equally as bad or far worse than anything Cooke has ever done and a list that is a heckuva lot longer.

2008 - Stomps on Kesler's leg with his skate. 8 games...

2007 - Blatant elbow to McCammond's head. 1 game...

2007 - Drive's Holstrom's head into the glass. 13 stitches. 1 game...

2004 - Actually kicks Ville Nieminen during a game. 1 game...

2002 - Crosscheck to Morrow's head. Happened to be with 1:30 left in a playoff game they were losing 3-1. 2 games...

2001 - Left the bench to start a fight. 1 game..

1998 - Slashed Roenick in the head. 4 games...

1995 - Hit's Peake in the throat with his stick (fractured his thyroid cartilage). 4 games...

You can also add his cheap shot punch on Granato when he was with the Blues.

Is any of that apalling? I've yet to come across a Flyers fan who will admit that it is. Maybe because doing so is admitting that short of Crosby going on a mass killing spree, nothing a Penguin has ever done will ever come close to Pronger. I know...none of that happened while he was a Flyer to which I say "I don't care." I've seen more than one comment about how the Flyers would never want a Matt Cooke or Chris Kunitz or even Crosby because of their "incidents". Yet the same fans couldn't say enough GOOD things about Pronger when he was aquired. The only "issues" were what the Flyers gave up. Yet he has a history worse than those guys. That isn't biased Pens fan talk or Flyers hate. It's a simple fact and one that Pronger's H of F career does not absovle him from.

I've followed hockey for a long time, too. I don't EVER recall a hint of remorse from Pronger on anything. Cooke ends careers? Any number of those incidents could have ended careers. It's only by sheer luck that some didn't.

You're a long long LONG time poster. One of the best here and from the silly.com days. I just think it was total BS the way you called out Polaris and your comments about Cooke were over the top when, using your own rationale, you have someone a lot worse on your team than Matt Cooke will ever be.

I will disagree with Polaris in that Hartnell does usually answers the bell. I can't see a guy having that many career fights and not answering and he's dropped them with some heavyweights. That said...Hartnell can be a sneaky POS, too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrV3WnJPGNk

[jammer2]

@B21 First off thanks for the kind words. I realize Pronger has been involved in some dirty incidents. Never denied that. Just want to say I like and respect Polaris as a poster here, he adds a lot to the threads he is involved in. I guess I was just pissed because I really strongly believe Hartnell should not be grouped in with shady characters such as Barnaby and Steve Avery, that grouping is just plain wrong on many levels.

Totally realize the Flyers have employed some questionable guys, from Frank "Blood" Bathe to Billy Tibbets. Hartnell however, is not one of those guys.

[Polaris922]

@B21 I didn't Worry about it so much because Pronger's days are done I think and Cooke's aren't. You make valid points though in that Pronger clearly is no saint either.

I'll stand behind my thinking on Hartnell though. Yes he drops em occasionally, but again I've seen him cower from it as well after playing instigator. Obviously Flyers fans have too because they watch every game. I think it probably gets justified as "not the right time" or whatever and forgotten. Lol. A valid argument once in awhile.