Flyers- bottom line..weaker defense, weaker goaltending, weaker offense

[B21]

@B21 First off thanks for the kind words. I realize Pronger has been involved in some dirty incidents. Never denied that. Just want to say I like and respect Polaris as a poster here, he adds a lot to the threads he is involved in. I guess I was just pissed because I really strongly believe Hartnell should not be grouped in with shady characters such as Barnaby and Steve Avery, that grouping is just plain wrong on many levels.

Totally realize the Flyers have employed some questionable guys, from Frank "Blood" Bathe to Billy Tibbets. Hartnell however, is not one of those guys.

We're on the same page with Hartnell. He's had his moments. At the end of the day though, he's not in that group. Shh...I'd love him on the Pens.

[B21]

@Polaris922

<< I didn't Worry about it so much because Pronger's days are done I think and Cooke's aren't. You make valid points though in that Pronger clearly is no saint either. >>

An understatment ("no saint") but OK. I just can't stand that guy. One of the biggest POS to ever play. There is nothing about him to make me think he's even a "good" person. Forced trades. DUI. Stolen pucks (allegedly). 4 teams. Cooke has been traded once (deadline deal). Played most of his career for two teams. Runs his own charity and has been involved with many others. Generally regarded as a good locker room guy.

<< I'll stand behind my thinking on Hartnell though. Yes he drops em occasionally, but again I've seen him cower from it as well after playing instigator. Obviously Flyers fans have too because they watch every game. I think it probably gets justified as "not the right time" or whatever and forgotten. Lol. A valid argument once in awhile. >>

We can agree to kinda disagree.

[doom88]

Pronger was an extreme dirtbag.

Cooke is/was scum.

Hartnell does answer the bell most times, except against pure fighters - but if it's a skilled fighter the gloves fly.

The Pens still have James Neal, who I hope bleeds next season, and Chris Kunitz, who still needs his from the Timonen playoff assassination (kneeing). Neal is a pure coward. He flew to the bench in the 2012 playoffs, despite having his choice of guys to go with. Oddly enough those are all playoff examples. Hmmm.

[trevluk]

Players like him, Avery, Hartnell, Carcillo, Tucker, Cooke

Polaris, Hartnell is no angel, but I think he also brings a different and better skill set to the table than that list of players and in my eyes does not belong on that list. Hartnell is many things, some good, some bad, but in my opinion I dont think he is a particularly dirty or cheap player overall (almost every player has their moments though) and to me that is the big difference with the rest of the players on that list.

Edited July 7, 2012 by trevluk

[Polaris922]

Polaris, Hartnell is no angel, but I think he also brings a different and better skill set to the table than that list of players and in my eyes does not belong on that list. Hartnell is many things, some good, some bad, but in my opinion I dont think he is a particularly dirty or cheap player overall (almost every player has their moments though) and to me that is the big difference with the rest of the players on that list.

I don't regard him as dirty as in hits to the head and such, just an instigator that doesn't always answer the bell. I don't expect him to fight the McIntyre's and such, but to run away from Engelland? Just my opinion, obviously means a lot eh? Lol

[Polaris922]

We're on the same page with Hartnell. He's had his moments. At the end of the day though, he's not in that group. Shh...I'd love him on the Pens.

No don't say that!! Lol

[trevluk]

I don't regard him as dirty as in hits to the head and such, just an instigator that doesn't always answer the bell. I don't expect him to fight the McIntyre's and such, but to run away from Engelland? Just my opinion, obviously means a lot eh? Lol

For what it's worth, I would run away from Engelland too. Then again, I dont get paid millions of dollars to get my face bashed in!

[jammer2]

@Polaris922 Englland is a legit top 10 heavyweight in the NHL, most non enforcers want no part of that dude.

[BearOnIce]

I disagree.

1. You think Bob was something special? Based on what? I think Leighton is a good fit for the back-up job. He has played well when called-upon.

2. I don't think the offense will suffer at all. JvR barely even played last season. And Jagr was good, but he really showed his age down the stretch and into the playoffs. We have every reason to expect that the kids will make strides this season, especially Schenn & Cooter. (I think Schenn is poised for a break--out season.)

3. On defense we will have a full season with Grossmann. He made a huge difference when he came over before the trade deadline. And I think Luke Schenn will be way better than people expect. Just let the kid hit, clear the porch and play D. Our D just got WAY more physical, IMO. Kimmo, Grossman, Schenn, Mezsaros, Bourdon, etc.- that ain't a bad defensive corps. In fact, I'd say our top 4 is up there with just about anyone's.

. . .and Homer isn't done yet. I expect another move or two before the season, not to mention he will undoubtedly make a big push to trade for Weber by the deadline.

And now Gervais with a 69+ rating, only Pronger, Kimmo, and Mez have a 70+ rating indicative of a Top 4 defenceman. There is going to be some healthy competition, and depth a D this year.

[flyerrod]

I would say something about thread hijacking but I am sure I would be accused of being angry..............

[mojo1917]

Well you are lol!P

[flyerrod]

Well you are lol!P

Mr. McGee, don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry

[radoran]

Well, I'm pretty psyched I can save some money on cable this fall since there's no point in watching hockey.

Oh, right, they actually play these games on ice from October to April, not in July.

Seriously, though, I like this team and think they can do Very Well.

And it was such a nice ledge...

[Polaris922]

@Polaris922 Englland is a legit top 10 heavyweight in the NHL, most non enforcers want no part of that dude.

Didn't know others really saw him that way. Thought that was my "homer" side. Lol

[radoran]

Didn't know others really saw him that way. Thought that was my "homer" side. Lol

\

You're not, by any chance, from Windsor?

:-)

[Polaris922]

\

You're not, by any chance, from Windsor?

:-)

Nope... Pittsburgh. But I gather there's an inside joke to that?

[radoran]

Nope... Pittsburgh. But I gather there's an inside joke to that?

Ask @jammer2 about it

[B21]

Pronger was an extreme dirtbag.

Cooke is/was scum.

Hartnell does answer the bell most times, except against pure fighters - but if it's a skilled fighter the gloves fly.

The Pens still have James Neal, who I hope bleeds next season, and Chris Kunitz, who still needs his from the Timonen playoff assassination (kneeing). Neal is a pure coward. He flew to the bench in the 2012 playoffs, despite having his choice of guys to go with. Oddly enough those are all playoff examples. Hmmm.

If Pronger "was" then Cooke "was". Can't have that one both ways. Agree on Hartnell.

For pure cowardice I present...Danielle Briere. No one on the Pens can match his career work with the stick and you can count on one hand how many times he has dropped the gloves. Kunitz and Neal have dropped much more frequently.

Sorry but Briere is a punk in every sense of the word.

[Podein25]

Sorry but Briere is a punk in every sense of the word.

Nah, he's just really careless with the stick. It's not like he's a finesse player who has control over his stick at all times.

[B21]

Nah, he's just really careless with the stick. It's not like he's a finesse player who has control over his stick at all times.

Touche.

[flyerrod]

If Pronger "was" then Cooke "was". Can't have that one both ways. Agree on Hartnell.

For pure cowardice I present...Danielle Briere. No one on the Pens can match his career work with the stick and you can count on one hand how many times he has dropped the gloves. Kunitz and Neal have dropped much more frequently.

Sorry but Briere is a punk in every sense of the word.

I suppose you are into dwarf tossing too......................

[mojo1917]

Regarding Briere, it must be tough to be a little guy playing a big man's game. He doesn't get too many calls despite his oscar worthy acting chops, i think he works his stick to keep from being made into a stain on the half-wall. he's a thoughtful guy . whom i'll bet discovered early on in his NHL career that he was going to have to reinterpret the rules if he was going to remain in the league.

@B21 punk is a little harsh, he has some punk in him, but the guy isn't kicking dogs, chasing trick or treaters from his house and scamming old people out of their social security checks the way that criminal Kunitz does

[Bertmega]

@Polaris922

Fort Drum?

I did cold weather training there back in the 90's when I was in the USMC.

Sorry didn't mean to change the subject. Rome NY caught my eye though.

[B21]

I suppose you are into dwarf tossing too......................

Way over my head...

[Polaris922]

@Polaris922

Fort Drum?

I did cold weather training there back in the 90's when I was in the USMC.

Sorry didn't mean to change the subject. Rome NY caught my eye though.

Stationed at Griffiss, nuclear security teams. Trained advanced combat/ABGD with the Army though so I spent some time coming and going thru Drum though too. 87-93. Funny how that sticks with you huh? Rome NY!