would you...L + B Schenn for Weber?

[ctid]

Not reported anywhere or anything like that.

I was wondering IF we, sorry, the Flyers, were to trade for Weber, it would obviously be a trade where we, crap, the Flyers, would have to give up ALOT!

For me, of the younglins, Couts is off the table no matter what. But surely, any trade for Weber would then HAVE to involve B. Schenn. no discussion.

Would you give up Brayden AND Luke if it meant getting Weber?

Probably not enough and we would have to package more with those guys.

I'm 50-50 on this.

[Phillygrump]

If we could sign Weber long term.

[sarsippius]

There would have to be more coming from our, er, the Flyers side for sure. Luke I retrade without hesitation, Brayden maybe...but to get the best defenseman in the NHL I probably do it IF he signs long term. As long as coots is off the table.....

[Jmdodgesrt4]

Nope. I trade nobody off this team unless their names are shelly,kimmo or briere. Let's face facts this is not a cup contender this year and weber would not change that. A package including both schenn brothers would only be the starting point. If pronger was worth the value of 4 first rounders and not being in his prime I would say weber is worth maybe 6. Like both schenns and coots and coburn and a first or two even. With that deal we would have nothing upfront and not knowing if our goaltending is going to be decent would actually set us back 5-10 years. No thanks. Wait till next years ufa and get perry,weber, or getzlav

[The Quigster]

Sometimes you just have to be patient. I don't think Webber can guarantee a cup.

Edited July 9, 2012 by quigly 46

[murraycraven]

Nope. I trade nobody off this team unless their names are shelly,kimmo or briere. Let's face facts this is not a cup contender this year and weber would not change that. A package including both schenn brothers would only be the starting point. If pronger was worth the value of 4 first rounders and not being in his prime I would say weber is worth maybe 6. Like both schenns and coots and coburn and a first or two even. With that deal we would have nothing upfront and not knowing if our goaltending is going to be decent would actually set us back 5-10 years. No thanks. Wait till next years ufa and get perry,weber, or getzlav

--- could not agree more... great post. I think the best bet is to show some patience and let the young kids continue developing. Next years FA crop is very nice and bringing in Weber still does not make this a viable Cup contender for this year. If we can get Weber in FA and bring in Perry this Team would be super exciting for years to come.

[Bertmega]

I thought the RFA compensation for his salary hit would be two first rounders a second and a third.....

In any case, I wouldn't do it either. The Flyers need to draft and develop defensemen for a change. The only problem I see is that the owner is not that patient and we typically do not pick high enough to land a Webber.

I like the idea of having Webber on this team. I think there are fans from 29 other teams that would utter the same thing, but at the end of the day, the package would be so hefty that we'd be lucky to see Giroux on this team next season.

Pollie is no dummy, if I were in his shoes, I'd start the asking price for a trade at Claude Giroux. Why not? Rookie talent is great, and upside potential is awesome, but what we are looking at is the centerpiece of a franchise right there.

I think had there been some foresight on the Pronger issue, a trade last season would have been made that involved Carter and Richards and a couple of 1st round picks.

Webber is that good.

[Jmdodgesrt4]

If weber has no intentions in staying in Nashville he will never sign an offer sheet. Nashville will match no matter the offer and he is stuck there. A offer sheet Is pointless. Im guessing your thinking compensation for the offer sheet, right?

[AndyS]

No.

[BearOnIce]

Not reported anywhere or anything like that.

I was wondering IF we, sorry, the Flyers, were to trade for Weber, it would obviously be a trade where we, crap, the Flyers, would have to give up ALOT!

For me, of the younglins, Couts is off the table no matter what. But surely, any trade for Weber would then HAVE to involve B. Schenn. no discussion.

Would you give up Brayden AND Luke if it meant getting Weber?

Probably not enough and we would have to package more with those guys.

I'm 50-50 on this.

Trade no one. Do nothing this year. Nothing. Flyers are not going to win a Cup this year. Pronger could be 100% healthy and they could get Weber in trade this year and they would still not win. They would not go anywhere. Goaltending is that suspect. Also, youth is youth. Patience. Wait until next year. This is the year of evaluation. This is a year of development. If Bryz plays better, then we become a more attractive location for free agents, including name defensemen. If the youth develops, ditto. Maybe Pronger comes back. Maybe Kimmo plays reduced minutes and one more year. Maybe Bryz becomes Ken Dryden. Maybe some of the kids tajke it to another level. Lots of if's. You must develop from inside the organization.

[OccamsRazor]

I second that. Weber is no guarantee to win.

So no i'll hold onto them, both of these kids are still young. And have plenty of potential.

It would just cost too much...like Lindros one player can only do so much.

Not ready to give up on something before we really know what we have.

[ratskull]

I would do that trade in a heartbeat. I agree that Weber would not guarantee a cup. No one player can guarantee a cup. But players like Weber only come around so often and if you have an opportunity to snag one, you do it. The Schenn's "could" turn out to be great players, but Weber "is" a great player. With all that said, the Schenn's wouldn't be enough to land Weber and as you add more to the deal the less appealing it would be.

[Polaris922]

IF they would take this trade (which they wouldn't I don't think) you'd be crazy not to do it.

As for Pronger... Guys he brings leadership to your team but nothing more. His talents were faded when you got him in my opinion, but now, injury or not, he's washed up. The guys posting to look to the future have it right outside of Weber. Develop develop develop!

[Spinorama]

As for Pronger... Guys he brings leadership to your team but nothing more. His talents were faded when you got him in my opinion

while I don't disagree with the fact that his talents faded, before injury when we first got him, he was far from faded. Was he Pronger of old? definitely not, I'll absolutely give you that. The guy was maybe 85% of his former self by the time we got him but he certainly brought a lot more to the table. Had a booming and accurate slapper from the blue line. Had the crease clearing ability this team needed. the leadership you talked about. had the ability to make the other guy he was paired with better (see Matt Carle), and so on. I'd take Pronger the first year we had him at that cap hit over say, retaining Carle for what he ended up getting from Tampa Bay every day of the week.

but now, injury or not, he's washed up.

yup, "you know it's sad but true"

Develop develop develop!

c'mon dude, this the Flyers, they develop players for OTHER teams to reap the rewards... to which I'll reiterate: "you know it's sad but true"

[jammer2]

It's to early for a move like this. My preference is to build from the net on out. Until we find out if Bryz can handle the pressure of the playoffs, everything else is a moot point. Sure, Weber would go a long way to shore up the defense, but he's not on the ice for the whole game....and even if he was....will Bryz stop letting in soft backbreaking goals? We need an answer to this question before we start ripping the franchise apart. LA put a mish mash defense together (really Doughty is the only star), but had the ace in the hole, Quick....we don't have that.

Even if Weber comes here, you can expect a cap hit of 10 mill a year, how do you have anything left over to contend with? Scoff at 10 mill all you want, he will get it on the open market, so why sign for less than that right now....answer...he won't.

[Polaris922]

@Spinorama

I agree 99%. You said the same thing in that when you got him he was 85%... I just said faded and generalized it more. In no way did I mean useless. The only thing I'll disagree with you on was him improving Carle. I posted stats in the Carle discussion previously that showed Carle actually had better stats without Pronger... Was hard to believe but that's why I posted it when I saw it.

I guess my point is if Pronger were fully healthy right now you'd still be better off giving the ice time to a developing player.

[OccamsRazor]

I would do that trade in a heartbeat. I agree that Weber would not guarantee a cup. No one player can guarantee a cup. But players like Weber only come around so often and if you have an opportunity to snag one, you do it. The Schenn's "could" turn out to be great players, but Weber "is" a great player. With all that said, the Schenn's wouldn't be enough to land Weber and as you add more to the deal the less appealing it would be.

Lindros to is one that don't come around often and is my favorite Flyer of all time sorry if people don't agree. But wonder what would have happened if the Flyers would have kept Forsberg and the other 40 players the traded for him. Because with them they where basically a one line team...hard in todays era for one player to shoulder that load.

[Vanflyer]

If pronger was worth the value of 4 first rounders and not being in his prime I would say weber is worth maybe 6.

For me, I would rather give true picks. That said, even in the pronger situation, here is what it plays out to:

1) Lupul (which Anaheim turned into Beauchemin while giving top prospect Gardiner in the process)

2) Sbisa- still developing

3) 2009 1st rounder- John moore who was turned into 2009 1st round pick (#26-Kyle Palmieri- has played 18 games thus far for the ducks) 2009 2nd round pick (#37-Matt Clark- has not played a game yet for Anaheim)

4) 2010 1st rounder- Emerson Etem- has not sniffed pro ice yet.

So, the current impact on Anaheim for the Pronger trade is this:

1) Sbisa- currently 4/5 defenseman.

2) Beuchamin (minus Gardiner)

They have some good prospects, but none of them have arrived.

Would you do Sbisa & Beuchamin plus 3 prospects for Pronger and Gardiner? This is a great example of how these things play out.

Now back to your point on Weber and 6 first rounders. That will never happen. While Poile and Holmgren have a great relationship, Holmgren tender and offer sheet TODAY to Weber where the maximum return for Nashville would be four 1st round picks. All trades have to be viewed in that vein. Most clubs would rather have a) something that will help them immediately along with b) more pieces that will help them long term. Which takes us back to the pronger trade. NOTHING helped them immediately. Lupul was a cash dump on the Flyers part. Had he not have the blood disease he came down with, he could have helped them immediately. That is an annomally I guess. But at the end of the day, Anaheim did not wreap and rewards of that trade until they got Beauchamin.

Luke Schenn + B. Schenn would + picks would be way too much. Luke Schenn + #1 prospect (NOT playing on the Flyers) + 2 #1 picks would be fine. IMHO of course.

[Jmdodgesrt4]

Sry I have to disagree with you here. When I said 6 first round picks I meant it would have to equal that either by players and picks. No way does Schenn plus a prospect plus picks get us weber. No way. Not even close. This isn't ea NHL game. If Rick Nash is going to get a boat load of players for the jackets what do you think weber will get? He is top three in dmen right now. He is a rare bread unlike a forward. You can't offer sheet weber if he is looking to leave the preds so that's not a choice. He would garner from Philly both coots and b Schenn plus cobourn plus picks/ bottom 6 players. I mean if carter got us what we got ,I can't even imagine what the preds will get.

[Spinorama]

I'll disagree with you on was him improving Carle. I posted stats in the Carle discussion previously that showed Carle actually had better stats without Pronger... Was hard to believe but that's why I posted it when I saw it.

I guess my point is if Pronger were fully healthy right now you'd still be better off giving the ice time to a developing player.

really? I guess perception goes a long way in judging things because by looking at the play of Carle (and not looking at stats) it really did seem like Carle was playing a better game, while not driving me nuts for not playing better D. I'll have to look for that post because I'm interested in seeing those stats.

Pronger was losing speed very quickly and in that I'll agree with you there as well. It was getting tough watching guys blow right by him in the transition. When he was in position, or didn't have to move very far to get into position he was strong and effective but his lack of speed was getting exploited a lot.

[mojo1917]

@Spinorama

I agree 99%. You said the same thing in that when you got him he was 85%... I just said faded and generalized it more. In no way did I mean useless. The only thing I'll disagree with you on was him improving Carle. I posted stats in the Carle discussion previously that showed Carle actually had better stats without Pronger... Was hard to believe but that's why I posted it when I saw it.

I guess my point is if Pronger were fully healthy right now you'd still be better off giving the ice time to a developing player.

this is an interesting exercise here, so let's explore a little. a healthy 37 year old Chris Pronger would probably still play on the power play because he still has a good & accurate shot, so second unit for sure maybe even first, he has a boatload of experience so even the best pker's wouldn't be able to exploit his lack of speed at the point often enough to warrant his removal from that special teams unit. I'm not sure if he would be on the PK , would the lack of mobility help there ? keeping the his side clear and covering / clearing using his reach he still may be effective but i'm not 100% on that, i think he's be dropped to second pairing for sure in 5 on 5 situations, maybe even 3rd because he has always skated funny ,now add slowly to that and i think top line talent in today's NHL would exploit that. but he would be effective against 3rd line players. For me i wonder given his personality would he accept a diminished role ? and i have a hard time thinking that the answer to that is yes. I think a healthy Chris Pronger might be a problem in the locker room, People cite his leadership, but when you're not the top pairing guy anymore does your voice still resonate ? or do the kids with the skill let your council go in one ear and out the other, i know that wouldn't sit well with CP. i'm not sure we'd be able to develop young guys on the blueline with CP around.

[Polaris922]

really? I guess perception goes a long way in judging things because by looking at the play of Carle (and not looking at stats) it really did seem like Carle was playing a better game, while not driving me nuts for not playing better D. I'll have to look for that post because I'm interested in seeing those stats. Pronger was losing speed very quickly and in that I'll agree with you there as well. It was getting tough watching guys blow right by him in the transition. When he was in position, or didn't have to move very far to get into position he was strong and effective but his lack of speed was getting exploited a lot.

Yeah I was a bit surprised by the stats too. I think you guys lost a good defenseman in Carle and I always wanted him for my own team, but I'd have bet dollars to donuts Pronger would have made him better because of Carle's lack of physical play. It just seemed like a good match of physical defense and strong puck movement. I think your defensive corps is stronger physically with the addition of Schenn but I think you lost a good offensive minded defenseman with Carle's departure. NOt to mention he was very highly ranked in shot blocks because of his stick checking.

[Polaris922]

@mojo1917

Well considered post. I think he would be relegated to 5th/6th D duties at best. Even on the PK you need a defenseman who can move laterally corner to net without needing a push from his friends. Yes he still has his shot, but he has to have the maneuverability to get a lane to shoot it, or at least to retrieve the puck and position before a pressuring forward poked it past him and is off to the races. I liked Pronger's grit and ability when he was younger, but I would say his first two years with you were his last really productive years. I honestly think your team already played him longer than they should have, but learning more about your guys' opinions of the Flyers' inability to develop in house defensemen and keep them makes that seem more understandable if that makes any sense.

[mojo1917]

@Polaris922

your post reads like Pronger has the Rickets or something, he's not a cripple, LOL.

i think he has the savvy and knows the game well enough where he can anticipate the play and moves well enough to side step a shot block attempt. He's slow but still ambulatory.

[jammer2]

@mojo1917 Plus, Pronger is the best in the league at utilizing his massive reach. He cuts off passing lanes just by knowing where to be and extending his stick. He can also cross check you from pretty far away....lol. He has not been very mobile for a few years now, he's adjusted quite well. Smart guy.