Voracek

[fan4ever]

Has anyone heard anything, or are they aware of why Voracek hasn't been signed yet?

Thanks for any info!

[AJgoal]

Probably because they have time. There's no rush to get him under contract because they can match anything anyone else offers. While if they have interest in UFAs, they need to move now. It's not something I would be terribly worried about.

[fan4ever]

Thanks for the insight!

I feel better now!

[PhilsFanDrew]

Probably because they have time. There's no rush to get him under contract because they can match anything anyone else offers. While if they have interest in UFAs, they need to move now. It's not something I would be terribly worried about.

Exactly. If no one is jumping out there to sign him to an offer sheet the Flyers can use that as leverage to sign him for less money.

[Spinorama]

Exactly. If no one is jumping out there to sign him to an offer sheet the Flyers can use that as leverage to sign him for less money.

great point! that'd be great if they could. Lock him up for less per year. I mean, I know they have plenty of cap space to give him more but they can save what they can and make next off season moves that much easier!

[mojo1917]

Meltzer wrote about this today and brings up some good but un-positive points.

such as, teddy purcell just signed for over 4 and quarter million for a medium term and that's the market comparison to Voras,

Purcell had 65 pts last year 16 better than Voras' best season Voras is 23, Purcell is 28 or something so Purcell is a finished product most likely, Voras not so much, Voras' agent may be thinking a JvR type deal which pays him more than Claude Giroux( 3.75 )can you pay a guy more than your best playre ? do you handcuff yourself for renegotiating Claude's deal ? I think Voras is due a raise and his numbers will eclipse Purcell's if he is healthy and plays on G's line 4 years at 4 or 3.75 seem right ?

anyway not as easy as it seems.

[PhilsFanDrew]

@mojo1917

I'd try to re-up Voracek for a 2 year deal for $7,250,000. He would still be young enough at 25/26 to cash in on a big money contract if his numbers would eventually warrant it. I also wouldn't be surprised mid season to see Giroux sign for a 10+ years big money contract. They did the same thing with Richards when he still had one more year left on a current contract.

[Podein25]

@mojo1917

I'd much rather have Voracek vs Purcell . Much higher upside IMO.

[radoran]

Meltzer wrote about this today and brings up some good but un-positive points.

such as, teddy purcell just signed for over 4 and quarter million for a medium term and that's the market comparison to Voras,

Purcell had 65 pts last year 16 better than Voras' best season Voras is 23, Purcell is 28 or something so Purcell is a finished product most likely, Voras not so much, Voras' agent may be thinking a JvR type deal which pays him more than Claude Giroux( 3.75 )can you pay a guy more than your best playre ? do you handcuff yourself for renegotiating Claude's deal ? I think Voras is due a raise and his numbers will eclipse Purcell's if he is healthy and plays on G's line 4 years at 4 or 3.75 seem right ?

anyway not as easy as it seems.

It's apples and oranges with Claude and Jake - their contracts have nothing to do with each other. Claude is gonna cash in big at the end of this contract and likely be making $3M more than Jake.

If you can sign Jake to a $4.25M 5 year deal, I'd do it. Limited NTC (can't be traded to Columbus - lol)

[doom88]

It's apples and oranges with Claude and Jake - their contracts have nothing to do with each other. Claude is gonna cash in big at the end of this contract and likely be making $3M more than Jake.

If you can sign Jake to a $4.25M 5 year deal, I'd do it. Limited NTC (can't be traded to Columbus - lol)

No more JVR deals. I want to see consistent production before paying. 3ish mil for 3ish years. Or whatever is fair for what he has done so far.

[Hexy27]

@doom88

You are probably going to end up paying more for Jake in the longrun then. Once a player proves a level of consistency then his price goes up. If he has a season or two scoring 20+ goals and 40+ points then he is going to command more than 3ish million per season.

I don't necessarily disagree with you. It is just the price you pay to keep that type of player around.

[doom88]

If he continues to improve, you're right. Might as well create an incentive for it to happen though.

[Spinorama]

@Hexy27

@doom88

I agree with both of you. having just come off a situation like JVRs, I'd be hesitant to give a player a deal that overpays him for accomplishments that haven't happened yet. Give the guy a deal that keeps him motivated towards earning that BIG paycheck. At the same time, with a player like Jake, it does feel a tad safer giving him deal now that while it looks like a little bit of an over payment now if he doesn't improve, could be a steal later if he ends up tearing it up. Tough call with this guy for sure. Given who this guy projects to play with, he might be willing to take a deal slightly more favorable to the Flyers. The one thing I don't want to see is anything too long.

I also like @PhilsFanDrew idea of a short deal that relatively nice. two years at just under 4 per? that's reasonable for both parties AND give both parties an opportunity to see what the deal is. If has a solid 2 years? he earns a nice bump. He doesn't? no biggie, didn't hurt too bad to begin with AND still keeps things relatively low in time for next off season moves.

[radoran]

Long term deals are a risk, there is no question.

You need to make a deal with two parties believing that they did well in the deal.

If you can convince Jake to take $3M for two years - go ahead. And if - it is an "if" - he is putting up consistent numbers, you'll be paying him more than Bobby Ryan makes now in two years - even if he isn't a 30-goal scorer (Ryan will make even more in his next deal...).

And, if you're Jake, why do you take that deal? Why not play for $2.25M this season and become a UFA?

Homer and the team (and apparently the Leafs) believe that JVR will be a value against his contract (which, let's recall "actually pays" him $2M next season) before the end of the deal. It made sense "to both sides" to sign a long-term deal (as it did with Crater and Richards).

If JVR is a consistent 25-30 goal scorer - and it is an "if" - then he's gong to be being paid $900K less than Ryan is making *now* for similar production. If a Teddy Purcell is worth $4M in the current environment, what would a JVR or a Jake be worth at the same production level four years from now? If you believe that Voracek is better than Purcell now, signing him long-term at a Purcell-level contract will be a real value as the contract goes on.

I don't think more than 5 years is a good idea - and it does depend on the player (Voracek at 23 is different than, say, Pronger at 35). I could easily do 4/$17M?

[King Knut]

Probably easier to trade his rights if he's an unsigned RFA.

Not that I think they would or should... but they need a goal scorer or two and this keeps their options open.

[Vanflyer]

do you handcuff yourself for renegotiating Claude's deal ?

I think you have two choices. He still has two more years of RFA eligibility I believe. So you could sign him now to an icrease similar how they paid Giroux (I am thinking 3.5m) for two years with the promise of getting an even better pay day two years from now if he keeps increasing his performance. Or you bite the bullet now and pay him 4M ish. JVR's contract was 4.25 for 6 years. I like the carrot approach. Give him a nice raise now to 3.5 for two years. Let him keep working for a bigger pay day.

[Vanflyer]

Probably easier to trade his rights if he's an unsigned RFA.

Not that I think they would or should... but they need a goal scorer or two and this keeps their options open.

Um, no, that is not going to happen. The Flyers are very high on him and he high on the Flyers. He has found a good home in his hockey career. While he does not light the lamp, he creates time and space for players that do and makes good reads and passes. He is 6'3 and 210 lbs. I have ZERO interest in trading his rights as a RFA.

He is going to be signed. Holmgren AND Jakubs agent said both sides have been talking and it will get done. Additionally, Jake did not file for arbitration, which is basically a good will / faith move.

[RonJeremy]

You have to figure Holmgren is actively shopping Voracek, as part of a deal for Bobby Ryan and thats why he isnt signed. Look at our roster, what players would Anaheim ask for?.... 2 of these 3 player is what they would want... Voracek ,Coots, Schenn. Im sure Homer would try and make it Read and Voracek, since he does not want to give up Coots and Schenn. So if there ever is a deal for Ryan, Voracek is gone for sure.

[ctid]

"So if there ever is a deal for Ryan, Voracek is gone for sure"

Agreed for sure.

I really really like Voracek, and I want to see how his production goes on a line with Giroux. However, Voracek + Read in a package for Ryan, I think I'd do right now.

I like Read as well, but we don't know if he has topped out (at 24 goals pr season) or is another Patrick Sharp in the waiting.

The smartest thing is to wait another season and stick to the guys we have and get a better understanding of what assets we actually have. One more year of Voracek and Read and we will know if:

• Voracek is capable of taking the next step
  
• Read is the real thing (i.e consistent 2nd line talent or a 3rd line two-way forward who can chip in)
  

If Read turns out to be a 3rd line two-way forward who can chip in with 15 goals a season, then we should have used him in a package for Ryan. But if he shows he can be a consistent 2nd line 50 point'ish guy we should have kept him.

Right now Voracek is a consistent 45-50 2nd line two-way forward 2nd line player, but if he can take that next step and start producing 60+ points and be more of a go-to guy rather than a supporting cast member, then we should keep him!

So including those two in a Ryan deal all comes down to "how do you think Voracek and Read will develop"

We know what the Flyers would get with Ryan. A go-to guy who consistently scores 30+ goals and a big body winger.

If Voracek and Read have topped out and this is the best they will become, we should do the trade. If they have more in thim (i.e. Voracek taking the next step and Read staying at his current level consistently) then we shouldn't do the trade IMO

[fanaticV3.0]

I am hoping because they aren't in a rush to overpay him the way they do 90% of the rest of their recent signings. I like the kid, but he's a roleplayer at this point. I don't want to see him get Leino money or anything.

[Spinorama]

I am hoping because they aren't in a rush to overpay him the way they do 90% of the rest of their recent signings. I like the kid, but he's a roleplayer at this point. I don't want to see him get Leino money or anything.

i agree. i liked his season and hope they resign him, but it is definitely too early to be throwing around big bucks, many years or both. give him a decent short contract and let him earn the big contract. one decent season isn't enough

[fanaticV3.0]

i agree. i liked his season and hope they resign him, but it is definitely too early to be throwing around big bucks, many years or both. give him a decent short contract and let him earn the big contract. one decent season isn't enough

I'm real curious to see what comes of him. I'm ok with a guy who scores in between 40-50 points a year and contributes others ways, but also curious what his ceiling could be.