The longer Nashville takes..... Is it a good or bad sign?

[Phillygrump]

That's my point though. Do they really have the right if a big market team weighs the front end if a contract so heavily it may not be possible for the team to refuse? THAT is what the NHL could go after if they wanted to. The right of refusal getting circumvented by front loading the contract. I dunno if they would, just saying that would be the approach I'd expect if they do.

Thats not circumventing anything. They played within the rules. If Pittsburgh did it you'd be raving with praise at a brilliant move.

Nashville should have locked up their players earlier and especially Weber.

[AJgoal]

@AndyS

I disagree. Without exaggeration, the future of the franchise hinges on what they do here and how they do it. With the possibility of a Gratton-style non match followed by an exchange of players for picks, I don't see it as odd that less than 72 hours later we don't have any news. And even if they intend to match, why would hurry? Take the full 7 days and keep Homer and his potential plans to look at Doan or Ryan in limbo, a measure of retribution for Homer trying to raid the franchise.

Sars, there's no keeping Holmgren in limbo on a trade for Ryan and a signing for Doan. Flyers have enough space under the offseason cap to sign Doan to what I would consider a reasonable contract, and if they were to trade for Ryan, they'd have to give up a roster player, which would clear cap space. I'd think Ryan is a plan B to Doan, anyway.

[AndyS]

@AndyS

I disagree. Without exaggeration, the future of the franchise hinges on what they do here and how they do it. With the possibility of a Gratton-style non match followed by an exchange of players for picks, I don't see it as odd that less than 72 hours later we don't have any news. And even if they intend to match, why would hurry? Take the full 7 days and keep Homer and his potential plans to look at Doan or Ryan in limbo, a measure of retribution for Homer trying to raid the franchise.

Let's also not forget that Poile declined to match on Stevens way back when, so he has own personal demons to wrestle with as well. We won't know anything until about 11 pm Wednesday, so we all need to take a deep breath.

Again, if they were going to keep him, they wouldn't have let him become an RFA in the first place.

Their intention has always been to trade Weber. They know that he doesn't want to be there.

[Phillygrump]

That's the only point I'm making. I'm very clear - this isn't "illegal" according to the rules. It's blatantly unfair if one isn't a Flyers fan.

I want to win because the team I favor builds a team that wins. Not "buys" a team that wins using loopholes and bonus structures based solely on having more money - making up for other disastaers that have flushed huge sums away.

I'll be at the parade and I'll still be wearing my orange and black - but this stinks for the game and for the league.

After witnessing the blatant bias and double standard that led to Pittsburgh being given a cup, I don't care if the Flyers buy one, win one, or make their own out of clay. Save the "high road in the NHL" oxymoron for someone else. This league is broken and messed up. I say do what you want.

[Phillygrump]

Again, if they were going to keep him, they wouldn't have let him become an RFA in the first place.

Their intention has always been to trade Weber. They know that he doesn't want to be there.

The more they play the victim and make the Flyers out to be the bad guys the better it is for getting Weber. Let us be the Orange Devil. That gives them an out in Nashville. They can play that role to their fans and save face.

Again I say that the Flyers didn't bully them into not spending to the cap on offensive talent to go along with that great back end.

The Flyers didn't bully Suter to Minnesota.

The Flyers didn't bully Weber into arbitration last year instead of signing him to a 3 year deal.

Nashville lost their players just as much as anyone stole them away.

Spare me the sob story.

[trevluk]

My guess? Read, Bourdon, Laughton & picks. (Although I'd like to see us keep Laughton as the eventual successor to Briere.)

I dont know if I like that deal. That is a lot to give up if they dont have to. Keep in mind that if Nashville matches, we could still get Weber next year in a trade if he really wants out of town and Nashville would have paid 20+million for a 1 year "rental".

[Lunatic]

After witnessing the blatant bias and double standard that led to Pittsburgh being given a cup, I don't care if the Flyers buy one, win one, or make their own out of clay. Save the "high road in the NHL" oxymoron for someone else. This league is broken and messed up. I say do what you want.

I could not agree more with these sentiments.

[trevluk]

the bonus money could be used to fleece small market teams at this stage.

If bonus money is guaranteed irrespective of a lockout, then the Flyers (or the Preds if they match) may have fleeced themselves in paying a player 14 million for a season that he never steps on the ice! (Admittedly, the Flyers can afford this way more than the Preds but that is still a tough pill to swallow.)

[sarsippius]

Again, if they were going to keep him, they wouldn't have let him become an RFA in the first place.

Their intention has always been to trade Weber. They know that he doesn't want to be there.

You may be right. I hope you ARE right. We'll see. But the simple fact that they didn't immediately match does not mean they won't. Thats all I'm saying. My Negadelphia tendencies won't let me believe he's a Flyer unless and until it actually happens.

[AJgoal]

You may be right. I hope you ARE right. We'll see. But the simple fact that they didn't immediately match does not mean they won't. Thats all I'm saying. My Negadelphia tendencies won't let me believe he's a Flyer unless and until it actually happens.

I agree. I've said it in a few places, I think that the wait means that they'd prefer not to take on that contract, not necessarily that they won't.

[Polaris922]

Thats not circumventing anything. They played within the rules. If Pittsburgh did it you'd be raving with praise at a brilliant move.

Nashville should have locked up their players earlier and especially Weber.

It's not breaking the rules, it's circumventing the intent behind RFA and the right to match. And I would NOT like the Pens doing that to another small market, so there you're mistaken. I agree Nashville should have locked him up sooner, but I don't think anyone anticipated bonus' being used this way. Again kudos to and shame on Holmgren at the same time. Sorry Grump... I just don't like this in the league from ANY team, not just yours.

[sarsippius]

Sars, there's no keeping Holmgren in limbo on a trade for Ryan and a signing for Doan. Flyers have enough space under the offseason cap to sign Doan to what I would consider a reasonable contract, and if they were to trade for Ryan, they'd have to give up a roster player, which would clear cap space. I'd think Ryan is a plan B to Doan, anyway.

Under the off-season cap yes. That doesn't mean you don't have to consider how you're going to get under the cap come roster cut down time, and that that doesn't enter into a GM's thinking when he's deciding how much he can afford to throw at a guy like Doan without having to dump salary ala Simon Gange. Agreed on Ryan, the math works out there without much hand wringing.

The point I was addressing was the statement that they didn't immediately match, hence they aren't going to. I still say there are plenty of reasons that logic doesn't hold up.

[AJgoal]

Actually, I broke this down elsewhere, but the Flyers have less off-season room than they will have once the season starts. So if it fits under the offseason cap, it will fit under the regular season cap.

[jackhole]

You want to call this bullying OK, but lets not just piss on 4 1st picks like they are nothing (late round or not) There are only a small handful of players in the league that I would even consider that a fair swap for to begin with. So Nashville will not be getting "fleeced" in any way here. They could very well put together a championship team of mostly low cost entry level contracts within a 3-5 year window with all the early picks they'd have. Weber could get hurt, and Philly would be the ones who got "fleeced."

Plus, if you are going to tender an offersheet to another teams player, than you must bowl them over with a contract that would cause them to seriously weigh their options. Otherwise what's the point, if they will simply be able to match it?

There is the game on the ice, and the game off the ice. The rules are the rules, until they change, it is what it is.

[Mad Dog]

It's not breaking the rules, it's circumventing the intent behind RFA and the right to match. And I would NOT like the Pens doing that to another small market, so there you're mistaken. I agree Nashville should have locked him up sooner, but I don't think anyone anticipated bonus' being used this way. Again kudos to and shame on Holmgren at the same time. Sorry Grump... I just don't like this in the league from ANY team, not just yours.

Why shame on Holmgren? Shame on those who created the rules that lead to disadvanataging small market franchices. But I just don't see why teams who sign players to offer sheets should be ashamed.

Rules are rules... They are for everybody. You are trying to make more out of this than there really is.

[radoran]

Why shame on Holmgren? Shame on those who created the rules that lead to disadvanataging small market franchices. But I just don't see why teams who sign players to offer sheets should be ashamed.

Rules are rules... They are for everybody. You are trying to make more out of this than there really is.

Who do you think " created the rules that lead to disadvanataging small market franchices."

Was Nashville arguing that they have to have the right to screw over other small market teams?

No. It was the big market teams with the $86B corporations behind them that wanted to be able to do that.

They don't want a level playing field - they want one tilted in their direction.

How long do you want to watch a game that's clearly tilted? Because I don't watch the NBA any more and MLB is wearing thin as well...

[Mad Dog]

@radoran

I don't disagree with anything you said. And I deslike these rules too.... But GM's are just employees of their owners. I just don't see how and why Homlgren should be put to shame for extending this offer sheet. It's not *his* fault that his employer just happens to be reacher than the other.

[radoran]

@radoran

I don't disagree with anything you said. And I deslike these rules too.... But GM's are just employees of their owners. I just don't see how and why Homlgren should be put to shame for extending this offer sheet. It's not *his* fault that his employer just happens to be reacher than the other.

I think Polaris' point was it was credit to or shame on depending on your point of view.

Being a bully isn't something to be proud of. Showing you can take something simply because you have more money rightnow isn't either.

Extending an offer sheet is one thing. Delibertately being a **** about it is something else.

I expect the Preds to match, actually. And then Poile will trade Weber to the Rangers. Or Penguins.

[AndyS]

The Flyers didn't bully Weber into arbitration last year instead of signing him to a 3 year deal.

Exactly. They could have signed him to a very manageable 3-year contract & chose NOT to do so because they assumed that they would just trade him.

Oops.

In a sense, they made a similar mistake to the one Columbus is making with the Nash trade - trying to get too much from a contender.

[AndyS]

I think Polaris' point was it was credit to or shame on depending on your point of view.

Being a bully isn't something to be proud of. Showing you can take something simply because you have more money rightnow isn't either.

Extending an offer sheet is one thing. Delibertately being a **** about it is something else.

I expect the Preds to match, actually. And then Poile will trade Weber to the Rangers. Or Penguins.

They can't trade him until after the first year of the new contract, so they'd be on the hook for a HUGE chunk of change. Not happening.

[AndyS]

Why shame on Holmgren? Shame on those who created the rules that lead to disadvanataging small market franchices. But I just don't see why teams who sign players to offer sheets should be ashamed.

Rules are rules... They are for everybody. You are trying to make more out of this than there really is.

Homer has done nothing wrong. He is supposed to (within the rules) put his team in the best position to win.

He is doing exactly that.

Poile is not. Shame on HIM (not Homer).

[jackhole]

I know there is this unwritten rule that is anti-offersheets. I think if you really want to sign a player, its OK, perhaps less so if you're trying to drive up the price for your rivals.

[mojo1917]

to this point i've been in the Dave Poile is a good GM camp because of his scouting and player development under a tight budget. He has iced a competitive team that is not that fun to watch but does win.

however, he ****ed up big time with Suter and Weber, neither of these franchise players should have been in a position where they are looking to "test the market" . i realize he was hamstrung for years by owners unwilling to spend money to bring in marquee players and retain their own players. but once he was given the green light to improve the team for the playoff run he made moves for... paul gaustad, and hal gil . i totally get gaustad but not gil especially when the team was having trouble scoring points.

he's looked not ready for the deep end of the pool for making the necessary moves to bring a conference championship and contending for the cup.

i think if you're suter and weber you see those minor moves for your stretch drive when you have a need and maybe you do question the organization's commitment to winning.

then if you're suter or weber and you see your buddy taken to arbitration and then compared to dustin fing byflugein to sign him on the cheap maybe that stings a little too , and gets you to thinking the grass may be greener else where.

plus the BS in the playoffs surrounding the Russian chodes chasing skirts on game night and the way that was handled was questionable.

all i'm saying is he's not in a position of strength with weber or homer , and it's 95% on him, if hockey is ruined in Nashville he deserves much of the blame for the amateurish way he's handled these two players.

i hope homer f's him with no foreplay.

[doom88]

The more they play the victim and make the Flyers out to be the bad guys the better it is for getting Weber. Let us be the Orange Devil. That gives them an out in Nashville. They can play that role to their fans and save face.

Again I say that the Flyers didn't bully them into not spending to the cap on offensive talent to go along with that great back end.

The Flyers didn't bully Suter to Minnesota.

The Flyers didn't bully Weber into arbitration last year instead of signing him to a 3 year deal.

Nashville lost their players just as much as anyone stole them away.

Spare me the sob story.

Very good points, thank you for showing Nsh as something other than a woe is me sad story. They absolutely have their issues, then tried to go toe to toe with a bigger fish, and now are getting into a little trouble.

[doom88]

@mojo1917

And never calls him again?