The longer Nashville takes..... Is it a good or bad sign?

[radoran]

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/08/20/sports/tampa-bay-was-too-late-in-trying-to-trade-gratton-nhl-commissioner-rules.html

League voided the trade as the offer sheet - the fax - was ruled as received before the trade was completed.

Once the offer sheet is signed and filed, the rights are not Tampa's to trade.

Then the discussion moves on to whether or not the Flyers could just give Tampa the picks.

Another possibility was suggested yesterday by Bob Clarke, the Flyers' general manager, who said his team might still make a deal with Tampa for Gratton. In it, the Lightning would agree not to match his offer for Gratton and would trade the draft choices back to Philadelphia, accepting some other compensation.

''If we can make a trade, we will,'' Clarke said. ''If not, we'll just live with the offer sheet and see what happens.''

I could see Homer making that exact same statement today.

There was, I can easily recall, *tremendous* pressure from the League to not leave the fledgling Lightning team high and dry with their apparent "star" being ripped away from them by a big, bad big city club.

The parallels are, quite frankly, staggering (aside from the voided trade, which was immaterial to the final trade): small market team, new franchise in a market they are trying to "grow", rising "star" in the league, entering his prime, big signing bonus specifically designed so the team can't match, team trying to deal the player, at fault for not being able to sign him long term...

What's NOT the same?

Well, let's hope the outcome...

[AJgoal]

For what it's worth, the Gratton "precedent" could easily have been invoked here. It was a late night fax that may or may not have arrived at the correct time and place that was at issue, which was the 11:59 electronic league filing of it's day. The Flyers were cleared but virtually forced to make the trade. Not the precedent you really want to be citing here.

You brought up the fax. I understand that the trade was done in order to help out the Lightning, but the league didn't void the offer sheet. My belief is that they cannot and will not do that here, and that is all I have ever been arguing, since that seems to be a popular theory on the internets.

[TedZep]

To Nashville: sucks to be broke, doesn't it?

What hockey player growing up dreams of playing in Tennessee? Not many, I would guess. It's probably a very nice place to grow talent for other teams, like the Wild and the Flyers. Nothing wrong with that.

[radoran]

You brought up the fax. I understand that the trade was done in order to help out the Lightning, but the league didn't void the offer sheet. My belief is that they cannot and will not do that here, and that is all I have ever been arguing, since that seems to be a popular theory on the internets.

I was saying that the late night fax is the equivalent of the 11:59 electronic filing - that's all.

I've mentioned the possibility in the shoutbox, but I don't think I've posted it. Generally mentioning in the "not likely to happen" scenario.

The League didn't void the offer sheet - which is yet another similarity.

The question is, will the Flyers need to part with assets in replacement of some, none or all of the draft picks. Again, in the Gratton deal there was tremendos pressure to do so - for all of the reasons listed.

[radoran]

To Nashville: sucks to be broke, doesn't it?

What hockey player growing up dreams of playing in Tennessee? Not many, I would guess. It's probably a very nice place to grow talent for other teams, like the Wild and the Flyers. Nothing wrong with that.

Except that they were committed to paying Weber $7.5M this season already and could afford to pay Weber $7.8M if they wanted to.

That's not exactly "broke" is it?

[AJgoal]

I don't think the league needs to put pressure on in this case. I think the Flyers genuinely want Weber, and that they are willing to trade to make it happen. But the two GMs are playing a game of poker with eachother, each with a couple strong cards.

[Polaris922]

But it's NOT circumventing the cap. Brad Richards made 20 million in a 364 day period. The league ruled that that was acceptable, even though it was greater than 20% of the cap. This is no different.

Richards did it sure. But he wasn't an RFA with his current franchise getting screwed by the bigger money, so nobody would take note of it. Simple change the first year no trade restriction to a "shall not be traded until July 1st of the following year" and you eliminate the double standard for the current team.

[Bakanekimiwa]

@AnthonySan37: A lot of people asking me how I feel about #WeberWatch. My answer: the longer this goes on, the better for the #Flyers.

[ruxpin]

Each of those situations would be the precedent. Where have they interpreted each one differently later down the road?

LMAO. That actually made me smile.

"Wait! You didn't follow precedent!"

"Oh no. This IS the precedent!"

[Polaris922]

But since the NHL season runs from July 1st to June 30th the following year, it wouldn't violate the single season max salary. Weber would get $13 million bonus this wednesday the 25th which would be part of his max salary for 2012/13 season and $13 million on July 1st next year which would be considered part of his 2013/14 max salary. That's where the NHL might have to change the wording regarding these types of bonuses, maybe it will have to state that the day you sign the contract, your bonus portion of the contract can't be paid for another 365 days from the day you sign.

Thank you. That was part of my point. Two separate definitions for where the time deadlines are is what's screwing the pooch here. If bonus are paid July 1st to note the start of the next season, the team should have the right to trade on July 1st as well, rather than a full 365 days after the matching of the offer sheet.

[jammer2]

I think this bonus thing should be excluded from the next CBA. It's to our advantage. Let Comcast throw their money at whoever they wish. If the franchise can't afford it, they should not be playing with the big boys anyways. The NHLPA will not allow contraction...just a new city will get a new chance. Let Comcast piss all over whoever they want!!!

[doom88]

Why fix the cap when the real problem is revenue? Get a legit TV deal, nationally, that promotes and pays. And keep Bob Costas away from it.

People seem to buy into marketing very easily nowadays (me *trying* to be nice). Maybe a little TV and internet saturation is necessary to expand the NHL brand?

[jackhole]

Get a legit TV deal

Isn't there supposed to be a new and better TV deal upcoming that will pressure owners to avoid a lockout?

[doom88]

New and better, I think, but that's also not saying much.

[radoran]

I think this bonus thing should be excluded from the next CBA. It's to our advantage. Let Comcast throw their money at whoever they wish. If the franchise can't afford it, they should not be playing with the big boys anyways. The NHLPA will not allow contraction...just a new city will get a new chance. Let Comcast piss all over whoever they want!!!

Then let's just put the Cup up for bid.

You even acknowledge that it's an advantage for a handful of clubs.

That's not a "league" - that's the six Globetrotters and 24 Generals.

[radoran]

Why fix the cap when the real problem is revenue? Get a legit TV deal, nationally, that promotes and pays. And keep Bob Costas away from it.

People seem to buy into marketing very easily nowadays (me *trying* to be nice). Maybe a little TV and internet saturation is necessary to expand the NHL brand?

Hi - this is Comcast - that company you know and love putting up the big bucks to sign Shea Weber for your beloved Flyers.

We're also the ones who own a little network called "NBC" and have created a new network we know you love called NBCSports.

We're pretty influential in the NHL and are kind of disappointed that you think we're not interested in promoting and paying for our product.

We're also pretty sure we're gonna keep the NHL broadcasting on NBC. Just call it a hunch.

Ciao, Kabletown

[jammer2]

@radoran "That's not a "league" - that's the six Globetrotters and 24 Generals."

Well, the Leafs won all their cups with a 6 team league, it does help even up the odds a bit

[radoran]

@radoran "That's not a "league" - that's the six Globetrotters and 24 Generals."

Well, the Leafs won all their cups with a 6 team league, it does help even up the odds a bit

You've always wanted to be a Leaf...

I'm sorry. I'm really very sorry. You kinda forced me to say that.

[doom88]

Hi - this is Comcast - that company you know and love putting up the big bucks to sign Shea Weber for your beloved Flyers.

We're also the ones who own a little network called "NBC" and have created a new network we know you love called NBCSports.

We're pretty influential in the NHL and are kind of disappointed that you think we're not interested in promoting and paying for our product.

We're also pretty sure we're gonna keep the NHL broadcasting on NBC. Just call it a hunch.

Ciao, Kabletown

All true, but NBC spends more time marketing golf than hockey. And, they put Bob Costas on TV. Voluntarily.

I'm talking NBA, MLB, NFL, even NASCAR saturation. Don't just get word out, bombard. Keep people up to date on FA, the draft, OV's love boat scandals in far away countries, etc. Cross advertise more.

They better find a way to cross advertise during the Olympics. And the NHL better have a season...

[radoran]

All true, but NBC spends more time marketing golf than hockey. And, they put Bob Costas on TV. Voluntarily.

I'm talking NBA, MLB, NFL, even NASCAR saturation. Don't just get word out, bombard. Keep people up to date on FA, the draft, OV's love boat scandals in far away countries, etc. Cross advertise more.

They better find a way to cross advertise during the Olympics. And the NHL better have a season...

Hey, man - preaching to the choir. But Comcast is as Comcast does. They could make NBC be NHL all the time - if they wanted to.

[doom88]

Hey, man - preaching to the choir. But Comcast is as Comcast does. They could make NBC be NHL all the time - if they wanted to.

That wouldn't make money. They need broad programming to bring in different target audiences, I get that. But once they're in, let them know about some of the other products they might enjoy, and feature the NHL. Maybe put Kathryn Tappen in on more commercials? More game action highlight commercials like the NFL utilizes (deep pass, stiff arm, spin, touchdown, spike, I like old spice deodorant).

I know it isn't simple, but it can't possibly be as hard as they make it out to be for themselves. Just ask Bud Light to make a few commercials, I'm sure they can whip up seven good ones in as many days.

[jammer2]

@radoran "You've always wanted to be a Leaf..."

ha ha...that's so far below the belt I need ACL surgery!! Alas, saved by the handy sarcasm ninja!

[JackStraw]

Except that they were committed to paying Weber $7.5M this season already and could afford to pay Weber $7.8M if they wanted to.

That's not exactly "broke" is it?

Maybe not exactly broke, but not exactly flush with cash either:

"The Predators are losing money and trying to find investors to pump in about $25 million to shore up the team's finances. In early 2011 the team secured a $75 million credit facility led by Regions Bank to replace the $75 million loan from CIT Group used to finance the purchase of the team. The team has plans to renovate 15-year old Bridgestone Arena by adding a Fan Zone on the upper concourse and upgrading 72 suites. The Predators have a lot of debt and have been in the bottom-third of the league in attendance for six consecutive seasons."

http://www.forbes.com/teams/nashville-predators/

[radoran]

Maybe not exactly broke, but not exactly flush with cash either:

"The Predators are losing money and trying to find investors to pump in about $25 million to shore up the team's finances. In early 2011 the team secured a $75 million credit facility led by Regions Bank to replace the $75 million loan from CIT Group used to finance the purchase of the team. The team has plans to renovate 15-year old Bridgestone Arena by adding a Fan Zone on the upper concourse and upgrading 72 suites. The Predators have a lot of debt and have been in the bottom-third of the league in attendance for six consecutive seasons."

http://www.forbes.co...ille-predators/

And they get local tax money as well.

They have built up a bit of a fanbase, but it does remain a hard sell. They did get up to 97.5% capacity last season, which isn't included in these numbers and it had been growing.

That said, I really don't give the hind quarters of a rodent whether or not there's hockey in Nashville.

[Dynamo 47]

I think Nashville is simply talking trade with the Flyers at this point. I think they know that matching the offer will hurt financially and likely lead to Weber demanding a trade after the year period so they are trying to save face and make a trade.

Nashville is likely demanding Schenn or Couterier as part of the deal which Homer will not do. The rumors are that Homer tried to acquire Weber and frustrated said either we make a deal or I will make him an offer you will have trouble matching.

I think Homer stuck to his guns about not giving up Schenn or Couts then and he wont now.

I expect to hear an announcement tomorrow (WED) that the Flyers and Nashville have made a trade. I would not be surprised if it is Jake, two firsts and one of Coburn, Mez, or Grossman.