Mezz Out Indefintiely - Achillies

[behnam]

I still think we have a good team. We won't be able to beat Rangers, but still good enough to be competitive. It would be a mistake to trade the future first round for a quick fix.

[Polaris922]

Both players will be missed.

Metzaros is a superior player to Carle in every facet of the game, save for skating, now I realize that's an important one but I was okay with Carle's departure at the cap hit and contract he signed.

So while I agree we might be surprised by a young guy, I strenuously disagree with your Carle assessment.

And we'll continue to disagree on that comparison, but we've beaten the Carle issue to death in other topics so... I offer you another lance, sir!

[Bertmega]

BEHOLD RANDY! Best NHL blue liner ever......

[Howie58]

Greetings:

I think this "event" will raise questions about the "untouchables" in the franchise. Other than Giroux and our current D-men (even our prospects), I have to wonder who would be "sacrificed" for a Dan Boyle or whomever? Would we ask Hartnell to waive the NTC? Would we say good-bye to Read? I don't know but the Brains Trust may be pondering that as we speak...but I still see an overseas "pickup" as a possibility....

Best,

Howie

[Bertmega]

@Howie58

I agree with you there Howie. Our untouchables are not so untouchable any longer given the circumstances. I know as fans we are to remain optimistic; however, the reality sets in that you cannot construct a winning team with spare parts.

Teams are not going to want the picks, or the Briere's of the world. We may have to sacrifice Schenn or Simmonds, or even Couturier to get what the defense needs.

Other case is let it ride and hope for the best. However, winging it is not in Ed Snider's vocabulary.

[radoran]

@Howie58

I agree with you there Howie. Our untouchables are not so untouchable any longer given the circumstances. I know as fans we are to remain optimistic; however, the reality sets in that you cannot construct a winning team with spare parts.

Teams are not going to want the picks, or the Briere's of the world. We may have to sacrifice Schenn or Simmonds, or even Couturier to get what the defense needs.

Other case is let it ride and hope for the best. However, winging it is not in Ed Snider's vocabulary.

Losing BSchenn, Simmonds or Couturier to improve the defense this year will hurt the Flyers for years to come. Go into the season with what they have. See how what you have performs. Make decisions based on what you see.

I don't want another Williams for Markov situation which leaves us all with the good feelings of a playoff run that ends again with no Cup.

Moving any of those three - moving any real, significant assets at all, actually - for a defenseman will not result in a "Cup winning" move. We're already had significant discussion abot "where will the scoring come from" and looking to deal 20-goal scorers (projecting) for defensive help is, IMO, counterproductive.

[Podein25]

We may have to sacrifice Schenn or Simmonds, or even Couturier to get what the defense needs.

This is the kind of thinking that sees us giving up too much to get the latest savior. I'm against it.

[Bertmega]

@radoran

While I agree that the Flyers brass should not ship out any youth for a d-man, it is not out of the realm of possibilities.

If any of the previously mentioned are to be traded; I would imagine it is not for a stopgap defender, rather a franchise defender.

In any case, no matter what shade of orange the glasses are, life is not so rosy for the Flyers blueline. In fact, it is getting more dismal by the minute. And as fans we may have to accept the reality that other teams are going to demand budding vs. fading stars when talking trades.

I am not a pessimistic fan by any stretch, but I do not feel comfortable with the current make up of our defensive roster.

[AJgoal]

@Bertmega - I feel very comfortable with the makeup of the defensive roster, not because I think it is fine by any stretch, but because I feel that making moves to solidify it will only end up being lateral or backwards given what we would need to give up. I'm comfortable in that I am fairly certain we will not get a Cup this year, and that trying to get one will tear out too much of the young core of the team. Unless some youngsters really step up, this team in no way can make a serious run at the cup. It's a shame that it will end up that way in what is now very likely to be Timonen's last season here. But I now see the Flyers as sellers at the deadline, not buyers. And with how young the majority of the team is, that might not be a bad thing.

[Bertmega]

@AJgoal

Though I agree with most of what you say. Why is it every year people say: "This is not their year", or "I do not expect a cup this year"? I don't get that logic. I also think that management may think differently as well; i.e., Shea Webber, Ryan Sutter, Zach Parise, etc.

I know we just need to see where the chips fall in October, but as of now I am not sold on the defense one bit. Believe me, I am in the see where the chips fall camp, and I hope to eat a healthy serving of crow and see our young guns develop. I just feel that it will be a man in a very high position (cough, cough Snider), that see that the Flyers trade away tomorrow to fill seats today.

Edited August 8, 2012 by Bertmega

[JackStraw]

Metzaros is a superior player to Carle in every facet of the game, save for skating, now I realize that's an important one but I was okay with Carle's departure at the cap hit and contract he signed.

Have to strongly disagree with you there. Besides skating, Carle is a far better "offensive defenseman" than Mez in every way other than shooting. And he's probably closer to Mez defensively than a lot of Flyers fans would like to admit. That said, Mez is a solid NHL defenseman with decent ability at both ends. This is a serious loss.

[AJgoal]

@Bertmega - There are years I expect them to challenge for the cup, and years I don't, based on a realistic evaluation of the team. I want them to win the cup every year, but I also understand that even under the best of circumstances, it's just not possible. I thought the team had a shot before Meszaros went down to make noise - and that's what management saw as well when they made the offers to Weber, Parise, and Suter. Now, unless either he or Pronger is able to come back and make a serious impact, I doubt that they can - changes in personnel, changes in expectations. There's nobody out there as a UFA that will turn around the defense. Anyone that could do it via trade will impact the ability of the offense to perform. I think that even the really high ups in the organization will realize that right now, there are no realistic moves that can be made to really make the team better.

[mojo1917]

@JackStraw

well you know i'm not a Carle hater, I know we'll miss him and all the things he does well, i just never saw him as having traditional top pairing abilities,but i did see prolonged stretches of play from Metzaros where I thought he did. I like his shot, i thought he passed well, I liked that he was willing to bring the pain, to me he was thisclose to being the man before he got hurt.

If it winds up that we have to rely on some young guys I hope the fanbase doesn't cannibalize them, all these guys are going to make mistakes, and to expect them to jump into the NHL and not f up is unrealistic, this will be a year that will test our patience , but if the roster remains largely intact it will be a year we can point to where guy X really got his act together and the team's mettle was forged in adversity.

i really hope we're not looking to deal a good young guy for Dan Boyle...

[canoli]

Great so we're going to trade away Brayden Schenn or Matt Read, Sean Couturier - one, both or all 3 + picks - so we can have Dan Boyle and his ~$7 million cap hit.

Screw that, get Colaicavo or Rozsival - if the urge to upgrade is that irresistible. Me I'd stand pat and see what the season brings. Our goalies both suck anyway so all of this is just a sideshow. Really. Does anyone think Bryzgalov is suddenly "great" this coming year - consistently I mean? Enough that he'll inspire confidence in his teammates and fear in the opposition? I don't. And when he's resting we have the fabulous fantastic Michael Leighton to back him up.

Yeah...D is not our big concern. Even though losing Mez sucks he's been injured more than he's been healthy so it's not like a huge surprise he's out again.

Frankly I'm psyched to see Gus and MAB and Manning play some big minutes.

None of it matters anyway considering we have one of the worst goaltending tandems in the NHL. Every time I remember we have Michael Leighton backing up Ilya Bryzgalov...

[Lindbergh31]

Losing BSchenn, Simmonds or Couturier to improve the defense this year will hurt the Flyers for years to come. Go into the season with what they have. See how what you have performs. Make decisions based on what you see.

I don't want another Williams for Markov situation which leaves us all with the good feelings of a playoff run that ends again with no Cup.

Moving any of those three - moving any real, significant assets at all, actually - for a defenseman will not result in a "Cup winning" move. We're already had significant discussion abot "where will the scoring come from" and looking to deal 20-goal scorers (projecting) for defensive help is, IMO, counterproductive.

Last year Holmgren decided to move Richards and Carter to clear space to sign Bryzgalov and get youth back, he accomplished that and he refused to trade one of those highly-touted young players to land Shea Weber. So it would be pretty stupid of him to trade one of those players now just for a quick fix on D. As others have pointed out, why not sign an UFA defenseman to a one year deal and see how things shake out during the year. He might find one of our own young defenseman might take the opportunity and step up to the challenge. As a fan, I'm tired of seeing these quick fix trades that end up amounting to nothing in the long run. Stay on the youth course, give them lots of playing time and see what happens. Bryzgalov is actually going have to earn his paycheque this year and who knows what will happen with him.

[Bertmega]

@AJgoal

I agree

If Schenn becomes what he was expected to be and MAB steps up big, we may be ok. Bryz could have a monster year (not holding my breath, but it is possible).

[sarsippius]

Chiming in a bit late here, but no way does it make sense to trade youth for a schlub to fill in for a year. It's not like a Cup was in reach and we lost a game changing defenseman....no offense to Mez. I keep saying it, this year is all about separating the men from the boys in this large group of youngsters. Look at this as opportunity to do even more of it. Bourdon Gus and Manning get more playing time, that's a good thing.

The sooner you accept that this isn't a Cup run year, the sooner you'll be able to enjoy watching these guys develop. Homer will have more answers when goes into next summer.

[idahophilly]

Glass is half full eh? Sounds good to me. Worst case scenerio is our sophomores get another year of experience and we are likely to make the playoffs regardless. Once you make the dance all bets are off.

[radoran]

@radoran

While I agree that the Flyers brass should not ship out any youth for a d-man, it is not out of the realm of possibilities.

If any of the previously mentioned are to be traded; I would imagine it is not for a stopgap defender, rather a franchise defender.

In any case, no matter what shade of orange the glasses are, life is not so rosy for the Flyers blueline. In fact, it is getting more dismal by the minute. And as fans we may have to accept the reality that other teams are going to demand budding vs. fading stars when talking trades.

I am not a pessimistic fan by any stretch, but I do not feel comfortable with the current make up of our defensive roster.

Anything is within the realm of possibilities where the Flyers are concerned.

But, as has been pointed out, they declined to trade those players when they had a real, actual, potential franchise defender in Weber - and now there are those suggesting a trade for 36-year-old Dan Boyle... I'd be happy to react to another potential trade if one comes up.

I'm not "comfortable" with the current roster - and like many I felt there were problems before they lost Meszaros. But I just don't see anything that can make it *that much better* by trading Schenn/Simmonds/Couturier.

Losing tangible, valuable long-term assets to patch a short term problem is how this franchise has worked for the past 20 years - if not longer.

I don't need to remind anyone of the track record.

Sign Coliacovo/Roszival/whoever and if something happens like Ottawa wants to deal Karlsson, answer the phone.

[JackStraw]

i really hope we're not looking to deal a good young guy for Dan Boyle...

Amen to that.

Bourdon's skill set most closely resembles Meszaros', so I think (hope) he will get a good opportunity to see what he can do.

Edited August 8, 2012 by JackStraw

[sarsippius]

Right on Idaho, it may be tough to watch at times but ya gotta enjoy the ride!

[Bertmega]

@sarsippius

You're right. They shouldn't even show up at all this year. Why bother? They should just give the cup to the best on paper roster right now.

^^^^insert sarcasm font^^^^

Though I hate to admit that in all likelihood, you are probably right, it is a little premature to say that they are not going to compete for a cup.

This time last year who would have imagined:

1) Carter and Richards reunited

2) The Coyotes going to the WCF

3) The Kings going, winning, and playing the Devils

4) The Sabres not winning the Presidents Cup (Rick Bashing)

5) Couturier playing in 77 games for the big club

A lot of questions unfold as the season progresses. Though I am not a fan of the Flyers roster on paper, maybe we'll get a big surprise in the end. Not likely, but not out of the realm of possibilities.

Stay positive.

[idahophilly]

Right on Idaho, it may be tough to watch at times but ya gotta enjoy the ride!

Well, I started another thread about all this but I'll say this: I hate to use the word rebuilding because it isn't quite accurate for the Flyers situation. I'll use a cooking analogy... This is a fine sauce that needs to simmer for an hour and let the flavors blend and reduce...

[Bertmega]

@radoran, I agree giving up young assets stinks of the Bobby Clarke days and never should be done. I just fear that there is a panic move coming from the man running the show (Ed Snider).

Of the UFAs

Eminger: no, please Lord NO!

Foster: Great shot, but plays small

Clark: I like him, a little old, but mobile and a good shot blocker

Spacek: A little old and injury prone, but gets the job done

Hannan: I like him the best, but fear his inability to put up points may hurt in the long run

Barker: pass, let some other team with a lot of depth sign him as a reclamation project

Rozsival: I am worried that he will want upwards of 5mm a year

Colaiacovo: has some nice puck moving skills. He would be my #2 choice.

There you have it, there is still some depth that can help if the cost is right. I have always been a fan of Hannan. I like his game, his discipline and think he would look good paired with MAB.

[Mad Dog]

None of it matters anyway considering we have one of the worst goaltending tandems in the NHL. Every time I remember we have Michael Leighton backing up Ilya Bryzgalov...

Yep. Which is why it would be criminally insane to trade the assets to add a defenseman. What will that accomplish? As long as Bryzgalov continues being an inconsistent, unreliable, shaky, frustarting player that he was most of the last year, no player in the world will make a difference. If, on the other hand, he comes back and plays with any semblance to the goalie the Flyers hoped they signed last summer, this defensive corps should be good enough to at least not cost the Flyers games.