rickmac19 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Like the Flyers he does, as he continues to hand out contract extensions like an usher hands out programs...Can you think of a Flyers player not under a significant deal?I hope Jagr's words prove prophetic, that this team works very well together, because they seemingly will stay together. Ironically, the Flyers have no top d-man after this year without Timonen extended. I hope all of this does not send negative messages to him. I also hope he does not end up in the "Gagne vortex," where he wants the same or more when his value clearly hovers at about half of his current earnings... If it's easier to ask forgiveness later, isn't it time to lock up "The Franchise" for a very long time, before someone offer sheets him with three rooms at Fort Knox and half the state of Montana?I dunno. I do like all of those players, but it seems like the Flyers lost flexibility if someone "falls down," ...err, "tanks." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzFlyer Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 @billmeltzerKimmo Timonen is only major potential UFA next summer for Flyers. Others are Fedotenko, Lilja, Shelley and Leighton. No major 2013 RFAs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 ronically, the Flyers have no top d-man after this year without Timonen extended. Coburn isn't a top D-man? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickmac19 Posted August 21, 2012 Author Share Posted August 21, 2012 I would love to classify Coburn as a 1A defender, as he is one of my favorite Flyers. However, I see Timonen closer to that now than Coburn. If that flip-flops this year, I would love to hear of Coburn considered as one of the 10-15 best in the NHL. Whatever shakes out, the situation becomes delicate; unless Timonen and the Flyers communicate openly and negotiate in super-good faith and realistically, Timonen could play somewhere after this year. At the right price, he works great, but if he wants more or as long as Hartbreaker just got, like I said, it's deja vu alll over again with the Gagne vortex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 @rickmac19 To me, it's just plain ol' common sense, for every year you wait to lock up a player, his price goes up 10-20 per cent based on the outrageous RFA and UFA markets. The deal Harts got for 4.7 this year would have cost them 5.5 or 6 mill next year. Sure, you can let him go, but then you face the problem of replacing the goals on the trade or UFA market, it's just easier to deal with a guy you already know. You know he's a good worker, good teammate and good for the community. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJgoal Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 The Flyers top 9 are now under contract for the next two seasons. Next season you can guarantee they'll be looking to do the same thing with Giroux, Schenn, and Read. Probably Meszaros, as well.To be honest, I think you'll even see them lock up Wellwood before this season is over on something like a three-year deal. 650k or so. Maybe Rinaldo too, but if the Refs continue to neuter his game, they may have to look elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGreatGazoo Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 To me, it's just plain ol' common sense, for every year you wait to lock up a player, his price goes up 10-20 per cent based on the outrageous RFA and UFA marketsDoes the Matt Carle contract come to mind anyone??? He is a perfect example of what Jammer states....Couldn't agree more Jammer....we can argue whether 6 years is too many, but for the dollar/cap hit, this is a great deal for the team, and the player. If Hartnell continues to produce like he has the last 2 years, this deal is a steal for the team. And Hartnell benefits because he is where he wants to be, long term. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 @rickmac19 To me, it's just plain ol' common sense, for every year you wait to lock up a player, his price goes up 10-20 per cent based on the outrageous RFA and UFA markets. The deal Harts got for 4.7 this year would have cost them 5.5 or 6 mill next year. Sure, you can let him go, but then you face the problem of replacing the goals on the trade or UFA market, it's just easier to deal with a guy you already know. You know he's a good worker, good teammate and good for the community.In Timonen's case, there's no way he gets $6.3m at 39 years old. He's probably going to gauge how things go after this season, and sign a one-year deal somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Does the Matt Carle contract come to mind anyone??? He is a perfect example of what Jammer states....Couldn't agree more Jammer....we can argue whether 6 years is too many, but for the dollar/cap hit, this is a great deal for the team, and the player. If Hartnell continues to produce like he has the last 2 years, this deal is a steal for the team. And Hartnell benefits because he is where he wants to be, long term.Yeah, I wish it weren't for 6 years... 4 would have been better. As it stands, he'll be 36 when it expires.Incidentally, TSN ran two pieces about the Flyers: one on the Hartnell deal (they love it), and one on the length of their recent deals (Simmonds and Hartnell). If you can access TSN, it's on the NHL landing page along the right side (videos). http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 In Timonen's case, there's no way he gets $6.3m at 39 years old. He's probably going to gauge how things go after this season, and sign a one-year deal somewhere.That's what I am thinking too. He can probably get $4 mil, but that's going to be dictated largely by how well he does this season. If teams see he still has plenty in the tank, I think he will get his money. I would also think he would like to finish what he started here, but that may be outside the Flyers' control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Timonen is a number 5 D man on most competitive teams now, but in the condition your D is, he'll still see major ice time. I'd expect as number 4. If I were Laviolette... I'd have Coburn and Schenn first pair to see what Schenn does in his new orange. Grossman and Timonen second pair... due to injury or Meszaros would be there instead of Timonen. Your 5 and 6 right now are developers... and I dunno your young D men well enough to guess too well. Manning and Gustavson I'd assume? If Schenn bombs out, bump him down to the second pair and put Timonen back for stability sake, but I don't think he'll have the gas to be there all season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Timonen is a number 5 D man on most competitive teams now...Excuse me? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 I don't think i'd pair schenn with coburn, i really think part of luke's problems in Toronto aside from you know it being Toronto, was a lack of coaching and mentoring. so while he's around i'd try to put him with timmonen so the viking can help coach him up a little on the bench after their shifts, i don't think he gets that with coburn. the kid is tough and likes contact, if he can be pointed in the right direction, i think we'll be pleased.plus i like grossmann and coburn as the top shutdown pairing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 I don't think i'd pair schenn with coburn,i really think part of luke's problems in Toronto aside from you know it being Toronto, was a lack of coaching and mentoring. so while he's around i'd try to put him with timmonen so the viking can help coach him up a little on the bench after their shifts, i don't think he gets that with coburn. the kid is tough and likes contact, if he can be pointed in the right direction, i think we'll be pleased.plus i like grossmann and coburn as the top shutdown pairing.I thought about that, but then I thought Grossman and Coburn together are kind of all your eggs in one basket defensively to me. Timo has a lot to teach, and I'm sure he's well cut for it, I just thought if I were coach, I wouldn't want what could be my player most in need of development and guidance on the ice with a guy who's losing a step here and there. Could make for some bad defensive gaps. Good point though... the teaching would be beneficial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakanekimiwa Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 @rickmac19 To me, it's just plain ol' common sense, for every year you wait to lock up a player, his price goes up 10-20 per cent based on the outrageous RFA and UFA markets. The deal Harts got for 4.7 this year would have cost them 5.5 or 6 mill next year. Sure, you can let him go, but then you face the problem of replacing the goals on the trade or UFA market, it's just easier to deal with a guy you already know. You know he's a good worker, good teammate and good for the community.on top of this... it makes it much easier to trade a guy who has a manageable cap hit. again.. i can't see how flyer's fans have a problem with this. flyer's fans will complain if he DIDN'T lock them up. there's no making anyone happy here. sweet geebus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 @polariss922that's a bit of a conundrum , do you split your top skill guys so there is always at least one quality guy out there ? or do put out your top guns together as "the pairing" the injury to metzaros made this a more of an issue than most flyers fans would like no question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howie58 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Greetings:I am happy that we seem to be locking up a core of players. Hartnell may never equal last year but he will be a steady producer and his physical game isn't likely to diminish soon.We are witnessing something fairly unique in Flyer history: The team seems committed to keeping a nucleus of younger players to develop together. Perhaps Daddy Snider understands that if he wants to see another Cup before passing, it can't be done with a series of retread aquisitions and draft pick sacrifices, particularly under a salary cap.I suspect D is next year's target. We have a cadre of emerging forwards. I don't see Timmo in the O and B past next year. Frankly, I wonder if he will be playing anywhere after next year.Best,Howie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 @mojo1917Well if it were me I'd split them. I think Timonen can watch Schenn better from the bench and see what he's doing then discuss it on the bench when he comes off. At least until I see how Schenn handles it. I like Schenn, and I still think you got the better end of that deal simply because you have enough offense not to miss JVR and I think Schenn has a tremendous upside to him down the road if he's tapped right. Not blind faith though... not by any means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DaGreatGazoo Posted August 21, 2012 Popular Post Share Posted August 21, 2012 Timonen is a number 5 D man on most competitive teams nowRespectfully, REALLY disagree with that comment. Granted, injuries are are the x-factor with Timonen right now, but then again, couldn't that be said about all players.He had 43 points last year, was a +8 for the season, and made the All-Star team. He also played 76 games in the regular season. If those stats are a Number 5 on most competiive teams..I'll take 4 number 5 D-men for this team. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Respectfully, REALLY disagree with that comment. Granted, injuries are are the x-factor with Timonen right now, but then again, couldn't that be said about all players.He had 43 points last year, was a +8 for the season, and made the All-Star team. He also played 76 games in the regular season. If those stats are a Number 5 on most competiive teams..I'll take 4 number 5 D-men for this team. Sorry Gaz I just don't think he played all that stellar. I think his points production was more a result of power play time than 5 vs 5. ALL 4 of his goals last year were PP goals.. and his career stats show a steady decline as he ages. That's not counting the clearly out of gas playoff time. I think he's been a good solid d-man for you guys and even more so Nashville prior to that. BUT he's aging and slowing down... secondary assists are his contribution. I think being a fan clouds even the best of our judgement on when a local hero starts losing his touch. As for the All Star Game, it's a fan based vote... without 6 million Philly folks I doubt he even makes it there. If points were the deciding factor, he'd be 8th in our conference with several clearly better defensemen below him only due to injury. Bring +/- in and he's 57th in the league. Lilja is has a higher stat than he does. I'm not trying to take away from what Timonen has been in his career. He's a great leader for your D, and will make an excellent mentor for your younger D in development. But performance wise? He's just not all that anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 ....his career stats show a steady decline as he ages.Shocking. That never happened to anybody before, I can't imagine why it would happen to Timonen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Shocking. That never happened to anybody before, I can't imagine why it would happen to Timonen Smart alec I'm not saying his unique in it! LOL I'm saying its time to make room for new talent that's better than he is now! grrrr... heh heh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 (edited) 'm saying its time to make room for new talent that's better than he is nowNo. It's time for Timonen to play less hard minutes. That's it.The Flyers don't have other D with his mix of skill, hockey IQ, dependeability and leadership. And they aren't going to get it on the FA market at this point. I don't see any reason for him to not continue to play on either unit of the PP, where he generates a high perecentage of his points.What I was objecting to was your suggestion that Timonen is a #5 D-man on most teams. That's crazy talk. He easily makes the top 4 of almost every team in the NHL. Do we have to go through them one-by-one? I hope not. Edited August 21, 2012 by Podein25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 No. It's time for Timonen to play less hard minutes. That's it.The Flyers don't have other D with his mix of skill, hockey IQ, dependeability and leadership. And they aren't going to get it on the FA market at this point. I don't see any reason for him to not continue to play on either unit of the PP, where he generates a high perecentage of his points.What I was objecting to was your suggestion that Timonen is a #5 D-man on most teams. That's crazy talk. He easily makes the top 4 of almost every team in the NHL. Do we have to go through them one-by-one? I hope not.I suppose we could but it would all boil down to what I think of his current level of play vs. what you think. I think he is still your number 1 D man on the PP... that is where he still shines most. He has all those things (skill, IQ, etc) sure... but he's slowing down is all I'm saying. And again I have no objection to your objecting (did I just say that??) I just feel he's slipped further than some of you do. You call it "less hard minutes".. I call it being on your second pairing until Meszaros steps back on the ice, then he's your number 5. That's traditionally where those kind of minutes come from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 I call it being on your second pairing until Meszaros steps back on the ice, then he's your number 5.With respect, you're nuts about this #5 stuff. Completely bonkers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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