NHL Renews Anti-Diving Campaign

[DaGreatGazoo]

But I do think most of you guys who step back and look at the guy will find he's not Satan.

He's not, I agree; he's Satan's 2nd in command.

[Polaris922]

Miroslav has a second in command??

[DaGreatGazoo]

@Polaris922

Check this out...out of curiosity, I look up Mirlosav's stats'. Notice something in his URL. Someone has a sense of humor at Yahoo Sports. LMFAO.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/666

[Polaris922]

@Polaris922

Check this out...out of curiosity, I look up Mirlosav's stats'. Notice something in his URL. Someone has a sense of humor at Yahoo Sports. LMFAO.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/666

That's great! Lol. And I was thinking... Satan DID line with Crosby at one point... Number 81... Then 87.... I dunno maybe you're on to something...

[mojo1917]

But I do think most of you guys who step back and look at the guy will find he's not Satan.

Crosby acted poorly.

i recognize the talent, & don't think he's satan.

his game needs to change to hockey only or he will become a cautionary tale.

zubris embellished that hit, you guys act like this was stevens on lindros or torres on hossa.

not giroux's proudest moment

i recognize that too.

hindenburg to party city is an apt analogy.

[radoran]

Pretty obvious what you are trying to do here....you are trying to take his role as captain and pin that series loss on him and him alone. The Pens suspiciously played bad when their captain returned! See! The attempt is as expected as it is futile. Crosby's behavior, leadership (or lack there of) had absolutely nothing at all to do with why the Pens lost that series. The Flyers played better...err not as awful.

What I am saying is that the way he conducted himself was an embarassment on and off the ice. There's another person who agrees with me - Mario Lemieux.

I'll go with that.

So much to reply to... Wow..

First off, I didn't see Crosby being cross checked in the back ten feet from the bench well after the mucking had stopped and falling down as a dive.

Not "dive" - embellishment.

Rule 64 - Diving / Embellishment

64.1 Diving / Embellishment – Any player who blatantly dives, embellishes a fall or a reaction, or who feigns an injury shall be penalized with a minor penalty under this rule.

Crosby acted like he'd been shot. Please. From Dan Carcillo I expect such things.

It IS hypocritical to hold him to a super human standard then excuse Giroux's immaturity in the same breath. Giroux is a great player, but his temper tantrum shoulder to Zubrus' chin was worse than anything Crosby did. To me that was a deliberate strike to the head, and I hope when he saw it he learned not to do that again. Yes he made a nice hit on Crosby and went in to score a goal, but he also had some not do proud moments as well.

Not "excusing" it at all. My FIRST comment on the matter was that it was certainly NOT "forgotten." I'm saying the impact of Giroux acting out emotionally and Crosby doing it are and were two different things in how the rest of the team would conduct itself and react to it. That's the other side of the C.

You can't just excuse away a Cup-winning captain losing his composure in the first period of Game 3 (and never really regaining it) as opposed to a frustrated (and injured) player wearing the A about to lose Game 5 and go down 3-1 in what is effectively his first playoff season as one of the primary "leaders" on the team.

Nothing about that "excuses" the hit on Zubrus.

I DO take issue with how Crosby handled himself and the influence it had on the team during the playoff series, but I do NOT think its why they lost. I think it's more the product of that losing. I hope he learned and it doesn't happen again.

...

I don't expect a love movement for Crosby by Flyers fans... But I do think most of you guys who step back and look at the guy will find he's not Satan.

I'll refer you to the end of my post where I explicitly state that I expect him to do better and believe he will and that if he does learn from this, it's good for him, good for the Pens and good for the game.

And, importantly, as has been noted, Satan wears 81. And I thank the hockey Gods he never played for New Jersey because I... would have had to buy that jersey...

In other news, Kovalchuk makes $6,666,666.66 a year. Another reason to fear Lou.

[Polaris922]

Crosby acted poorly.

i recognize the talent, & don't think he's satan.

his game needs to change to hockey only or he will become a cautionary tale.

zubris embellished that hit, you guys act like this was stevens on lindros or torres on hossa.

not giroux's proudest moment

i recognize that too.

hindenburg to party city is an apt analogy.

I agree Crosby needs his head more focused on his game.

I don't think Zubrus embellished the hit. I've taken a shoulder pad to the chin, and Giroux clearly launches up into his jaw. Nothing to embellish there, that flat out stuns you. I don't care if you have a mouthpiece in or not, that one hurts. Agreed not his proudest moment, and I don't think he's a dirtbag or anything, just lost his cool for a minute there.

Right about now, I just want the damn negotiations to go well so we have something to argue about all year! LOL

[B21]

@mojo1917

@DaGreatGazoo

First - admitting Giroux sounded like a "baby" is coming dangerously close to putting him in "Crosby" territory. I disagree but...comments like that after his incidents in the playoffs are what Crosby gets killed for all the time. Starting to add up for for him.

Not to beat a dead horse but remember Tortarella's rant? Said the same thing Crosby did about the Penguins (though a lot less eloquently) and he all of a sudden was hockey Jesus on here despite years of getting killed himself. Coach. Player. Doesn't matter. Either comments like that are out of line or they aren't. Seems to be a bit of a double standard to me.

[B21]

@radoran

<<< What I am saying is that the way he conducted himself was an embarassment on and off the ice. There's another person who agrees with me - Mario Lemieux. >>>

Then next time...say that. I said it too. Right after the game.

No need to try and pin the series loss on him and spin his antics as the reason why. One had nothing to do with the other.

[radoran]

@radoran

<<< What I am saying is that the way he conducted himself was an embarassment on and off the ice. There's another person who agrees with me - Mario Lemieux. >>>

Then next time...say that. I said it too. Right after the game.

No need to try and pin the series loss on him and spin his antics as the reason why. One had nothing to do with the other.

Well, I do explicitly call it an embarassment (which @Polaris922 took issue with) in one of my first posts on this thread...

Were there other reasons? Sure. The Coach was acting like a petulant child. Other players on the team were acting like petulant children. The Pens allowed themselves to get caught up in the run-and-gun that was the Flyers' bread-and-butter all year instead of playing disciplined, playoff hockey.

Might that have had just a little something to do with the way the captain was acting? If a Captain can have a series-winning performance, he can certainly have a series-losing performance as well.

Again YMMV. But if Crosby continues to play like he did in that series, IMO he's not winning another Cup.

(Again, for the record, I don't expect him to continue to play like that).

[DaGreatGazoo]

@B21

The difference is Giroux did it once...Crosby has a long, documented history of doing it. I hardly put G into "Crosby territory", at this point. If he gets there, I will be the first person to tell him to STFU.

Comparing G to Crosby on this issue is ridiculous. It's like comparing G to Carcillo....there is NO comparison.

[B21]

@radoran

<<< Were there other reasons? Sure. The Coach was acting like a petulant child. Other players on the team were acting like petulant children. >>>

LOL. Spare me. Petulant children? Your bias here is clear and isn't absolved because you add "...for the record, I don't expect him to continue to play like that..." at the end of every post.

Petulant child is Crosby's antics in that series. Petulant child is Laviolette and his antics in the final game of the season. Petulant child is the comments/actions of Tortorella. Those are "petulant child" antics/comments. Not the Pens playing badly. The Flyers were just as much a part of that series as the Pens were.

<<< The Pens allowed themselves to get caught up in the run-and-gun that was the Flyers' bread-and-butter all year instead of playing disciplined, playoff hockey. >>>

Finally some hockey-related analysis of the series for which you would be 100% correct.

<<< Might that have had just a little something to do with the way the captain was acting? If a Captain can have a series-winning performance, he can certainly have a series-losing performance as well. >>>

Seeing as how one has nothing to do with the other...no. Here we go again with the Pens somehow following the "leadership of their captain" insinuations. Gets old after a while especially considering these antics in question occurred at the end of Game 3 when for all intents and purposes, the Pens were down 3-0, i.e. - series was over.

[B21]

@B21

The difference is Giroux did it once...Crosby has a long, documented history of doing it. I hardly put G into "Crosby territory", at this point. If he gets there, I will be the first person to tell him to STFU.

Comparing G to Crosby on this issue is ridiculous. It's like comparing G to Carcillo....there is NO comparison.

Agree, Gazoo. Not putting Giroux's body of work (more like lack thereof) into Crosby territory but these "incidents" (for lack of a better word) are absolutely what Crosby does get kiilled for...barking at the officials, cheap shots and comments to the media considered inappropriate. If you want to chalk it up to frustration in Giroux's end, fine. I'd would even agree. My stance is that this was Year 1 of Giroux having to deal with what Crosby does during games. If the pressure got to him already....well then...welcome to the last 7 years of Crosby's world, Claude. Let's see how you do moving forward.

[DaGreatGazoo]

@B21

Gotcha, and that makes sense....you are right, G was playing top line and getting top line defensive attention. It will be interesting to see how he reacts moving forward.

Now..about that CBA......

[radoran]

Seeing as how one has nothing to do with the other...no. Here we go again with the Pens somehow following the "leadership of their captain" insinuations. Gets old after a while especially considering these antics in question occurred at the end of Game 3 when for all intents and purposes, the Pens were down 3-0, i.e. - series was over.

First period, Game 3.

Not "at the end".

First period.

And, seriously, the actions of a captain has "nothing to do" with how his team plays? Please.

[DinahMoeHumm]

@Polaris922

Check this out...out of curiosity, I look up Mirlosav's stats'. Notice something in his URL. Someone has a sense of humor at Yahoo Sports. LMFAO.

http://sports.yahoo....nhl/players/666

I know I'm late to the game on this, but I remember noticing that several years ago and getting a hefty laugh out of it. Yes, someone at Yahoo Sports definitely has a sense of humor!

[DinahMoeHumm]

And, seriously, the actions of a captain has "nothing to do" with how his team plays? Please.

I can agree that the actions of a captain can affect the way his team plays. However, the way a team plays can also have an affect on the actions of a captain. The latter, in my opinion, was more the case with Sid in these playoffs.

[B21]

@radoran

<<< First period, Game 3.

Not "at the end".

First period. >>>

1st period. I stand corrected. Sticking to my argument though. His actions did not impact the actual play on the ice.

<<< And, seriously, the actions of a captain has "nothing to do" with how his team plays? Please. >>>

Explain how then. Go ahead. Explain how Crosby's antics led to Fleury's God-awful save % or the repeated break downs on D by Letang & Co. or how those antics kept Malkin from figuring out Courturier.

Giroux had some similar antics at a VERY critifcal point in your series with the Devils but that series loss was due to the play on the ice, etc. Funny the Pens and Crosby don't get the same benefit of the doubt. Noooooooooo...it's somehow all on Crosby.

Feel free to keep at it but your intentions are obvious.

[B21]

@B21

Gotcha, and that makes sense....you are right, G was playing top line and getting top line defensive attention. It will be interesting to see how he reacts moving forward.

Now..about that CBA......

Yeah - less and less optimistic on that one...could be a long winter. At least the Buccos are conten....oh wait...nevermind.

[B21]

I can agree that the actions of a captain can affect the way his team plays. However, the way a team plays can also have an affect on the actions of a captain. The latter, in my opinion, was more the case with Sid in these playoffs.

Interesting angle...and I think you are 100% correct. Put it this way, if Crosby "behaves", the Pens are still losing that series.

Funny, too. After his "antics" in Game 3, the Pens won the next 2. Juuuuuuuuuuusst sayin'...

[DinahMoeHumm]

Put it this way, if Crosby "behaves", the Pens are still losing that series.

Absolutely, 100% correct. And it almost seems to me that his behavior was a direct result of frustration and the way the team was playing. Did the Flyers get to Sid a little? Sure, probably. But even if they didn't get to him to the point of him "misbehaving" the Pens were still on their way out. The whole team basically fell apart and everyone (almost to a man) was out of character right from the drop of the puck in Game 1.

Funny, too. After his "antics" in Game 3, the Pens won the next 2. Juuuuuuuuuuusst sayin'...

I hadn't thought of that honestly, but those are, indeed, the facts. Funny how that is

[radoran]

I can agree that the actions of a captain can affect the way his team plays. However, the way a team plays can also have an affect on the actions of a captain. The latter, in my opinion, was more the case with Sid in these playoffs.

I'll happily take on that debate over "it's not Sid's fault at all" and "Sid doesn't dive much any more" in a thread posted by @B21 that starts with specifically showing Crosby diving...

As for the playoffs - a captain sets the tone. The tone isn't set for him. Or he's failed in his role.

Shane Doan. Dustin Brown. Zach Parise. Ryan Callahan.

Any of them do stupid things or become a distraction for their teams or did they play the focused, leadership role that you need to be successful in this league's playoffs?

Crosby was completely taken off his game and out of composure - even resorting to the "they do things, too, and you don't send them to their rooms!" routine. The Flyers saw this and rope-a-doped him some more.

Quite frankly, I think Laviolette pushed all the right buttons from the last games of the regular season throughout the series to get the Pens to act exactly hoe he wanted them to - one of the few ways that a Flyers team - being a serious underdog coming in - could have won the series.

The Pens were worried about chip shots, Laviolette and trying to "outskill" the Flyers offensively when they should have been worried about winning the series. And Crosby, too often, had in his mind how to draw a cheap penalty or jibber-jabber after the play rather than playing disciplined playoff hockey.

Just about everybody agrees with that - the question is how much did it affect the team.

YMMV.

[radoran]

Interesting angle...and I think you are 100% correct. Put it this way, if Crosby "behaves", the Pens are still losing that series.

Funny, too. After his "antics" in Game 3, the Pens won the next 2. Juuuuuuuuuuusst sayin'...

The Pens were certainly favored and expected to be at least a Conference Finalist by most observers. The fact that they won the next two games demonstrates quite effectively that they had the skill and ability to win the series. Digging the early hole is the problem.

The better team coming in should never have been down 3-0. Win Game 3 and it's 2-1 Flyers. Win the next two - as you note - and you're up 3-2 with two to play.

I saw a team off its moorings and the dockmaster, rather than trying to tie the boat down or drop anchor, steered into the shoals in Game 3.

So did the owner.

In Game 4, he lead the team that was expected to win the series coming in came out and blew the doors off. Then won a close, more playoff-like, game at home and everything fell apart (again) in Game 6.

The only thing about that series that makes it virtually impossible for the Pens to win - even after losing the first two at home - is going down 3-0.

[jammer2]

@radoran I totally agree rad. If I can use a war analogy, (cause the playoffs really are war), if your commanding officer looks all squimish, child-like, frustrated....how do the soldiers in the fox hole respond? They are thrown off their objective....confused even. You need strong leadership to look up to, to set the tone...and Crosby failed miserably. Sure, players are individuals who are payed well to contribute, but when the face of the franchise is throwing tantrums instead of body checks, it throws off the whole "common objective". Winning then takes a back seat to countering what the Flyers are throwing at them. The Flyers sucessfully got in Sid's head, and the team suffered because of it....end of story. I think he will learn from this, but it was an expensive lesson.

[DinahMoeHumm]

I'll happily take on that debate over "it's not Sid's fault at all" and "Sid doesn't dive much any more"

I never said either of those things. I've seen the latter in many posts, and to me it's just beating a dead horse so I tend to leave it alone.

Ok, let me just put one thing out there before I continue... Sid is far from my favorite Penguin, and far from my favorite NHLer as well. Do I like him, am I glad the Pens have him? Of course. However, there have been many, many times that I've viewed some of his actions with a head shake or just plain outright disgust. Now, many of those times were admittedly earlier in his career, but it still happens from time to time. What I'm saying is, even as a die-hard Pens fan I am still able to "take off the glasses" and look at him -- and the entire team, for that matter -- objectively. Ok, so with that out of the way...

I'm not saying that "it's not Sid's fault at all" by any means. He absolutely shares responsibility. And frankly, his play itself wasn't even close to being "up to par." The bottom line is the entire team fell apart, top to bottom, and *very* much in the coaching department, too. I've stated my disgust in other threads regarding Bylsma's inability (or perhaps flat-out refusal) to adjust. Sid absolutely could have been better... just like everybody else.

You had a quote that read "What I am saying is that the way he conducted himself was an embarassment on and off the ice." Ok, at times, yes, I cannot disagree. But I also very much agree with @B21 who said "No need to try and pin the series loss on him and spin his antics as the reason why." His actions were *not* the reason the Pens lost that series. The Flyers clearly outplayed them (though only barely in the goaltending department) and Bylsma was clearly outcoached. I fully admit that 100%. Could Sid have been better in various areas -- including his captaincy -- during that series? Absolutely. But the series loss was *not* because of him. And believe me, I'm very judgmental of him at times and if I thought that was the case I'd be the first one screaming it.

Crosby was completely taken off his game and out of composure

I can't disagree... right along with most of the rest of the team.

The Pens were worried about chip shots, Laviolette and trying to "outskill" the Flyers offensively when they should have been worried about winning the series.

Again, I can't disagree. And I like your use of "The Pens were worried..." and not "Sid was worried..." because that's exactly it. It was a team mindset, and that collective mindset is, ultimately, what led to their downfall.

And Crosby, too often, had in his mind how to draw a cheap penalty or jibber-jabber after the play rather than playing disciplined playoff hockey.

Just about everybody agrees with that - the question is how much did it affect the team.

Not much, in my opinion. Like I said, it was a team mindset. The irony is that I wouldn't exactly call the Flyers play during that series "disciplined" at all either. With all of the goals that were given up during that series I don't think either side can claim bragging rights on discipline. It was more of a competition of who could be just a little less undisciplined. And that's where the Pens lost. Had the Pens not unraveled and given the Flyers 931 power play opportunities during the series, well... who knows. Fleury was an absolute sieve during the series anyway.