NHL Renews Anti-Diving Campaign

[DinahMoeHumm]

@radoran You need strong leadership to look up to, to set the tone...and Crosby failed miserably.

Just so that it's out there, Crosby may be the captain, but he was not the leader for pretty much the entire season. He was out, and much of the time not even around the team. Before anyone gets riled up and thinks I'm putting that out there as some sort of "excuse" or "free pass," I am not. But I think it's worth remembering.

[jammer2]

@DinahMoeHumm I dunno DMH...he's got the C on his sweater, he makes the most money, he's the face of the franchise....that's a hard sell.

[B21]

@radoran

<<< I'll happily take on that debate over "it's not Sid's fault at all" and "Sid doesn't dive much any more" in a thread posted by @B21 that starts with specifically showing Crosby diving... >>>

LOL. Neither of which I said in this thread...

<<< As for the playoffs - a captain sets the tone. The tone isn't set for him. Or he's failed in his role. >>>

<<< Shane Doan. Dustin Brown. Zach Parise. Ryan Callahan. >>>

<<< Any of them do stupid things or become a distraction for their teams or did they play the focused, leadership role that you need to be successful in this league's playoffs? >>>

Except that the Pens won the next two games after these distractions surfaced and lost the two games before they did. Puts a huge hole in your theory.

<<< Crosby was completely taken off his game and out of composure - even resorting to the "they do things, too, and you don't send them to their rooms!" routine. The Flyers saw this and rope-a-doped him some more. >>>

Agree. Not even up for debate.

<<< Quite frankly, I think Laviolette pushed all the right buttons from the last games of the regular season throughout the series to get the Pens to act exactly hoe he wanted them to - one of the few ways that a Flyers team - being a serious underdog coming in - could have won the series. >>>

Also agree except for the part about the Flyers being a serious underdog. You won the regular season series. The Pens were 1 point better in the regular season and had fewer wins in regulation. Find me a Flyers fan who had you as "serious" underdogs. That was by far the most evenly matched 1st round series last year.

[DinahMoeHumm]

@DinahMoeHumm I dunno DMH...he's got the C on his sweater, he makes the most money, he's the face of the franchise....that's a hard sell.

Ok, but how do the other guys in the locker room view the situation? Because that's really what matters. They went to war for nearly an entire season relying on others to step up. Now, when Sid returns, do they look at him as the captain? Absolutely. I'm just saying I think the other guys also understand the situation and understand that while they had a full season's worth of play, Sid pretty much had zip.

Thinking about your war analogy. Let's say that I'm the first in charge and you're second. I get injured and am out for an extended period of time. In my lengthy absence, you take over, rally the troops, look out for our boys and do an admirable job doing so. Those boys look up to you, they respect you, they trust you. Now, I come back into the mix and am given back my top spot. You and all the other boys know that I'm not in top shape or anywhere near on top of my game yet because of what I've just gone through. I still get the respect because of what I've done previously, and overall you and the boys are glad to have me back. But if I "slip a gear" here and there are you going to let the whole thing unravel because of me? Are you going to follow my lead when I get out of character and let me lead you to a path of destruction? Perhaps even do the same things that I'm doing just because I'm doing them? I highly doubt it. You may, at times, say "wow, DMH sure has his panties in a bunch today" or something similar, but for the most part I'd venture to say you're not going to put too much stock into it. You're in the middle of a war, and you know what has to be done.

But again, it was just something to point out, not to be used as an excuse. I'm just trying to look at what the mindset of the team might have been regarding Sid (I have no way of actually knowing) and further bolster my case that the playoff series loss was not because of him.

[B21]

@radoran

<<< The Pens were certainly favored and expected to be at least a Conference Finalist by most observers. The fact that they won the next two games demonstrates quite effectively that they had the skill and ability to win the series. Digging the early hole is the problem. >>>

<<< The better team coming in should never have been down 3-0. Win Game 3 and it's 2-1 Flyers. Win the next two - as you note - and you're up 3-2 with two to play. >>>

When you play as bad as they did - yeah - it kinda can happe. See: Fleury, Marc-Andre.

<<< I saw a team off its moorings and the dockmaster, rather than trying to tie the boat down or drop anchor, steered into the shoals in Game 3. So did the owner. >>>

Yeah - you said that already. Anything new? Like how his antics affected the actual play on the ice? Example: How did Crosby's antics lead to Fleury's awful play? Still waiting for an answer on that one.

<<< In Game 4, he lead the team that was expected to win the series coming in came out and blew the doors off. Then won a close, more playoff-like, game at home and everything fell apart (again) in Game 6. >>>

See prior post. "Expected" as in two teams 1 point apart in the regular season? Expected as in the Flyers winning...heck - dominating...the regular season series? That's swell the majority of the pundits picked the Pens. You know and I know (again) that was about as evenly matched as two teams can be going in.

[DinahMoeHumm]

@radoran

<<< Quite frankly, I think Laviolette pushed all the right buttons from the last games of the regular season throughout the series to get the Pens to act exactly hoe he wanted them to - one of the few ways that a Flyers team - being a serious underdog coming in - could have won the series. >>>

Also agree except for the part about the Flyers being a serious underdog. You won the regular season series. The Pens were 1 point better in the regular season and had fewer wins in regulation. Find me a Flyers fan who had you as "serious" underdogs. That was by far the most evenly matched 1st round series last year.

@B21: Thanks for pointing that out. I was going to make mention of that in a previous post and, due to some apparent long-windedness, simply forgot. I heard absolutely no Flyers fans chirping any underdog talk whatsoever. None. Maybe it makes the series win feel better, but it was certainly not the case. The Flyers not only won the regular season series, they won it pretty handily. And like you said, the Pens were only 1 point better in the regular season. The word "underdog" shouldn't even be mentioned along with the Flyers in that series, let alone "serious underdog." Hell, to add insult to injury the Pens had home ice, and we all know how Philly has taken over the CEC.

[B21]

@jammer2

<<< I totally agree rad. If I can use a war analogy, (cause the playoffs really are war), if your commanding officer looks all squimish, child-like, frustrated....how do the soldiers in the fox hole respond? They are thrown off their objective....confused even. You need strong leadership to look up to, to set the tone...and Crosby failed miserably. Sure, players are individuals who are payed well to contribute, but when the face of the franchise is throwing tantrums instead of body checks, it throws off the whole "common objective". Winning then takes a back seat to countering what the Flyers are throwing at them. The Flyers sucessfully got in Sid's head, and the team suffered because of it....end of story. I think he will learn from this, but it was an expensive lesson. >>>

Jammer: If you want to play that card then I can do the same with Giroux in your series with the Devils. Very similar. He may not wear the C but he was your leader last year.

You were expected to handle the Devlis a lot more easily than the Pens were supposedly "expected" to be able to handle the Flyers and look how that turned out.

Did the Flyers lose because of a lack of leadership? Or did the team that won play better? I'll take the latter...in both series.

[B21]

@B21: Thanks for pointing that out. I was going to make mention of that in a previous post and, due to some apparent long-windedness, simply forgot. I heard absolutely no Flyers fans chirping any underdog talk whatsoever. None. Maybe it makes the series win feel better, but it was certainly not the case. The Flyers not only won the regular season series, they won it pretty handily. And like you said, the Pens were only 1 point better in the regular season. The word "underdog" shouldn't even be mentioned along with the Flyers in that series, let alone "serious underdog." Hell, to add insult to injury the Pens had home ice, and we all know how Philly has taken over the CEC.

Selective reasoning. Last year all those pundits who picked the Pens were wrong. Now that it fits the argument, they were correct.

[DinahMoeHumm]

Selective reasoning. Last year all those pundits who picked the Pens were wrong. Now that it fits the argument, they were correct.

Well said.

[mojo1917]

@B21

@DinahMoeHumm

i didn't think the Flyers were underdogs in that series at all, the whole year our guys were a bad match-up for yours, just like all year the rangers were a bad match up for our guys... our group had your groups number last year. last year.

it was the hockey press that created the pens juggernaut narrative around last year's playoffs.

you guys are right there wasn't a lot of talk from us about our guys being the underdog other than to say "pfft whatever" and knowing the play on the ice would decide the outcome.

[DinahMoeHumm]

it was the hockey press that created the pens juggernaut narrative around last year's playoffs.

The press certainly always puts their spin on things. I realize that's part of their job, but nothing burns me up more than when they flip-flop. But you're right, I think most fans (knowledgeable fans anyway) of both teams knew it was pretty evenly matched and that it would be a battle. Though I think it's safe to say that none of us had any idea that the series would go the way it actually did. That was the big surprise. And by that I mean the high scoring, goaltender meltdowns, etc. Wow!

[B21]

@B21

@DinahMoeHumm

i didn't think the Flyers were underdogs in that series at all, the whole year our guys were a bad match-up for yours, just like all year the rangers were a bad match up for our guys... our group had your groups number last year. last year.

it was the hockey press that created the pens juggernaut narrative around last year's playoffs.

you guys are right there wasn't a lot of talk from us about our guys being the underdog other than to say "pfft whatever" and knowing the play on the ice would decide the outcome.

Ah - so your the reasonable one. I was ready to go and dig up those forum polls.

Now go catch the Skankies. 3.5 out and now Teixiera is out. In the meantime, I'll pray for my beloved Buccos to make the Wild Card.

[Polaris922]

Ah - so your the reasonable one. I was ready to go and dig up those forum polls.

Now go catch the Skankies. 3.5 out and now Teixiera is out. In the meantime, I'll pray for my beloved Buccos to make the Wild Card.

Just saying Buccos makes my stomach queasy right now... Why'd ya hafta go there? Lol

[Penguins-66]

Wait, is this another "Crozby iz da worstes diever in da leega!" thread? lol.

Anyway....

I can see where Polaris is coming from. It's a very thin line. Do we go back to the "hooking the living $%&@ out of Lemieux-era" or do you call-out those who cheapen the game on a regular basis? Tough call. I can't count how many times I've seen the "clear as day dives" not called and when I do see a dive called, they also call the poor S.O.B. who was suckered into the cheap play.

Call me stupid, but to this day I'm still confused. If one guy is embellishing the call, why does the other guy get a penalty? I've been watching the game for as long as I can remember and that rule still doesn't make sense to me.

Still, I want to see the greatest talent be able to perform to it's fullest abilities without some dumb goon hooking and slashing for three straight periods with equally moronic and goonish fans cheering them on to no end and simply passing it off as "part of the game". What's the point in having talented players if that's going to be the case?

Finding a happy medium is the key and it's not easy. I wish them luck.

Edited August 29, 2012 by Penguins-66

[DinahMoeHumm]

Call me stupid, but to this day I'm still confused. If one guy is embellishing the call, why does the other guy get a penalty?

I've wondered that for years myself. Aren't the two mutually exclusive more or less? It's either one or the other? I don't know, apparently I'm missing something :wacko:

[Polaris922]

@Penguins-66

@DinahMoeHumm

You can trip someone and they can embellish it at the same time. They were going down either way, but since they add to the fall and look like they got shot, it should be called both ways. So you DID get tripped, but trying for an Oscar at the same time got you in the box as well.

[Penguins-66]

I've wondered that for years myself. Aren't the two mutually exclusive more or less? It's either one or the other? I don't know, apparently I'm missing something :wacko:

I get why they do it, I just don't agree with it. I think you should call it one way or the other. It's either a dive or an infraction.

Edited August 30, 2012 by Penguins-66

[B21]

@Penguins-66

@DinahMoeHumm

@Polaris922

<<< You can trip someone and they can embellish it at the same time. They were going down either way, but since they add to the fall and look like they got shot, it should be called both ways. So you DID get tripped, but trying for an Oscar at the same time got you in the box as well. >>>

Definitely possible. Good luck sorting through that if you are an official though!

Was just curious...where are you fellas from? Any of you from the old Silly.com days?

Have to say...it's nice to have some cavalry over here now.

[DinahMoeHumm]

@Penguins-66

@DinahMoeHumm

@Polaris922

<<< You can trip someone and they can embellish it at the same time. They were going down either way, but since they add to the fall and look like they got shot, it should be called both ways. So you DID get tripped, but trying for an Oscar at the same time got you in the box as well. >>>

Definitely possible. Good luck sorting through that if you are an official though!

Was just curious...where are you fellas from? Any of you from the old Silly.com days?

Have to say...it's nice to have some cavalry over here now.

@B21: Yes, I was a silly.com frequenter for awhile, but under a different screen name. I currently live in Erie, so it's not too bad of a trip to get down for games, festivities, etc. And agreed, the cavalry is nice

[Penguins-66]

Was just curious...where are you fellas from? Any of you from the old Silly.com days?

Have to say...it's nice to have some cavalry over here now.

I reside in the South Hills area, born and raised. I never heard of Silly.com.

Edited August 30, 2012 by Penguins-66

[DinahMoeHumm]

@Penguins-66: silly.com is just a joke name for philly.com

[Penguins-66]

@Penguins-66: silly.com is just a joke name for philly.com

Ah, okay. I gotcha'.

[Polaris922]

@Penguins-66

@DinahMoeHumm

@Polaris922

<<< You can trip someone and they can embellish it at the same time. They were going down either way, but since they add to the fall and look like they got shot, it should be called both ways. So you DID get tripped, but trying for an Oscar at the same time got you in the box as well. >>>

Definitely possible. Good luck sorting through that if you are an official though!

Was just curious...where are you fellas from? Any of you from the old Silly.com days?

Have to say...it's nice to have some cavalry over here now.

I'm from South Park originally, but live in the Bridgeville area now.

[B21]

I'm from South Park originally, but live in the Bridgeville area now.

Small world. I live in one of those developments around Hickory Heights.

SLS alum. !@##$% South Park.

[Polaris922]

Small world. I live in one of those developments around Hickory Heights.

SLS alum. !@##$% South Park.

So you're about five minutes from my house. I live in Collier in the Kirwan Heights area. Small world indeed!