Howie58 Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Greetings:Two weeks ago I thought the collective bargaining process would work and the season would not be in jeopardy. Now I see a lost season, or at least some loss, as almost certain.In some ways I think this is more of a pivot point than '04-'05. You could argue that in '04 the league's finances were out of kilter and the NHLPA was being led over the cliff. This time around, the finances relate to a handful of "sick" franchises, owners who want protection from their own avarice/stupidity, and players who want to preserve the "Bettman Model" of nontraditional franchises even if marginal TV revenues fail to cover "sick" franchise problems.I also suspect that Bettmann-Fehr is a titanic personality clash of two lawyers from radically different backgrounds. There are elements of "class warfare" in any collective bargaining but these personalities seem worlds apart as people. Personally, driving across I-75 to see the Florida Everblades in Estero isn't too appealing, unless it's combined with a stay on the West Coast. But that seems like a pain in the you-know-what to get a fix of minor league hockey.One other observation: I suspect Gary Bettmann's job is on the line. Fehr will stay on regardless of outcome. But owners may use this an opportunity to move him out, even if the outcome is "owner-friendly." Peace,Howie 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerrod Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 One other observation: I suspect Gary Bettmann's job is on the line. Fehr will stay on regardless of outcome. But owners may use this an opportunity to move him out, even if the outcome is "owner-friendly."That is something ALL Hockey Fans are hoping for........ 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howie58 Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 That is something ALL Hockey Fans are hoping for........I suspect that's the case. He is not a warm-and-fuzzy. But the major issues in a league of haves and have-nots won't go away. Howie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idahophilly Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 I'll just go downtown more often to watch the Idaho Steelheads....If we need to lose and ENTIRE season to get rid of Bettmann then I'm OK with it... But, half a season would be better... Gives Timmo and Grossmann more time to heal and rest... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
behnam Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 I am outraged how this jerk ( Bettmann) is so hell-bent in destroying the game that I love so much. There has to be a way where we hockey fan can help to facilitate the removal of this moron. He has done nothing to promote the game of hockey, so as a commissioner he has been a total failure. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idahophilly Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 That's why I think Howie is onto something here. Bettman might get the ax no matter what happens. Regardless, it can't be acceptable to the owners to have this many lockouts, unless they are making out like bandits... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idahophilly Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Another thought though, the game has seen it's biggest growth and biggest TV deals under Bettmann. Could this be considered just growing pains??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 I am outraged how this jerk ( Bettmann) is so hell-bent in destroying the game that I love so much. There has to be a way where we hockey fan can help to facilitate the removal of this moron. He has done nothing to promote the game of hockey, so as a commissioner he has been a total failure.Whether you like him or not, he has not been a failure. He has grown the popularity of the sport and increased revenues year over year. How would you define success? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 My biggest frustration with a lockout is that our superstar gets a year older and the other young guys kinda lose a year of development. They may or may not improve in Russia, if they choose to go, but to me that is the biggest shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
behnam Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 The game of hockey will grow regardless of the person in commish office. I for one have invited my friends in attending hockey games. I have given Flyers jersey as birthday gift to my nephew and other kids, so how can Bettmann take credit for the work of people like me. NFL commissioner also faced the same problem that hockey faced in 2004, but he did not kill a hockey season like this jerk off. Please educate me about the contribution of Mr. Bettmann to the game of hockey. Game of hockey was pretty much unknown to west coast prior to Wayne Gretzky trade to King, and it's been growing ever since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phlyer1 Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Greetings:Two weeks ago I thought the collective bargaining process would work and the season would not be in jeopardy. Now I see a lost season, or at least some loss, as almost certain.In some ways I think this is more of a pivot point than '04-'05. You could argue that in '04 the league's finances were out of kilter and the NHLPA was being led over the cliff. This time around, the finances relate to a handful of "sick" franchises, owners who want protection from their own avarice/stupidity, and players who want to preserve the "Bettman Model" of nontraditional franchises even if marginal TV revenues fail to cover "sick" franchise problems.I also suspect that Bettmann-Fehr is a titanic personality clash of two lawyers from radically different backgrounds. There are elements of "class warfare" in any collective bargaining but these personalities seem worlds apart as people. Personally, driving across I-75 to see the Florida Everblades in Estero isn't too appealing, unless it's combined with a stay on the West Coast. But that seems like a pain in the you-know-what to get a fix of minor league hockey.One other observation: I suspect Gary Bettmann's job is on the line. Fehr will stay on regardless of outcome. But owners may use this an opportunity to move him out, even if the outcome is "owner-friendly."Peace,HowieNo matter how much blame goes to Bettman it still comes down to he works for the Owners. If they told him to make a deal that should be end of it. Easier to let him take the heat for a lost season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bishop Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 I'll just go downtown more often to watch the Idaho Steelheads....If we need to lose and ENTIRE season to get rid of Bettmann then I'm OK with it... But, half a season would be better... Gives Timmo and Grossmann more time to heal and rest...Sounds enticing but not worth it. As much as I dislike "The Weasel" Gary Bettman, it would be a real heartbreak if there is no hockey this year. Im dying to see Nash on one end, Richards in the middle and Gabby on the other but even more then that, I miss hockey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 @The Bishop AND...one more year Lundy's prime erased...you only get so many kicks at the can during your prime, so that would be a huge loss for Rangers fans I beleive. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindbergh31 Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Greetings:Two weeks ago I thought the collective bargaining process would work and the season would not be in jeopardy. Now I see a lost season, or at least some loss, as almost certain.In some ways I think this is more of a pivot point than '04-'05. You could argue that in '04 the league's finances were out of kilter and the NHLPA was being led over the cliff. This time around, the finances relate to a handful of "sick" franchises, owners who want protection from their own avarice/stupidity, and players who want to preserve the "Bettman Model" of nontraditional franchises even if marginal TV revenues fail to cover "sick" franchise problems.I also suspect that Bettmann-Fehr is a titanic personality clash of two lawyers from radically different backgrounds. There are elements of "class warfare" in any collective bargaining but these personalities seem worlds apart as people. Personally, driving across I-75 to see the Florida Everblades in Estero isn't too appealing, unless it's combined with a stay on the West Coast. But that seems like a pain in the you-know-what to get a fix of minor league hockey.One other observation: I suspect Gary Bettmann's job is on the line. Fehr will stay on regardless of outcome. But owners may use this an opportunity to move him out, even if the outcome is "owner-friendly."Peace,HowieHowie, no matter what happens I can see the owners giving Bettman the golden handshake and sending him on his way once the CBA is signed. If the owners don't get what they want then Bettman will be the fall guy. I can see the lockout will go until at least November and the season will start in January when the NFL is almost done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howie58 Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Lindbergh:Greetings! I agree that GB is the man to fall there is a labor stoppage of any duration. Something about the guy doesn't resonate with people. He would argue the finances and TV revenue are far better than when he took over. I suspect most fans wouldn't give a rat's ass. Best,Howie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 ut he did not kill a hockey season like this jerk off.I am too lazy to do it (actually more too busy with my family and life outside of the NHL to care), but it would be VERY interesting to see the differences in finances over a lockout year, vs. the current NHLPA demands and NHL refusal. I generally know the Forbes annual numbers of some teams pretty well. It would also be interesting to see what clauses are in the TV contracts if there is a lockout- as certainly those contracts are based on an expected viewer % and ad revenue.If I am a betting man, I am going to guess that a lockout year would lose a greater amount of money (revenue, expenses, profits etc), than the money being fought over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sekkes85 Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 One other observation: I suspect Gary Bettmann's job is on the line. Fehr will stay on regardless of outcome. But owners may use this an opportunity to move him out, even if the outcome is "owner-friendly."I for one, who love this sport above all other sports, will not watch or attend a single game of hockey in protest until Bettman is gone if a lockout does occur. His whole comment about the fans will return in the event of a lockout absolutely disgusted me and shows he really doesn't care about the fans or the growth of the sport. A lockout will kill this sport right as it was recovering and gaining casual fans back from the 1st lockout. The casual fan will not return this time in the event of a lockout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 If I am a betting man, I am going to guess that a lockout year would lose a greater amount of money (revenue, expenses, profits etc), than the money being fought over.They made a record $3.3B in total revenue last year for the NHL. I can't see them getting back to that level immeditaely after a lost season. I think, conservatively, we are talking about hundreds of millions of dollars - at least - on top of an(other) entire lost season.A few months, however, is something else entirely. The NBA still made $3.6B last year after their lockout... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howie58 Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 I for one, who love this sport above all other sports, will not watch or attend a single game of hockey in protest until Bettman is gone if a lockout does occur. His whole comment about the fans will return in the event of a lockout absolutely disgusted me and shows he really doesn't care about the fans or the growth of the sport. A lockout will kill this sport right as it was recovering and gaining casual fans back from the 1st lockout. The casual fan will not return this time in the event of a lockout.Sekkes: I would probably add a friendly amendment: I think getting attendance in the nontraditional markets that Bettmann covets will be difficult with a labor stoppage. Flyers and Rangers fans will stay the course; I am not sure about the Panther and Coyote fans, which is kind of tragic. Tallon may be turning my backyard Panthers around, and you have to admire Tippett/Phoenix for turning out a quality product in the midst of organizational chaos. If I were fans in those venues, I'd urinate on the NHL. Best,Howie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idahophilly Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Bettmann is trying to "protect" the small/fragile market teams and yet a lockout will hurt them the worst. As pointed out, the Rangers, Flyers, Leafs of the league will be fine no matter what. But what about his beloved Phoenix which already has a hard time drawing fans... We can only hope it's the nail in the coffin for NJ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phlyer1 Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Many communities are cutting the unions off at the knees and appears the NHL owners are of the same mind. In unity their is strength so curtail the bargaining power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 For anyone to say Bettman has been bad for the league shows an amazing lack of awareness. They brought him in after his success with the MBA and the NHL has done nothing but improve since. They've made more money and experienced more success than ever before. The last lockout was by his design and it's what brought the salary cap. That salary cap is a large part of what's made the league stronger. Now it needs tweaked so the war drums are out. Yeah sure he said fans will return and threatens a lockout. Have you ever seen a negotiation where a leader says they won't go to extremes? That negotiator would be a failure.Hate Bettman all you want. The league has grown leaps and bounds under him. Anyone who chooses to be blind to that is a fool. Buy jersies all you want, that doesn't make people watch the games. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
behnam Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 Hey thanks for response, but you didn't give me any specifics of how he has improved the league. My nephew by the way is a great Flyers fan eventhough he was born in LA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 @behnam I hate the guy as much as anyone else, but the fact is....under Bettman, the leauge has increased revenue 7 straight seasons, in that time span, almost doubling the total revenue. The league has a major contract with NBC under Gary, so at least they can attract new fans....that was not happening with Versus or The Outdoor Network. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 Many communities are cutting the unions off at the knees and appears the NHL owners are of the same mind. In unity their is strength so curtail the bargaining power.Neither side has any product without the other.Anyone looking to find some Randian Paradise in this situation is going to be badly disappointed from the jump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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