Homer | Amnesty | Buyout - "All For It"

[JackStraw]

A little? Guess I need to try harder.

Could be I'm just a little slow.

[Polaris922]

Bryzgalov is known for weak lateral movement, but there are two issues with this... A decent defense prevents this from being an issue most of the time, and didn't he also have a fractured foot or something he was nursing towards the end of the season? Or am I remembering our analysts incorrectly?

[mojo1917]

@Polaris922

you are correct on all accounts, he did have an broken foot bone or some crap at the end of the season.

[flyercanuck]

Bryzgalov is known for weak lateral movement, but there are two issues with this... A decent defense prevents this from being an issue most of the time, and didn't he also have a fractured foot or something he was nursing towards the end of the season? Or am I remembering our analysts incorrectly?

Yes, you are right. That doesn't account for his poor lateral movement all through the regular season though. Or his bad glove hand. Or the fact he looks like he's never handled a puck before. Or his wacko personality.

[Mad Dog]

Bryzgalov is known for weak lateral movement, but there are two issues with this... A decent defense prevents this from being an issue most of the time, and didn't he also have a fractured foot or something he was nursing towards the end of the season? Or am I remembering our analysts incorrectly?

I would be willing to accept this as at least a partial justification for his struggles if it wasn't for a simple fact that he SUCKED for most of the regular season... when he didn't have any injured parts of his body.

He is what he is and we are stuck with him... The only thing that could possibly help him if the team designs a defensive approach that allows the defense to collapse in front of him and clutter the crease, which is what Phoenix did. If you think about it though this is utterly pathetic and sad that the coach basically needs to design the way the team plays specifically to bail out his goalie and cover up for the goalie’s inaptitude. Add this to the fact that this was supposed to be our franchise goalie, and one can understand why people may be getting depressed with the immediate future of this team.

[Polaris922]

I would be willing to accept this as at least a partial justification for his struggles if it wasn't for a simple fact that he SUCKED for most of the regular season... when he didn't have any injured parts of his body.

He is what he is and we are stuck with him... The only thing that could possibly help him if the team designs a defensive approach that allows the defense to collapse in front of him and clutter the crease, which is what Phoenix did. If you think about it though this is utterly pathetic and sad that the coach basically needs to design the way the team plays specifically to bail out his goalie and cover up for the goalie’s inaptitude. Add this to the fact that this was supposed to be our franchise goalie, and one can understand why people may be getting depressed with the immediate future of this team.

The problem I have with the 19 votes against Bryzgalov is that it's not in the best interest of the Flyers, that I can see. Nobody voting to get rid of him has said who your goalie will be when he's gone. So Beyzgalov will be gone and you'll have gone from a middle of the pack goaltender to an AHL talent like Leighton?

The amnesty option for a GM would mean having a replacement for what you're losing. What are your solutions here? Free agency is a dud on goalies. Trade some of your young talent away for a starting goalie? Or miss the playoffs with Leighton and shoot for the draft lottery pick?

[mojo1917]

@Polaris922

Bryz's contract is terrible i think he's signed until 2023 or something, that may be a slight exaggeration but , ick that's a long time to pay that much for his mediocrity. So you dump this lock out year, and make a move to bring in a guy like Bernier from LA who is going no where with Quick in front of him or another, high ceiling guy who is blocked by the talent in front of him. If you have to move a piece to make that happen , well, we have some forwards signed to good cap contract numbers that could work .

[jammer2]

@Mad Dog I really don't think we are stuck with him MD....he has yet to feel the full fury of the Philly media and fans. A few bad months (lol, prob games) and he will see unprededented hostility. I get the feeling Flyer fans are ready to pounce...and when that happens, they will unleash. Sure he can collect his money and just get booed....but I think his mental make up is so that he will want to get out of town ....quick, esp after a few years of this...it would become mentally tiring to the point where he would just want out.

[King Knut]

If he doesn't play again, his contract is moved to the LTIR. Contracts on the LTIR do not count against the cap. The Flyers still pay his contract on the LTIR but lets be realistic money doesn't particularly stop the Flyers. It would be a waste in terms of CBA and cap space if they bought him out.

Not sure why our best playoff performer in the past 3-4 years is on the list... (Briere)

Bryzgalov is the logical choice if he bombs again this season.

shamus agrees with this Agree With This

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The problem is that LTIR and the over 35 thing really handcuff the team when it comes to LTIR and Waivers and a few other things that have made it difficult in the past.

From a certain standpoint, yes, I agree it does make more sense to unbuckle yourself from Bryz, but the only problem I have then is that they'd still need a goalie.

Would you resign him under a new shorter contract so he gets paid double for the duration of that contract? Would that even be permitted? If not what would you do in net?

Signing Bryz was Homer's biggest oopsie moment thus far. Well that and trading Richards probably didn't need to happen. Not that Bryz was a bad idea and not that I don't like Schenn and Wayne.

I had hoped that Homer (and who knows, maybe he tried and Lombardini wasn't having any) would go for Quick last year. Short contract, affordable. RFA in few years and at that point, Quick was still thought of as a "could be" guy, not a sure fire Conn Smythe candidate Cup Winning goalie.

So In Essence, I'd rather have traded Richards for Quick and saved $12-$15 per year or so that I might have used elsewhere than essentially trading him for Bryz, Schenn and Simmonds and losing money on the deal. But anyway, moot point. Maybe Quick was the Kings 100% non negotiable no can do guy.

Ultimately, my point remains the same. If anyone else gets hurt, we're in Waiver issue land and could end up losing quality players or eating a good portion of salary anyway.

But then again Bryz is here until the end of time and like an idiot, Homer gave him a NMC so Bryz decides how long Bryz stays in Philly and let's face it... he's a lunatic and shouldn't be in charge of deciding anything.

[Mad Dog]

Nobody voting to get rid of him has said who your goalie will be when he's gone.

I like Mojo's idea of going after Bernier. He has no future with LA untill something terrible happens to Quick. Quick is LA's Brodeur. But there would need to be a plan... Holmgren first will need to find the way to lose Bryzgalov. I am not savvy enough to know how amnesty works and whether Bryz even qualifies... It may not be that easy. If not, then there owuld probably need to be a plan B to lose him, which won't be a walk in teh park because no GM in his right mind will want to come close to that gargantuan contract.

[Polaris922]

I like Mojo's idea of going after Bernier. He has no future with LA untill something terrible happens to Quick. Quick is LA's Brodeur. But there would need to be a plan... Holmgren first will need to find the way to lose Bryzgalov. I am not savvy enough to know how amnesty works and whether Bryz even qualifies... It may not be that easy. If not, then there owuld probably need to be a plan B to lose him, which won't be a walk in teh park because no GM in his right mind will want to come close to that gargantuan contract.

@mojo1917

Well right now Dog there IS no amnesty so it doesn't "work" anyway. The question was posted purely hypothetically and that's what we're working with. So if the idea is to dump Bryz and go after Bernier... what are the Flyer's faithful willing to surrender to get him becomes the next question. THAT's my big hangup on dumping Bryzgalov before he gets a sophomore season in with the Flyers. There is no easy backup goalie for you, and a guy like Bernier is going to cost... so what are you willing to trade?? And will dumping Bryz and trading for a Bernier be too costly overall?

[flyercanuck]

@mojo1917

Well right now Dog there IS no amnesty so it doesn't "work" anyway. The question was posted purely hypothetically and that's what we're working with. So if the idea is to dump Bryz and go after Bernier... what are the Flyer's faithful willing to surrender to get him becomes the next question. THAT's my big hangup on dumping Bryzgalov before he gets a sophomore season in with the Flyers. There is no easy backup goalie for you, and a guy like Bernier is going to cost... so what are you willing to trade?? And will dumping Bryz and trading for a Bernier be too costly overall?

Not if Bernier is a legit NHL goalie.

[Polaris922]

Not if Bernier is a legit NHL goalie.

What if the asking price is Couturier and Voracek? Or Schenn and Hartnell? Simmonds and both Schenns? What price are you willing to pay for Bernier in that scenario?

[mojo1917]

@mojo1917

Well right now Dog there IS no amnesty so it doesn't "work" anyway. The question was posted purely hypothetically and that's what we're working with. So if the idea is to dump Bryz and go after Bernier... what are the Flyer's faithful willing to surrender to get him becomes the next question. THAT's my big hangup on dumping Bryzgalov before he gets a sophomore season in with the Flyers. There is no easy backup goalie for you, and a guy like Bernier is going to cost... so what are you willing to trade?? And will dumping Bryz and trading for a Bernier be too costly overall?

a couple of things, one is when is bernier's contract up ? maybe he can be had for money only, i'm not in the mood to go to cap geek and look it up but maybe that works out. that would be ideal. after all in my scenario we're letting the young team gel for another year and rolling with leighton or some other AHL guy between the pipes and making a play in the off season of 12/13.

so whom would i trade? well... the guy is a backup in his current situation, so while his ceiling may be high, he's not out there throwing around .920 & 2.40 in 45 starts , so i'm thinking i would consider a top 9 guy and a pick, or a prospect and a two picks, Nick Cousins could have a field day training the cougars in LA, Hi yo ! maybe LA has need for a grinder type so it may not take elite talent to bring a guy like Bernier to the team, what did Tampa trade for Lindback, i know there was some flotsam along with him in that deal, so they traded caron and two picks essentially , do i have that right ? any way i would try to fashion a similar deal to what stevie y put together for Lindback.

edit: I don't think I trade either schenn or couturier for Bernier if that's the price then i look for a different guy in a similar situation...

we tried that with Biron he was too good for the AHL, but had Hasek and/then Miller ahead of him in buffalo, when you scouted that guy in the A he seemed like a man among boys, seeing his numbers and putting the eyeballs on him in rochester he looked like an NHL goalie, and he is he's just not that elite guy, but there are other situations around the league where there may be a log jam at goalie and a young guy with talent can be had without wrecking your roster.

[flyercanuck]

What if the asking price is Couturier and Voracek? Or Schenn and Hartnell? Simmonds and both Schenns? What price are you willing to pay for Bernier in that scenario?

Why would anyone pay that for a backup?

[Polaris922]

Why would anyone pay that for a backup?

Because LA can afford to require it and they would know you were interested in him as a starter, not a backup? You'd have to make them a good offer to get them interested. I'm just asking what you think a fair price would be. It's not going to be a second round pick like the Lindback deal was for Tampa. Bernier was an eleventh overall pick and has lived up to it in what time he's seen.

[jammer2]

@Polaris922 Totally agree Polaris....the only reason Bernier is not playing more is because he's stuck behind one of the very best goalies in the world. The asking price will be much higher than Lindback (as it should be). I'm saying a 1st rounder and Cousins should get it done...and I'd be more than willing to pay that price. He's not a 100% proven commodity, so there is some risk there, but I've seen him enough to be confident it's the right move. The other thing to consider is there will be more than one suitor, so there will be multiple teams involved, so that will jack the price up also.

Of course, this is all hypothetical, would only happen if there is a one time buy out. I really think there will be a buy out included in the CBA, there will be some kind of a reduction in the cap (the NHL will insist on it), so they have to have a buy out to help the many, many teams who are up tight against the cap. It works ok for the NHLPA because the players get the full amount owed to them and then have a shot to make more money through a new contract...so a win/win there.

[flyercanuck]

@Polaris922

A first rounder.

Couturier AND Voracek? Simmonds and both Schenns? For Quick maybe. Goalies just don't bring a whole lot in trade value for some reason. Especially backups.

[mojo1917]

Because LA can afford to require it and they would know you were interested in him as a starter, not a backup? You'd have to make them a good offer to get them interested. I'm just asking what you think a fair price would be. It's not going to be a second round pick like the Lindback deal was for Tampa. Bernier was an eleventh overall pick and has lived up to it in what time he's seen.

the LIndback deal had a lot of pieces, a couple of depth players exchanged in addition to the Goalies and picks, I think the upshot of it was; Caron and 2 second round picks.

i would do a deal like that in a heartbeat.

[jammer2]

@mojo1917 How does Stevie Y secure his goalie of the future for so damn cheap...it's MADDENING!! We have to commit 50 mill and 10 years to a stiff and he gets a young up and comer for dirt cheap.....it's just not fair!!

[mojo1917]

@jammer2

i know right, well, Lindback hasn't done anything yet... he may wind up being Marty Biron.

i agree that stevie is a shrewd business man and a keen evaluator or talent though. good quality canadian hockey man.

[jammer2]

@mojo1917 Agreed, he is not a proven commodity, but WELL worth the risk.....which was basically piddley squat.

[radoran]

@mojo1917 How does Stevie Y secure his goalie of the future for so damn cheap...it's MADDENING!! We have to commit 50 mill and 10 years to a stiff and he gets a young up and comer for dirt cheap.....it's just not fair!!

Well, I'm sure we should have all the confidence in the world that the people who created the problem will fix it.

[Mad Dog]

Well, I'm sure we should have all the confidence in the world that the people who created the problem will fix it.

No comments.

[jammer2]

@Podein25 From the same guy who boldly stated that "incest is ok, in some instances"....LOL! The Superfan, the only man who can argue a point enough to pound ANYONE into submission....I'd love to see him and aziz haggle over a point, cyber space would not be big enough!