idahophilly Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 So what is hockey related revenue anyway? I did a quick search and didn't find out what is and isn't considered revenue. And, I'm not going to read volumes of financials and such to find out, atleast not now.The next question is why do I care or why should any fan care? Well, it seems this is a huge sticking point. The players are saying that not all legit revenues are being counted hence the teams are actually making more money than is being reported and that's why they want more than 50%.The teams are saying they are spending more money than is counted (hockey being the most expensive sport to support) and so there is their claim that the players deserve less than 50%...Before we put on our acountant hats I have a side note... If I ran my business like this the IRS would throw me in jail. I suppose all is on the up and up in the teams tax filings but an expense is an expense and a income stream is an income stream. Is it really that complicated to base the hockey related revenue on that? It's either an expense or an income stream, line by line...So, since I have not found out what is or isn't HRR, lets form a list. Feel free to add to it. Also, what are the expenses, to be fair to both sides.I'll get it started...Income:Ticket salesConcessionsParkingTV DealsRadio RightsMerchandiseArena AdvertisingExpenses:Player SalariesCoaching StaffScouting StaffTravel (Planes/meals/lodging)Facility MaintanenceFacility Leases (includeing practice facilities)Management team salariesAdvertising/MarketingLeague Dues?Payments to weak teamsPlayer EquipmentAHL/Minor League affiliatesInsuranceI'll hold up there for right now and add to it. (though this off the top of my head list does favor the owners argument however it does NOT answer the real question, which of these things are being factored in and which ones are not???) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I don't know if it's all black and white like that....sure concessions is income, but it's an expense until it actually gets sold to the consumer. Somebody has to pay to ship in the truck full of hot dogs...loading and unloading...cleaning the concession stand...(ok I went to far...LOL) ...the labour frying up the hot dog etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idahophilly Posted September 18, 2012 Author Share Posted September 18, 2012 I thought of that. So I'd go with the end result with concessions. If after the expenses (the workers, product, shipping, energy, ect) and sales, was it profitable or a loss? I assume it's a profit so I put it in the income section with the expectation we are talking the net income after expenses and not the gross income... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idahophilly Posted September 18, 2012 Author Share Posted September 18, 2012 same as parking... There are worker salaries, repaving costs, ect... But again, I assume there is some sort of net profit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idahophilly Posted September 18, 2012 Author Share Posted September 18, 2012 ...the labour frying up the hot dog etc...I prefer to think of cheesesteaks though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerrod Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 The reason you can't find a definitive list is that is the owners don't want you to. They don't even want the players to know what all is being pulled from the HRR pool of money. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DinahMoeHumm Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 If after the expenses (the workers, product, shipping, energy, ect) and sales, was it profitable or a loss?I don't care how many people they have working the stands frying, cleaning, ringing people up... with the prices they charge for a dog and a beer, it's profit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DinahMoeHumm Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 The reason you can't find a definitive list is that is the owners don't want you to. They don't even want the players to know what all is being pulled from the HRR pool of money.Winner! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idahophilly Posted September 18, 2012 Author Share Posted September 18, 2012 The reason you can't find a definitive list is that is the owners don't want you to. They don't even want the players to know what all is being pulled from the HRR pool of money.Flyerrod, you hit the finishing nail right on the head with a pile driver!If I was Fehr, at this point I'd say "the negotiating process is done until you turn over a complete and comprehensive list of what is included in HRR to the NHLPA and public".However, I do recall something about each team handing over their finacial statements last month or the month before,. But, that still doesn't define what is considered HRR though for the sake of the CBA that is. Think on this though, the NHLPA must have seen something in those financials that makes them NOT want to go down to a 50/50 split... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerrod Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 If you look in the previous CBA pages 160 through about 190, you will see just how convoluted HRR really is. If you are not a lawyer(even if you are), please take two aspirin before attempting to read and follow the "definition".http://www.nhlfa.com/CBA/2005-CBA.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 @DinahMoeHumm Yeah, agreed....at the end of the day, if selling food was not profitable, they would not be in the business...simple as that. Same for parking etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idahophilly Posted September 18, 2012 Author Share Posted September 18, 2012 I guess I'm just looking at this to simplistic. I have done my business taxes and personal taxes. Looking at my business, when ALL the expenses and ALL the profits are calculated I come out with either a net loss or net profit. Surely each team comes up with that ultimate number...period. That would obviously include every revenue and every expense (unless they are cooking the books and the IRS isn't gonna like that).So why not include EVERYTHING, both expense and income and then split the league wide profit (which it is obviously profitable) 50/50 with the players. No games. No definitions. No clauses. Just the end # for each team. Figure all 30 teams up and split it 50/50. Why is that so difficult??? I guess I just don't understand... Have a set escrow for the players and a set % each profitable team spends to help the un-profitable teams. No fuss. No mess. The expectations are laid out clearly and everyone knows the score (pun intended).Then, instead of all the lockout crap, the focus can be on growing the sport/revenues which, with a 50/50 split, both sides share in equally. Instead of fighting each other (NHL vs NHLPA) they could work together. What's good for the players is good for the owners and vice versa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DinahMoeHumm Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 @idahophilly: Now why do you have to go and inject so much logic and rational thought into this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idahophilly Posted September 18, 2012 Author Share Posted September 18, 2012 Makes me wish I could go to NYC! I'd get my arse handed to me but I'd make them think, if even for a moment or two... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DinahMoeHumm Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 @idahophilly: You'd get your arse handed to you because they wouldn't want to hear anything that resembles rational thought and sound logic. That has absolutely no place in their discussions. But yes, you probably would make them think... "Hey, there are fans of the game out there who are onto our B.S.? This is unacceptable. Bill, get a hold of the PR people and have them issue another one of those statements from the league." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idahophilly Posted September 18, 2012 Author Share Posted September 18, 2012 I could have written a better letter to the fans than what the NHL offered, AND I wouldn't have even had to believe in the cause! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Well... if you're a professional hockey league, I'd say that all your revenue is "hockey-related". Unless Bettman is running a prostitution ring on the side somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DinahMoeHumm Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 @idahophilly: I'd venture to say you're rightUnless Bettman is running a prostitution ring on the side somewhere.I put nothing past Bettman... and stranger things have happened. Though if that money's funneling into the league, could that still qualify as hockey-related revenue? What if he's pimping these fine young women (or men, no need to exclude preferences) to the players? Is there a percentage of player escrow set aside for these "adventures?" A man's gotta relax, right? So many questions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 @idahophilly: I'd venture to say you're rightI put nothing past Bettman... and stranger things have happened. Though if that money's funneling into the league, could that still qualify as hockey-related revenue? What if he's pimping these fine young women (or men, no need to exclude preferences) to the players? Is there a percentage of player escrow set aside for these "adventures?" A man's gotta relax, right? So many questions...You raise some excellent, if somewhat disturbing, points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 @JackStraw Well, if it's possible to suck a golf ball through a garden hose, I guess it's also probable a hockey puck can be sucked through a Zamboni muffler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DinahMoeHumm Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 @JackStraw Well, if it's possible to suck a golf ball through a garden hose, I guess it's also probable a hockey puck can be sucked through a Zamboni muffler I like it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idahophilly Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 Both disturbing images! If Bettman is out pimpin' then it depends on if it's his own business or under the CBA... I here the CBA is big enough to bury anything in it... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DinahMoeHumm Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I here the CBA is big enough to bury anything in it...So would, I imagine, some of the girls Bettman would be pimping... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idahophilly Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 crack whores? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DinahMoeHumm Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 @idahophilly: Certainly a possibility. Bettman knows no bounds in terms of satisfying his ego. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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