Homer confirms that Read had a concussion

[brelic]

@davegisaac

Holmgren also confirmed, by the way, that Matt Read's three game absence was a concussion.

[Mad Dog]

Great. This is really becoming pandemic. The league has to do step in and do something radical before they lose half of the players to the retirement. Ridiculous.

[Lunatic]

Absolutely unreal. What the hell is their training staff doing, or not doing?

[Vincent05]

We need a new medical staff ASAP. Read had a concussion and came back so soon? Are the Flyers really rushing guys back before they're 100%?. Let's take bets on who is the next victim as it seems like every player on this team will get atleast 1 this year.

[Mad Dog]

The Flyers' medical stuff is completely incompetent. They have been proving it over and over again.

But the bigger issue is the growing number and frequency of concussions in the NHL. There have to be changes made.

[brelic]

We need a new medical staff ASAP. Read had a concussion and came back so soon? Are the Flyers really rushing guys back before they're 100%?. Let's take bets on who is the next victim as it seems like every player on this team will get atleast 1 this year.

But this is exactly that problem... what is 100%? If the player passes all the tests, matches his baseline tests, and says he feels fine... how are they supposed to know either way?

[brelic]

The Flyers' medical stuff is completely incompetent. They have been proving it over and over again.

But the bigger issue is the growing number and frequency of concussions in the NHL. There have to be changes made.

And I'm sure that's why Homer seems to be coming clean with the details about Pronger, Read, Schenn, Giroux, etc.

[Bakanekimiwa]

Great. This is really becoming pandemic. The league has to do step in and do something radical before they lose half of the players to the retirement. Ridiculous.

and remember that elbow to the head from leino!? wonder how that might have played into it. i mean... i know they have their baseline tests and all that, but let's face it, read's a young guy trying to make it in the nhl and this is the best opportunity for him right here and now. would not come as a shocker for him to downplay any symptoms.

[aziz]

But the bigger issue is the growing number and frequency of concussions in the NHL. There have to be changes made.

i don't disagree...but what changes?? a lot of these issues are not coming from egregious head shots, they're coming from weirdo follow-throughs into pronger's face, or accidental glancing blows to giroux's head, or incidental bumps to crosby as players turn to follow the play.

what i don't get is how every single tiny bit of contact to a player's head is now causing a concussion. guy sneezes too hard and he misses the next three weeks. wtf is going on that hockey players are now to a one made of paper mache? not to disrespect anyone, but who here hasn't had a knee to the head while playing hockey?

[idahophilly]

Homer just said today if pronger was feeling better by the playoffs, he wouldn't close the door to the possibility.

[Mad Dog]

i don't disagree...but what changes?? a lot of these issues are not coming from egregious head shots, they're coming from weirdo follow-throughs into pronger's face, or accidental glancing blows to giroux's head, or incidental bumps to crosby as players turn to follow the play.

what i don't get is how every single tiny bit of contact to a player's head is now causing a concussion. guy sneezes too hard and he misses the next three weeks. wtf is going on that hockey players are now to a one made of paper mache? not to disrespect anyone, but who here hasn't had a knee to the head while playing hockey?

Giroux was a freak accident inflicted by the player of his own team. sh!t happens. But the rest are over-exuberant hits, elbows, and headshots. I don’t know…… but there’s gotta be a reason why when Clarke played concussions were almost unheard of, which is why many players even played without helmets, and now, like I said, it’s not even epidemics but pandemics. There's gotta be a reason for this ridiculoulsy increased number of concussions.

Maybe the rules have to be tighter, maybe the equipment needs to be strengthened…. I really don’t know. But I am sick to my stomach with a very thought of not being able to watch Crosby or Giroux play this game.

[aziz]

but there’s gotta be a reason why when Clarke played concussions were almost unheard

i'm right there with you, but i can't for the life of me figure out what that reason is. yeah, there have been some nasty hits getting the by line on some of these concussions, but giroux, pronger and crosby were something different. even read, assuming the leino elbow caused it...that was not a crazy hit. yeah, a bad hit, but we've seen things many many times worse than that over the years. but now it results in a concussion and read is out indefinitely, as far as we know.

i mean, this happens:

and then kappy comes back to play tampa 4 nights later, never missing a beat. today, he'd be out for the rest of the playoffs and questionable for camp the next fall.

i really have no idea what's going on. little, tiny, previously irrelevant things are now laying guys up for weeks, months, forever. i seriously can't figure it out.

[SoCalFlyfan]

I don't think there really are more concussions, it's just that these things are labeled now and diagnosed much quicker. Maybe it's an insurance thing. By labeling it right away it protects the team for insurance purposes.

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

Absolutely unreal. What the hell is their training staff doing, or not doing?

The Flyers' medical stuff is completely incompetent. They have been proving it over and over again.

But the bigger issue is the growing number and frequency of concussions in the NHL. There have to be changes made.

I don't get the connection. Not quite sure why this is a training/medical staff incompetency issue. These guys are getting concussions on the ice, not in the training room.

[canoli]

but there’s gotta be a reason why when Clarke played concussions were almost unheard of, which is why many players even played without helmets, and now, like I said, it’s not even epidemics but pandemics. There's gotta be a reason for this ridiculoulsy increased number of concussions.

maybe i missed it in this thread - if I did, apologies to whoever said it first - but the answer - or the question I should say - isn't "why are there so many more concussions now?" What we're seeing today is a result of better diagnosis. It's true the players are bigger and faster now certainly. But I don't believe there are more concussions these days, they're just getting better at diagnosing the damage is all.

Maybe the baseline test is too rigorous and so we're seeing the "concussion" label tacked on to every headache. Maybe the diagnosis isn't actually better it's just more sensitive. I'd bet if we were diagnosing things 10 years ago the way we are today we'd see the same amount of "concussions" then as now.

don't you think?

[SoCalFlyfan]

But I don't believe there are more concussions these days, they're just getting better at diagnosing the damage is all.

This exactly what it is. Teams are diagnosing and throwing the label 'concussion' on anything that closely resembles any symptoms, most likely as I said earlier for insurance purposes. This is to prevent a player down the line from claiming 'damages' from an undiagnosed concussion that effects their quality of life after hockey.

It's just like this everywhere though. It used to be a kid would slip and fall during recess and no one payed attention. Now a kid falls and 12 different teacher aides come running from all directions, helicopters are dispatched, and ambulances are there within seconds to put a band aid on some kids knee.

[brelic]

maybe i missed it in this thread - if I did, apologies to whoever said it first - but the answer - or the question I should say - isn't "why are there so many more concussions now?" What we're seeing today is a result of better diagnosis. It's true the players are bigger and faster now certainly. But I don't believe there are more concussions these days, they're just getting better at diagnosing the damage is all.

Maybe the baseline test is too rigorous and so we're seeing the "concussion" label tacked on to every headache. Maybe the diagnosis isn't actually better it's just more sensitive. I'd bet if we were diagnosing things 10 years ago the way we are today we'd see the same amount of "concussions" then as now.

don't you think?

Totally agree, and I think the Kapanen video above typifies this. There are tons of other hits I'm sure we remember where the player was woozy and kept playing (Kariya comes to mind.. he came back and scored the GWG, and said much later that he doesn't remember that night). Remember when JR was plastered and looked much like Kapanen did? He kept playing too. He was a warrior!

Hell, I remember Laperriere when he took the puck to the face a few years back, and he came back IN THE SAME GAME! He ended up having a brain contusion. Ten, fifteen years ago, doctors weren't diagnosing things the way they are now. And fans looked at it as "warrior tough".

Now, not so much when you see the detrimental effects it can have AFTER a player retires.

You know, I'd be curious to see the results of an anonymous survey conducted by the NHLPA among retired players and have them evaluate if they have any of the typical symptoms of PCS and quality of life. I'm sure we'd be surprised.

[Mad Dog]

What we're seeing today is a result of better diagnosis. It's true the players are bigger and faster now certainly. But I don't believe there are more concussions these days, they're just getting better at diagnosing the damage is all.

Maybe the baseline test is too rigorous and so we're seeing the "concussion" label tacked on to every headache. Maybe the diagnosis isn't actually better it's just more sensitive. I'd bet if we were diagnosing things 10 years ago the way we are today we'd see the same amount of "concussions" then as now.

don't you think?

I hear your point loud and clear, but I don't know if I completely agree with it. Here is why I don't think your theory is true.

When people are concussed, beleive me - they know there is something really wrong with them. Don't want to call it a concussion? Fine. I can see how 30 years ago, with sports neurology not being anywhere near the level it is now, people could misdiagnoze or not diagnoze concussion. But the player would know there is something wrong with him. In fact, look no further than what we are seing with Pronger. The first thing I read when this whole fiasco happened is he complained about some vague symptoms and said he "never felt like this before". Only *later* he was diagnozed with a concussion.

My point is, if the players in the 70's and 80's were concussed at the same rate as they are today, they would know it, and the media and we, fans, would hear about that. Again, we may not have been hearing the word concussion per se, but we would hear about these issues. They may've been referred to as head injuries, or something else, but we *would* hear about them. Injuries like knees, elbows, shoulders, groin, etc. were always there. But I've been watching hockey since the mid-70's, and I don't remember seing such an outburst of head injuries in hockey as I've seen over the last 10 years.

The baseline tests you are talking about certainly help with diagnosis to draw a red line under the word CONCUSSION. But the head injury is as clear as a day: you either have it or you don't. It's more than a bad headache. I had it and I can tell you: when you have a concussion, there is no doubt in your mind that there is something terribly wrong with you. Again, you may not know you are concussed. Hell, you may not even know what the word concussion even means. But rest assured, you *will* know you are not right and the last thing you will want to do is to step a foot on the ice.

[phlfly]

it's consequence of this faster game, after grabbing and holding was ruled out

[canoli]

Hmm, maybe I missed it but I didn't read where you disagree with me. I know when you get a good knock to the head you're certainly aware of it. Only you truly know if you're right afterward, or if you're seriously hurt or whatever. But why are you so sure we would've heard about them [concussions in the '70s, '80s etc), "we" as in the fans, the media or anyone else? Back then (and right up until today) if you got your bell rung you laughed it off as best you could. Nobody could afford to miss games for all the same reasons they can't afford to miss them now: money, job security and accountability to your teammates and coaches. The order has changed maybe over the years but the reasons are the same. Nobody wants to miss games due to injury, especially not one with such a history of macho neglect associated with it.

The same ethic exists today but it's getting blasted on all sides by the media, the teams and by the NHL itself. The word was out about concussions before Sid got hurt; it was brewing for awhile after Primeau retired, then JR and his "I had 15 concussions in my career" statements...but Crosby, now Pronger and Giroux, Michalek, Skinner...they really accelerated the storyline. So now the attention to brain injuries is an unstoppable force. Why? Because underneath the hype and the overreaction is the impulse to protect our brains and it's (generally) the right one (!). We'll go through a period of overly-rigorous, extra-sensitive interpretations of head shots and then it will smooth itself out; the media will move on to its next feeding frenzy.

Team sports at every level are under a microscope these days. Pro team owners in response are taking very public action to protect their two most valuable investments, their players and their image. Eventually a knock to the head that slows a player down for 3 strides won't be front page headlines. But from now on the bigger hits and their long-term consequences will be taken seriously, regardless what the unwritten rules were "back when." I'm sure we agree that's probably a good thing.

[Mad Dog]

i'm right there with you, but i can't for the life of me figure out what that reason is.

The only thing I can think of is that players, today, have absolutely no respect for each other. Scott Stevens, for better or worse, essentially gave birth to these vicious hits to the head. And then you see more and more of similar type injuries. Perhaps players like Cook or Kunitz just really started polishing this particular skill with a goal to make it their mark. Who really knows.

Look at that Max Pacioretty's hit on Letang. That was a vicious, ferocious hit. I am not even talking right now about the legality of the hit. I am talking just about the sheer brutality and viciousness. I don't know - and nobody other than Pacioretty knows - if there was an intent to injure. The hit of Tucker on Kapanen that you are attaching here is in that same category: brutal, vicious, and nasty. There were certainly good, honest checks in the 70's and 80's, but I honestly don't remember so much of outright violance.

And I don't even know whether this violance is good or bad for the game. But what I *do* know is that I don't want the Lindroses, Savards, Crosbys, Letangs, and Giroux of the world end their careers so prematurely because of concussions. Something needs to be done. What exactly? I'd like to hope there are enough sharp people in the league who can figure that out.

Edited December 17, 2011 by Mad Dog

[eurofly]

I read from somewhere that also the equipment are a factor in these head injuries. They are much harder than what they have been and when the manufacturer "improves/hardens" the equipment they are really taking it to a wrong direction. When they harden the shoulder pads, they are thinking of protecting the shoulders, but are not thinking how much it hurts, when someone is hit in the head (by a player with a lot of speed and 200lbs).

This article was written back in the days of Lindros and might be that the manufacturers have began to think the big picture when producing the equipment, but I haven't seen anything about this afterwards, so I don't actually know if this is part of the issue still.

Edited December 17, 2011 by eurofly

[Mad Dog]

Hmm, maybe I missed it but I didn't read where you disagree with me. I know when you get a good knock to the head you're certainly aware of it. Only you truly know if you're right afterward, or if you're seriously hurt or whatever. But why are you so sure we would've heard about them [concussions in the '70s, '80s etc), "we" as in the fans, the media or anyone else?

Because a truly concussed player would miss time. Would have to.... You cannot - CANNOT - play with a concussion. If I pay you money and ask you not to eat for two days, you can do it. If I ask you not to sleep for few nights, you can do it. It will be hard on you, surely, but you can do it if you have stamina. But if I ask you to play at your normal level when you are concussed, you CANNOT do it. That is, if you are truly concussed.

That's why I say we would know. And it's normally more than one day. So when the player misses a significant time, how would that be possible to hide it. Clarke tried to hide it once with that whole Lindros saga; and I am not even saying he did it on purpose. Maybe he was mislead by the Flyers' medical staff. But we all know how that ended.

When, like you said, you have your bell rung, or you have whiplash, sure, you can play through it. But concussion? No sir. No job security, money, fame, image or anything else can make you play. You physically cannot. The symptoms are too severe for you to play. The player would be forced to miss time... and, as a result, that would've welled up to the surface. But we hardly heard of players missing time due to head injuries until literally the beginning of this century.

[canoli]

oh okay I got your point now. And it's a good one regarding extremely serious concussions, like where somebody gets knocked cold and has to be carried out on a stretcher. Those cases are still rare and I agree with you about them, there's no way to fake that - fake recovery from them I mean.

I guess I'd only remind you that it takes a pretty serious concussion to keep a pro NHLer out of the lineup - at least it used to. Many of us here have had a concussion - sports, car crashes, whatever. They fk you up for a few days - unless it's really bad, then it's months I guess (I never had one that severe). But I'd say the motivation is so high in pro sports to play - to be in the lineup - that anything short of an extremely severe injury and you'll suit up. And you won't tell anyone how you feel - not really.

Now with the mandatory testing and all it's getting a lot easier to keep a guy sidelined. We'll have to wait and see how it plays out, whether all this attention was good for the sport.

[aziz]

The only thing I can think of is that players, today, have absolutely no respect for each other.....There were certainly good, honest checks in the 70's and 80's, but I honestly don't remember so much of outright violance.

i was tempted to get into a whole thing about the myth of respect back in the day of eye gouging, hair pulling, beating unconcious opponents, breaking opposition players' ankles, cross checks to the face, going into the stands after fans, etc, etc, etc, but it isn't really relevant. the injuries we have been talking about here, crosby, pronger, giroux, read, none of them were from flagrant displays of disrespect. crosby caught a glacing and unintentional blow from a guy's shoulder pad, pronger got hit in the face with a stick, giroux had his own teammate accidentally knee him in the head, and read got caught by an intentional but not crazy violent elbow. none of these happened from lack of respect (well, ok leino's was, but watch it...for as a$$hole a play as it was, we've seen way way way worse happen many many times). somehow, for some reason, it looks to me like player tolerance is somehow less than it was. there was a time when goalies didn't wear masks, having slapshots tear their noses off their face and then getting stitched up and were ready to start the next period. today, crosby is out because he bumped into someone. i don't understand what it is that's going on, but something has changed and it has nothing to do with respect.

But what I *do* know is that I don't want the Lindroses, Savards, Crosbys, Letangs, and Giroux of the world end their careers so prematurely because of concussions. Something needs to be done. What exactly? I'd like to hope there are enough sharp people in the league who can figure that out.

sure, that would be nice. but again, i don't know what you do when every bit of incidental contact leaves a guy on the IR for months. crosby, pronger, giroux, read, only one of those had anything to do with something illegal being done. how do you stop what happened to the other three??

it's weird to the point where i'm wondering if there is something about the current training regimens that is somehow contributing. is it possible that there's some unexpected cause and effect here? some connection between extreme cardio training and a thinning of the spinal fluid in the skull? is the 365 day/yr workout routine somehow creating an unforseen weakness in these guys? i have no idea at all...but these injuries are coming from incidents that have been commonplace forever. suddenly they have career ending consequences. again, who here that has played hockey has NOT been hit in the head by a knee? and now giroux is out indeffinitely?? something has changed, and it has nothing to do with respect.

edit: hey, what's up with the auto-correct censoring stuff? a$$hole, sh!t. no big deal, but what happened?

Edited December 17, 2011 by aziz