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Homer confirms that Read had a concussion


Guest brelic

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well I have to agree with that, Giroux's status - "out indefinitely" - is pretty surprising from a hit like that. I watched it 20 times and for the life of me it just doesn't look so terrible. A knock to the back of the head, which we've all had happen to us many times. I understood the precautionary bit, keeping out of the rest of that game. Even the following game, okay. But "out indefinitely?"

The only logical explanation is that the hit really was pretty bad. I don't think we need to look for mystical explanations or anything weird. The hit was worse than it looked that's all, and Giroux really does have a concussion - or at least enough symptoms that look like a concussion.

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I read from somewhere that also the equipment are a factor in these head injuries. They are much harder than what they have been and when the manufacturer "improves/hardens" the equipment they are really taking it to a wrong direction. When they harden the shoulder pads, they are thinking of protecting the shoulders, but are not thinking how much it hurts, when someone is hit in the head (by a player with a lot of speed and 200lbs).

This article was written back in the days of Lindros and might be that the manufacturers have began to think the big picture when producing the equipment, but I haven't seen anything about this afterwards, so I don't actually know if this is part of the issue still.

I think this and the lack of respect amongst players could be the driving factors behind the increase in concussions. Even after accounting for the increase in diagnosis and better detection (two different things).

Potential solution, three parts:

- Coach your players to be respectful. Accidents happen, but intent to injure is not cool.

- Adjust equipment. No more hard top layer on pads above the waist, except for the helmet to a degree.

- Baseline MRI exams of the brain, annually. Each instance of a suspected concussion will have an MRI to confirm or exclude. I think the MRI should be able to show the swelling or decreased blood flow.

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Just a left field question. Are concussions a big deal in the NFL lately? The NFL is the BIG SHOW in town. Is this really a problem just in the NHL or across pro sports in the USA?

Colt McCoy, QB of the Browns just got one from a dirty helmet to helmet hit from the scumbag Jerome Harrison, OLB Pittsburgh Steelers.

The NFL has more players wear mouth guards and their helmets appear much more robust. Their game is also slower. It's also harder to really tee someone up legally in the NFL.

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it's weird to the point where i'm wondering if there is something about the current training regimens that is somehow contributing. is it possible that there's some unexpected cause and effect here? some connection between extreme cardio training and a thinning of the spinal fluid in the skull? is the 365 day/yr workout routine somehow creating an unforseen weakness in these guys? i have no idea at all...but these injuries are coming from incidents that have been commonplace forever. suddenly they have career ending consequences. again, who here that has played hockey has NOT been hit in the head by a knee? and now giroux is out indeffinitely?? something has changed, and it has nothing to do with respect.

There's no mystery. Probably the main reason we see more concussions now is that there is simply a MUCH greater awareness and understanding of what these injuries are and what the consequences can be. Growing up we used to play pickup games of tackle football without pads. I remember several occasions where I tacked someone and got up a little wobbly and was "seeing stars". You know, those little green lights that kind of float around in front of your eyes? Back then that was called "getting your bell rung". No big deal and you just kept playing (whether you were a kid on the playground or a linebacker in the NFL).

In addition, players are bigger and faster now than they were then. Bigger + faster = more violent collisions. And then add in the improvements in equipment. Just like in the NFL, better protective equipment has led players to play with less regard for their own (and others') safety. Today there is a rule in the NFL against using the helmet as a weapon. When Steve van Buren played, they didn't worry about that because a leather helmet isn't much of a weapon.

Edited by JackStraw
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does that mean that most of these guys could play if they wanted to, and the main difference is our awareness of a less-than-obvious condition, versus the lack of awareness in years past? in other words, in years past, giroux/read/crosby would have returned and been no obvious worse for wear?

i guess that's part of my confusion. on the one hand, we're being told that these guys have ongoing symptoms and are unable to play at a high level due to them...but kappy played in the next game after tucker crushed him, JR came back after one month when he had that shot break his face, jacques plante had his nose ripped off his face and they just paused the game long enough for him to get stiched up (and grab his mask). none of those guys seemed slowed down or really in any way lessened by the concussions today's standards seem to indicate they had to have had. could giroux play this afternoon at his previous league-leading pace, or is he really suffering something that is actively debilitating? if the former, then i get it, we are just being way more sensative to the whole thing that we were in the past. if the latter, though, then something is different.

people earlier in this thread (i think) said a player CAN NOT play effectively if concussed. if the only change has been our awareness to the condition, why didn't we see guys like kappy and JR skating around in perpetual fogs? kappy had 4 points in the next 7 games, and JR went on to put up 13 points in the playoffs 6 weeks after hit in the face.

if we are just more aware, is it possible we are starting to become...overly aware, to the point of paranoid? the list of names sitting out at this point is becoming staggering. are they all really incapable of playing? crosby, pronger, giroux, read, skinner, michalek, richards, gerbe, mueller, schenn, mcdonald, beagle, goc, neiderreiter, letang, staal, pitkanen, zidlicky. or would half of them have been back already in years past, playing with no apparent issues?

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@aziz

Yes, I think a lot of these guys could play. But that doesn't mean that they should play. I know that plenty of NFL players got "knocked woozy" but stayed in the game. I seem to remember some instances where guys stayed in the game but afterwards didn't remember much of it. I mean, just look at boxing- a guy gets knocked down, manages to get up before he's counted out, and the fight continues... that guy almost certainly suffered a concussion. I know that even boxing has tightened up the rules in recent years so I'm just using that as an example of the way things used to be, even if they're different now.

But in hockey I definitely think the size and speed of the game has increased dramatically and there are more violent collisions. Just compare videos of play from recent years to video from the days of the Broad Street Bullies, it's almost like a different sport now. Imo, the best thing to do (even if it isn't a complete solution) is to go to the bigger ice surface. More open ice = fewer collisions = fewer injuries. Unfortunately, since they'd have to remove a bunch of seats to make it happen it also = fewer $$$. So I doubt the owners will do it.

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There's no mystery. Probably the main reason we see more concussions now is that there is simply a MUCH greater awareness and understanding of what these injuries are and what the consequences can be.

OK, but as I mentioned to Canoli, this only addresses awareness and diagnosis aspects. But how do we explain a mere fact that more players miss time with head injuries today?

Let's say there is a Flyers-Bruins game in 1973 and John McKenzie is going off the ice and doesn't come back. Then he misses 5-10 games with something weird. But whatever the docs or media or whoever else calls it, there would still be at least a hint that the player is out with a head injury. Instead, head injuries were virtually non-existant. That's why the only conclusion is that there *is* in fact a considerably, ridiculously more concussions now than 20-30 years ago. I don't know why this is even being debated.

The real question is why...

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OK, but as I mentioned to Canoli, this only addresses awareness and diagnosis aspects. But how do we explain a mere fact that more players miss time with head injuries today?

Let's say there is a Flyers-Bruins game in 1973 and John McKenzie is going off the ice and doesn't come back. Then he misses 5-10 games with something weird. But whatever the docs or media or whoever else calls it, there would still be at least a hint that the player is out with a head injury. Instead, head injuries were virtually non-existant. That's why the only conclusion is that there *is* in fact a considerably, ridiculously more concussions now than 20-30 years ago. I don't know why this is even being debated.

The real question is why...

I agree that there are more actual concussions today. Like I said to aziz, I think it's mainly because of the greater size and speed of the players, and the better protection which tends to make players feel less vulnerable. So you get a more reckless style of play. But getting back to your example of a game back in 1973, the point is that when players "got their bell rung" back then, they didn't miss 5-10 games. In many cases they maybe missed a few shifts and went back in the game. There were none of these baseline tests then, teams didn't have such large medical staffs, people in the sport probably didn't even consider that an injury. You were just a little fuzzy but you still could play. Steve Young played in the '90s, he is known to have had 7 concussions, but they think he probably had more. Aikman had a bunch of concussions too, but if you look at those guys' careers, they didn't miss a whole lot of games.

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@

Sure. But here is what's unclear to me. Do the players today miss time MAINLY because they fail that baseline test and/or being symptom-free for whatever number of days they are required to be symptom-free, or..... they miss time because they are just not in a position to play? If it's the later, then clearly concussions today are more severe and intense. And that's what I am wrestling with...

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@

Sure. But here is what's unclear to me. Do the players today miss time MAINLY because they fail that baseline test and/or being symptom-free for whatever number of days they are required to be symptom-free, or..... they miss time because they are just not in a position to play? If it's the later, then clearly concussions today are more severe and intense. And that's what I am wrestling with...

Gotcha. I guess none of us are in a position to answer that with any certainty, but I'm sure that the former (the requirement to pass the tests) is a factor.

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Go back to soft elbow and shoulder pads. There may be a few more injuries in those areas, but a lot less concussions. I can't for the life of me figure out why they haven't banned those armor-plated things.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the glass. The rinks used to all have the plexiglass and the boards would gived a little when the players hit them. Now they use the tempered glass and the boards don't budge on a hit.

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I'm surprised no one has mentioned the glass. The rinks used to all have the plexiglass and the boards would gived a little when the players hit them. Now they use the tempered glass and the boards don't budge on a hit.

A very good observation. But what about open ice hits that lead to head injuries? But in terms of hits along the bords, you are absolutely correct. I would think that *has* to contribute to concussions at least to some degree.

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