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Podein25

1972 Summit Series

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@flyercanuck Yes, Canada did have an ego problem. They thought they were the best. They made predictions that they would sweep the series in 4 games and that the Soviets would be an awe of them. Then came game 1 and that quickly removed all the confidence they had in that they were the best.

 

Tretiak played NHL clubs many times and faired pretty well in case you didn't know. You say great sportsmanship like it was within Tretiak's control what team he played for HAHAHA. The Soviet national team was made up of amatuers that were good enough they could play in the NHL. They didn't "pretend" to be amatuers they just maintained their amatuer status. I guess when you come from a country like the United States or Canada it's hard to admit you aren't Number 1 at everything, I should know I was raised in the U.S. and apparently we are the best at everything. I mean god forbid you admit a country as disgusting and vile as...dare I say it? COMMUNIST RUSSIA! Had a legitimate hockey powerhouse for a national team...

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Interesting debate going on... I'm old enough to remember the '72 series pretty well. I agree that if Canada had had Orr, Hull, etc... it probably would have been an easier win. Otoh, no doubt in my mind regarding how good the Soviets were. Tretiak was regarded by many (including many here in North America) as the best goalie in the world. And that was during the heyday of Parent, Dryden and Esposito. Kharlamov was considered by some to be the second best player in the world, after Orr. He was one of the most exciting players I've ever seen. It was kind of a shame that Clarke took him out like that, but hey, that's hockey. I always believed that Ferguson told him to do it, but I think Clarke says he did it on his own?

 

Anyway, I think hockey became a better sport as a result of East meeting West. Remember, Freddie Shero took a few pages from the Soviet playbook.

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@TretiakCCCP20  "..And you basically just proved my point with that video when I said they won on dirty play, cheap shots, and taking out enemy players with the intent to injure."

 

  Yeah, the clip showed 4 Russians getting SMOKED when going to play the puck. Newsflash, hockey is not skating around like dainty dancers doing a  pirouette. When somebody has possession of the puck, they are OPEN GAME. The Russians thought they were going to come in and have an easy game, well, they found out different. Notice, no penalties called on ANY of the hits shown in the video. That's cause they were legal.

 

  I'm not going to get into this back and forth with you. Thanks to my knowledge of history, I really admire the Russians. The stand in Stalingrad against the Germans was one of the most awe inspiring things I've ever witnessed. Those people showed AMAZING character as they defended their city block by block, inch by inch. I actually cried watching the footage of how heroic the Russian citizens/soldiers were, how the stoically refused to budge a single inch. Nothing but respect and admiration for those people. I might add, many modern day Russians are direct descendants of those brave warriors. Continue on with your rant if you wish.

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@flyercanuck Yes, Canada did have an ego problem. They thought they were the best. They made predictions that they would sweep the series in 4 games and that the Soviets would be an awe of them. Then came game 1 and that quickly removed all the confidence they had in that they were the best.

 

 They were the best...still are. Not being egotisical, just stating a fact. When another country beats us on a regular basis, puts more players in the NHL, has the best player in the world etc, then it'll change. The predictions they made may have been somewhat ignorant, considering they'd never seen the USSR play. But considering how well trained the Soviets were, in shape, how long they'd played together  , and that Canada threw a team together at the end of 3 months off of hockey and still won...ya, I'd say they were better.

 

 

Tretiak played NHL clubs many times and faired pretty well in case you didn't know.

 

 I watched Tretiak play when he was over here. (not just highlights) He was a very good goalie. I've said that. But I'm not going to count him as one of the top 2 goalies in the world when he played 99% of his career against inferior opponents.

 

 You say great sportsmanship like it was within Tretiak's control what team he played for HAHAHA. The Soviet national team was made up of amatuers that were good enough they could play in the NHL. They didn't "pretend" to be amatuers they just maintained their amatuer status.

 

 And when you earn your living playing hockey, you're not "amateur" are you? Just because they were communists doesn't mean they aren't professionals. And while the Soviets were training and playing hockey all summer long, a lot of those NHL "professionals" were working other jobs trying to make ends meet. I knew a couple of NHlers in the 80s who had to work summer jobs cause their NHL salaries barely made ends meet.

 

 I guess when you come from a country like the United States or Canada it's hard to admit you aren't Number 1 at everything, I should know I was raised in the U.S. and apparently we are the best at everything. I mean god forbid you admit a country as disgusting and vile as...dare I say it? COMMUNIST RUSSIA! Had a legitimate hockey powerhouse for a national team...

 

 Hence my LOL at your egotistical comment.

 

 

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@flyercanuck They weren't paid to play hockey it was just their job they were paid to be in the Soviet military. Its like saying you're paid to be in the Army, you aren't paid to be a Infantryman, an artilleryman, a gunner etc.

 

Oh and I love the typical Western view you have. Thinking I don't have a point that Canadians and Americans are full of themselves...Americans and Canadians aren't exactly known for having the smartest populace so doesn't surprise me.

 

I like how you change your mind about him always playing ruskie teams to only playing them 99% of the time. Face it, he was good. With him in net the Soviets held their own against the NHL best whenever they came over to North America to play...

 

And yes it is egotistical thinking to think you are better at everyone no matter what. You do realize the reason the NHL is so popular is because its been around for so long right? The Soviets didn't get serious about hockey until after WWII.

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Well when you come to Philly, things tend to slide. Especially when you had a team that was use to being the NHL's goon squad for so long...

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The reason Kharlamov was so good was because he played with Petrov and Mikhailov on the same line. I think Kharalomov's skill was definitely increased by that fact. Still, he is probably the greatest forward to never play in the NHL.

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1972 Summit series:

One thing to keep in mind, the Soviet players were all a part of the military. The life they lived was brutal and hockey 24/7 11 months a year BUT the alternative was to fail and get cut from the team and end up driving a tank in Afghanistan. (Okay Afghanistan was a few years into the USSR future but you get the point.)

The USSR had a solid mix of forwards with varying degrees of skill but an amazing amount of collective talent. The defense was thin and not rugged, the more physical Canadian club wore the defense down easily over the course of the eight games.

Nobody of any relevance was out for the USSR at least until Clarke delivered a good old fashioned two hander from Flin Flon. Missing Orr, Hull, J.C. Tremblay, Cheevers, Sanderson thinned the Canadian ranks, I brought this up before Tretiak and you did not comment on that, same as you did not comment on the fact that the NHLers were in 'working the beer gut off' shape. Quite simply the series should not and under no other circumstance would ever be close.

But it gave confidence to European hockey that they could play with the big boys. Soon European Soviet Block players such as Nedomansky and the Stastny brothers defected and put their stamp on the NHL, as a wings fan I can tell you our Russian red army line of the 1990s owed its genesis to the Summit series. Kozlov, Larionov, Federov, Konstantinov and Fetisov all owe a thank you to the Soviet team of two decades earlier.

NOW onto your comment that pissed off the Flyer fans in here about them being thugs and goons, of course they were, everyone was in the 1970s they did not invent it just perfected it. And nobody could win back to back championships and appear in four finals in seven years without talent, goonery was league wide, hell I sometimes wish it still was, nowadays you bump someone in the corner as the whistle blows and ten guys are face washing each other instead of two guys dropping the gloves and going to town like men. They took away the third man in, put on helmets and visors, tied down the jerseys and wimpified the game.

But back to goonery, my Wings of the seventies had guys like Polonich, Maloney, Watson and Hextall who were always in the top ten in penalty minutes but we sucked anyway. Really, really sucked, sucked hard, sucked bad and sucked a lot. The dead thing era began with the retirement of Gordie and the trade of finesse player Dionne to the Kings, we fought all of the time, and nobody remembers, and do you know why? BECAUSE WE SUCKED. Fighting was part of the Flyers game, intimidation as well, hell, I still don't think I would want to fight Dave Schultz even today, but Clarkie, Barber, Leach, Parent, and so many more could play the game,even their fighters could play, Saleski was a thirty goal scorer, Schultz scored 20, Kindrachuk, Bladen was a wicked point man, Shero was the best x and o coach of the time, to write them off as pure goons is to show a lack of knowledge of the game or a desire to fame and troll. Either way, these guys from Philly in here will call you on it every time, as well they should. I still miss that era of the game when a fight every night was the norm and if you went home and your team won but their was no opponent blood scrapped off the ice by the end of the night you went home slightly disappointed. This does not make me a rube or ignorant of the history of the game, hell the seventies were not even the fightingest decade of the sport, I just like the rough and tumble stuff and feel that to insult the era is to show YOUR seeds.

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@flyercanuck They weren't paid to play hockey it was just their job they were paid to be in the Soviet military. Its like saying you're paid to be in the Army, you aren't paid to be a Infantryman, an artilleryman, a gunner etc.

 

 They weren't paid to play hockey, it was just their job??? Umm...ok. The Sutters all grew up on a farm. But they were professional hockey players, not amateurs who were farmers.

 

Oh and I love the typical Western view you have. Thinking I don't have a point that Canadians and Americans are full of themselves...Americans and Canadians aren't exactly known for having the smartest populace so doesn't surprise me.

 

 http://travel.ca.msn.com/top-10-smartest-countries-in-the-world

 

I like how you change your mind about him always playing ruskie teams to only playing them 99% of the time. Face it, he was good. With him in net the Soviets held their own against the NHL best whenever they came over to North America to play...

 

I changed my mind? I said he didn't play in the best league so it was hard to judge his talent level. I also said he was very good, but couldn't call him a top 2 goalie because he rarely played the best. I think that's a pretty fair assessment of a guy who played a handful of games against the worlds best.

 

And yes it is egotistical thinking to think you are better at everyone no matter what. You do realize the reason the NHL is so popular is because its been around for so long right? The Soviets didn't get serious about hockey until after WWII.

 

 I don't think I'm better than everyone no matter what. I do think Canada is the best at hockey. I don't see whats so egotistical about that The NHL is popular because it has the majority of the best players in the world.

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@flyercanuck  I think we are the best also. No ego involved, but somebody has to be the best, other countries will knock us off our perch, it's inevitable.  The USA closes the gap every year, but we are still the best. I expect the Swedes and Russians to ice some wicked teams in the coming Olympics. Ditto for the Chezh's and USA. Canada still makes up over 50% of the NHL players and I don't see any Olympic teams that have Canada's depth. Cept the goaltending....which is more of a cyclical thing than anything else. We hit a dry point with the goalies of late, but it's only a matter of time till we find a stud in goal.

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@TretiakCCCP20  Was always a horrible skater, played some rec hockey with buddies, nothing organized. When my knee went years ago it prevented me from ever getting better.

 

 Let me guess where this is going, because I was not playing organized hockey I'm not fit to judge talent, or something along those lines? LOL!

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Let me guess where this is going, because I was not playing organized hockey I'm not fit to judge talent, or something along those lines? LOL!

 

Yeah, THAT's why you're not fit to judge talent.  Go with that one.

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Rating Tretiak is the same as trying to definitively rate players from the N3gro Leagues and place them in absolute order next to their white contemporaries. We can tell who was great in best-on-best tournaments and who was good in their own league, but distilling that down to a single set of standings and saying "He's the X best ever!" is another thing altogether.

 

JR

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@TretiakCCCP20

 

  I play. Ice hockey starts up next week. Play ball hockey all year.

 

 

Oh, so that's the euphemism in Ontario?  "Ball hockey?"

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@ruxpin

 

Damn, the words out. (Says the ass pirate)

 

Can I say that on here?

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@ruxpin

 

Damn, the words out. (Says the ass pirate)

 

Can I say that on here?

 

LOL  Apparently.

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      Post
      I'm old enough to remember the series (barely). The one thing that's always bothered me is the way Clarke gets badmouthed now about his slash...OK, axe-swing, on Karmalov. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOMJsJhHlyM I don't recall a single person back in the cold war days saying anything bad about it. On the contrary, most people thought it was great. Threat of nuclear holocaust will have that effect. Now, all the "politically correct" douchebags say things like "he should be locked up for that". Ahhh shut up! Of course no mention is made of how Karlamov was penalized almost as much as Clarke in the series. And with those cheating commie refs, that's saying a lot.
    • 1
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      @TretiakCCCP20  This aint Russia buddy. You want to come into a new forum full of Flyer fans and make inflamatory remarks like "the Flyers were a bunch of criminals"....you get what you give around here. Show no respect you get it right back, sickle and hammer style...Tretiak choked in the big games, making him a LOSER!!
    • 1
      Post
      The reason Kharlamov was so good was because he played with Petrov and Mikhailov on the same line. I think Kharalomov's skill was definitely increased by that fact. Still, he is probably the greatest forward to never play in the NHL.
    • 1
      Post
      1972 Summit series: One thing to keep in mind, the Soviet players were all a part of the military. The life they lived was brutal and hockey 24/7 11 months a year BUT the alternative was to fail and get cut from the team and end up driving a tank in Afghanistan. (Okay Afghanistan was a few years into the USSR future but you get the point.) The USSR had a solid mix of forwards with varying degrees of skill but an amazing amount of collective talent. The defense was thin and not rugged, the more physical Canadian club wore the defense down easily over the course of the eight games. Nobody of any relevance was out for the USSR at least until Clarke delivered a good old fashioned two hander from Flin Flon. Missing Orr, Hull, J.C. Tremblay, Cheevers, Sanderson thinned the Canadian ranks, I brought this up before Tretiak and you did not comment on that, same as you did not comment on the fact that the NHLers were in 'working the beer gut off' shape. Quite simply the series should not and under no other circumstance would ever be close. But it gave confidence to European hockey that they could play with the big boys. Soon European Soviet Block players such as Nedomansky and the Stastny brothers defected and put their stamp on the NHL, as a wings fan I can tell you our Russian red army line of the 1990s owed its genesis to the Summit series. Kozlov, Larionov, Federov, Konstantinov and Fetisov all owe a thank you to the Soviet team of two decades earlier. NOW onto your comment that pissed off the Flyer fans in here about them being thugs and goons, of course they were, everyone was in the 1970s they did not invent it just perfected it. And nobody could win back to back championships and appear in four finals in seven years without talent, goonery was league wide, hell I sometimes wish it still was, nowadays you bump someone in the corner as the whistle blows and ten guys are face washing each other instead of two guys dropping the gloves and going to town like men. They took away the third man in, put on helmets and visors, tied down the jerseys and wimpified the game. But back to goonery, my Wings of the seventies had guys like Polonich, Maloney, Watson and Hextall who were always in the top ten in penalty minutes but we sucked anyway. Really, really sucked, sucked hard, sucked bad and sucked a lot. The dead thing era began with the retirement of Gordie and the trade of finesse player Dionne to the Kings, we fought all of the time, and nobody remembers, and do you know why? BECAUSE WE SUCKED. Fighting was part of the Flyers game, intimidation as well, hell, I still don't think I would want to fight Dave Schultz even today, but Clarkie, Barber, Leach, Parent, and so many more could play the game,even their fighters could play, Saleski was a thirty goal scorer, Schultz scored 20, Kindrachuk, Bladen was a wicked point man, Shero was the best x and o coach of the time, to write them off as pure goons is to show a lack of knowledge of the game or a desire to fame and troll. Either way, these guys from Philly in here will call you on it every time, as well they should. I still miss that era of the game when a fight every night was the norm and if you went home and your team won but their was no opponent blood scrapped off the ice by the end of the night you went home slightly disappointed. This does not make me a rube or ignorant of the history of the game, hell the seventies were not even the fightingest decade of the sport, I just like the rough and tumble stuff and feel that to insult the era is to show YOUR seeds.
    • 1
      Post
      @flyercanuck  I think we are the best also. No ego involved, but somebody has to be the best, other countries will knock us off our perch, it's inevitable.  The USA closes the gap every year, but we are still the best. I expect the Swedes and Russians to ice some wicked teams in the coming Olympics. Ditto for the Chezh's and USA. Canada still makes up over 50% of the NHL players and I don't see any Olympic teams that have Canada's depth. Cept the goaltending....which is more of a cyclical thing than anything else. We hit a dry point with the goalies of late, but it's only a matter of time till we find a stud in goal.
    • 1
      Post
      @ruxpin   Ha ha....smartass!!!

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