City of Edmonton elects to walk away from Arena

[habsguy26]

What a shame. Looks like a great hockey city will be leaving the NHL soon.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=407598

[jammer2]

Katz can't just pull up and leave out of a viable market. The NHL want's to strengthen their league, leaving an excellent market does not make sense for the league. The Board of Governers won't let him move the team. If he want's out that bad he could sell them and buy an expansion team. I don't see the BOG letting this go down. This is all posturing anyways, as far as I see it. Katz is just trying to see how much taxpayer money he can steal. It's a million dollar game of cat and mouse. Katz does make one good point, the land around the new arena will see a boatload of new builidings and retail....the City of Edmonton will then increase their tax base and money will flow....BUT I still don't think they should cave in to his demands.

[idahophilly]

If they are smart they will cave. It would hurt the city in the long run...

[flyercanuck]

He can't move the Oilers. If he put them for sale there'd likely be a lineup of buyers. How many Albertans could afford an NHL franchise? There's welders in Fort Mac working all the OT they want that could afford them.

[Puck]

@jammer2 - the tax base around the new arena may increase with new development and economic activity, but it'll be offset by depreciated real estate and sales in other locations. The population isn't increasing. So say there's a bar by the new rink. People start drinking there instead of wherever they did before. The old location(s) become vacant or less busy and assessments/tax revenue decrease. Katz knows better. He's just trying to squeeze every last concession out of the City. The damage he's done to his personal reputation is irreparable. The fans might forgive him IF the team wins a cup.

[hf101]

@Puck

Welcome to Hockey Forums

As I mentioned earlier in the shoutbox. Katz and the new arena scenario reminds me too much of Norman Green and his desire to move the North Stars to Dallas. Those of us in Minnesota never thought he would carry out demands for a new arena or leave. Katz knows he owns a young and talented group of players, and wants to make the most money possible while he can.

[Puck]

@hf101

Thanks for the welcome.

I think the NHL is a different beast than it was in 1993, almost 20 years ago. That year was also Bettman's first as commissioner. While I concede anything is possible, I don't see Bettman or the BOG rubber stamping an Oilers relocation plan. First, Bettman was personally involved in the negotiations between the Oilers and Edmonton for the new arena. He doesn't have the time to deal with this right now. That will change soon. Secondly, there's no viable market with an NHL-ready arena. Third, the Oilers lease doesn't expire until 2015, giving the city and Katz 3 years to mend their differences. Along the same line of thinking, the next civic election in Edmonton is exactly a year away (Oct 21, 2013) and the politics surrounding the arena deal could easily decide the fate of the next mayor and council.

Plus, to my knowledge, Katz doesn't have a sexual harassment suit pending against him. (For those that don't know, Norm Green's wife demanded he move the team because a local Minnesotan woman launched a sexual harassment suit against him.)

[radoran]

I don't see the NHL going without a team in Edmonton. Katz may very well take his ball a la Art Modell and run off to whatever version of Baltimore he wants to go to, but the "Oilers" and the franchise's history will stay in Edmonton.

[jammer2]

Wow, this Katz mess is really crazy. This from the latest article on TSN...I had no idea this was part of the deal...UNREAL!! This guy is a greedy as they get!! WOW!!

"Katz, he said, also insisted that city staffers move into a new office building he was building beside the rink to become its anchor tenant -- a move that would violate city tendering policy.

Mandel said the Katz team wouldn't budge on that point or the $6 million.

"If someone says, 'You must rent office space from us or we we're not going to do an arena,' (well) we don't do that. We can't," said Mandel. "It's (against) our policy.

"And I think morally you can't just say, 'We're going to rent space from you and not offer it to everybody else.' "

Mandel said negotiations were stopped because they had become pointless."

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=407644

[radoran]

sound familiar?

"Right now it's we move, we move, we move, we move -- and nothing on the other side moves," he said. "It's not fair negotiations.

"We can't be the only ones negotiating."

It's ridiculous that the NHL is allowing this jackhole to screw with the people of Edmonton in the midst of a lockout.

[hf101]

@Puck

Plus, to my knowledge, Katz doesn't have a sexual harassment suit pending against him. (For those that don't know, Norm Green's wife demanded he move the team because a local Minnesotan woman launched a sexual harassment suit against him.)

But Green had intentions and plans in place to move the team to Dallas before the harassment case was launched. I also think Green's wife demands was just one of the excuses given to the media. For one, why would his wife have a confidence that the type of behavior Green was being accused of suddenly change with moving the team to Texas?

To make matters worse, last month Green was hit with a sexual harassment suit filed by Kari Dziedzic, his former executive assistant. She alleges that he often kissed female employees, including her, and required kisses in return, that he shook a female employee's shoulder to see if she was wearing a bra and that he wanted to hire a receptionist with "the right look," which he explained was blonde hair, large breasts and a pretty face. The suit followed stories in local newspapers about Green's behavior, including an allegation by a former North Star announcer, Dave Hodge, that all Green ever wanted on broadcasts were constant sales pitches for tickets and a barrage of good news, no matter what was taking place on the ice. A former female employee said she had been fired because Green told her she lacked "the right chemistry."

"He said, 'Before you were married, when you would meet men, sometimes there would be a chemistry,' " Patty Reid, formerly the North Stars' community-relations director, told the Minneapolis Star Tribune. " 'You'd think, That's the kind of guy I'd like to date. That's what I mean by chemistry. You're not the kind of person I'd want to date.' "

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1138154/2/index.htm

Second, many felt Green had intentions to move the team back when he first bought the team. Green had full ownership of the North Stars in 1990.....after the North Stars made it to the Finals in 1991, Green changed the name on the Jersey from North Stars to "Stars" . What kind of team name is that?......one that can be moved to most any location. It is also known that Green considered moving the team to Anaheim.........another place known for it's "Stars".

[ruxpin]

Why do they even have a team in Edmonton? I mean the city is a podunk little town of 750K people who no one would know even existed if it wasn't for the failure of the WHA. Move it somewhere more easily accessible and with a bigger fan base and be done with it. Like maybe Houston, Texas.

Nothing says hockey like a team in Houston. And they could keep the name "Oilers."

[Vanflyer]

Why do they even have a team in Edmonton? I mean the city is a podunk little town of 750K people who no one would know even existed if it wasn't for the failure of the WHA Wayne Gretzky, Mark Messier, Jari Kurri, Paul Coffey and perhaps that coke head Fuhr. Move it somewhere more easily accessible and with a bigger fan base and be done with it. Like maybe Houston, Texas.

Nothing says hockey like a team in Houston. And they could keep the name "Oilers."

I fixed the first part for you.

Interesting about Whooostunnn- they rank 12th in attendance in the AHL and double the attendance of the Phantoms. Another side note (mostly for those posters on TSN.ca that say hockey belongs in Canada and not the USA), the second best pro-league of ice hockey in North America (AHL) sports only 3 Canadian teams (out of 30).

Edited November 24, 2012 by Vanflyer

[ruxpin]

Hiya @Vanflyer

I thought about Gretsky, et al., when I wrote my post. At the last second i changed to "failure of the WHA." This may end up hijacking the thread, but I wonder had the limping WHA kept going and the OIlers (and the other three refugee teams) hadn't come to the NHL whether anyone south of the arctic circle would have noticed. I also wonder if the Oilers as we came to know them in the 80s could have financially kept that group together if the WHA hadn't failed.

I'm not going so far as to 'assert" that it's the case, but I "wonder." What do you think?

[flyercanuck]

@ruxpin

As far as economics go, the area around Edmonton has been booming for decades. They have so much oil around there they have no idea what the term "recession" means. There may not be a huge population there, but money they have in bales.

[Polaris922]

New arenas DO create an economic rise in cities. Regardless of the ideas of land depreciation or businesses near the old arena failing, Consol Energy Center helped revitalize a run down portion of Pittsburgh that was in rapid decline despite Mellon Arena being there. Consol moved in and you see more thriving bars and restaurants there, more activity overall, not just for game nights, and the crime rate in that particular section has dropped.

[ruxpin]

@ruxpin

As far as economics go, the area around Edmonton has been booming for decades. They have so much oil around there they have no idea what the term "recession" means. There may not be a huge population there, but money they have in bales.

I'm not serious about Edmonton not deserving a team. You know I'm just being provocative, right? (I still don't think most Americans would ever have heard of Edmonton without Gretzky, et al. though. Then again, probably 70% of Americans can't find their own damn city on a map, so take it with a grain)

[Vanflyer]

Then again, probably 70% of Americans can't find their own damn city on a map, so take it with a grain)

Where I live, most of the indigenous population do not know north from south or left from right (when giving directions).

[flyercanuck]

@ruxpin

I kind of thought you may not know the situation there. It is the richest part of Canada without a doubt. Toronto may be the financial headquarters, but they've got money coming out of there arses from Edmonton north.

[ruxpin]

@ruxpin

I kind of thought you may not know the situation there. It is the richest part of Canada without a doubt. Toronto may be the financial headquarters, but they've got money coming out of there arses from Edmonton north.

I actually don't know all that much so I appreciated your post. I just really wasn't really serious about Edmonton and wasn't up to playing my own game.

[ruxpin]

By the way, all this talk of a new arena: My bet is that no matter how much effort they put into it, for whatever reason the new ice won't be as good.

[radoran]

By the way, all this talk of a new arena: My bet is that no matter how much effort they put into it, for whatever reason the new ice won't be as good.

The guy with the recipie died,

What? Too soon?