NHL's Bettman 'disappointed' in union proposal; no new talks scheduled

[NHL Fanstill]

Fehr is not qualified to handle this. Neither is Crosby who's carreer is questionable at best with his concussion issues. We the fans are now officially screwed. Bettman's offer was better than I expected and he is not going to bend. Fehr is going to ruin our sport if he is not removed. He can't even get the numbers correct. He is worse than Bettman if you can imagine that? Bettman needs to go too, but lets save that for another day. Right now Fehr needs to fix this mess or step down.

[hf101]

@NHL Fanstill

(I moved your post which was in News Feeds to the article below) Most members will not see a response in the news feeds so I started you a new topic with reference. Generally most will copy / paste an article or blog in a forum as a new topic just make sure when you do so please add the source reference.

TORONTO — NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman received three counterproposals from the players’ association on Thursday and left the negotiating table “thoroughly disappointed.”

No new talks have been scheduled, and the possibility of a full hockey regular season is quickly shrinking.

“This is not a good day,” union executive director Donald Fehr said. “It should have been.”

The union offered multiple options in response to the NHL’s offer on Tuesday that called for an 82-game season and a 50-50 split of hockey-related revenues between owners and players.

Bettman said that proposal was the “best that we could do” and added that the two sides are still far apart.

“None of the three variations of player share that they gave us even began to approach 50-50, either at all or for some long period of time,” Bettman said. “It’s clear we’re not speaking the same language.”

Bettman said he was still hopeful the league can have a full season, but time is running out to make that happen.

“I am concerned based on the proposal that was made today that things are not progressing,” he said. “To the contrary, I view the proposal made by the players’ association in many ways a step backward.”

Bettman said Tuesday that the sides would have to reach an agreement by Oct. 25 for a full season to be played.

NHL players showed up in force Thursday as the union prepared to respond to the league’s proposal.

Among the 18 players at the talks were Sidney Crosby, Jarome Iginla, Jonathan Toews and Eric Staal. Danny Cleary was there representing the Red Wings.

Fehr said two of the union’s proposals would have the players take a fixed amount of revenue, which would turn into an approximate 50-50 split over the term of the deal, provided league revenues continued to grow.

The third approach would be a 50-50 split, as long as the league honored all existing contracts at full value.

“We came in here today with those proposals thinking that we could really make some progress,” Crosby said. “To hear those words (from Bettman) kind of shuts it down pretty quickly. In a nutshell it doesn’t look good.”

The lockout — the third of the Bettman era — began Sept. 16, and the league canceled regular-season games through Oct. 24. Bettman, in announcing the new proposal, called it “a fair offer for a long-term deal” and “one that we hope gets a positive reaction.”

But the clock is ticking. There is only one week to strike a deal for the season to start by Nov. 2, three weeks behind schedule. If those deadlines are met, teams would be able to hold makeshift training camps for one week, and then play one extra game every five weeks to make up for the lost time and complete a full slate.

http://www.freep.com.../121018063/1053

[hf101]

@NHL Fanstill

I think Fehr is doing his job. Fehr has the players unified and informed. Fehr has assured the players that they will not lose again to Bettman and the NHL.

The NHL chose to lockout the players and the players have shown they have options and and are prepared to sit out an entire season. If the owners want the players to return they are going to have to drop some of their demands, reach an agreement that is truely 50-50 and adhere to the existing contracts they made with the players. This time around the Owners have more to lose than the Players.

[canoli]

I *guess* the owners have more to lose than the players - from a strict hockey POV. But from the financial angle I doubt it. I don't know the numbers but I'll bet most owners are successful in other enterprises and their teams are a lot about vanity and "owning a hockey team" - or more likely, "owning a sports franchise."

Whatever the case, if the new deal allows owners to rescind current contracts or modify them in any way - well the players lose, that's all. And I doubt Mr. Fehr will ever agree to let that happen. As much as I'd like to see some NHL games I don't think it's in anyone's interest to let the owners have a "do-over" on the absurd contracts they signed - some just days before the lockout went into effect.

[Puck]

I'm not sure I agree that the owners have more to lose. In terms of the popularity of the sport and fan support, both sides will lose if there's a prolonged lockout. A guy like Ed Snider has owned the Flyers since their inception - a run of 45 years. His "hockey career" is going to run until the day he dies. Players, on the other hand, have finite careers. Losing an entire years salary (100%) to save 12.3% seems foolish to me. I understand they don't want to be pushed around and I understand there's lingering bad blood over having the last CBA crammed down their throats, and as much as I'd love to see them break Bettman, I don't see it happening. The NHL has moved toward the player's demands. The players haven't moved at all.

As for Fehr, I agree with hf101. Fehr has the players united and informed. I think the PA needs to give a little more, but remember, this is a negotiation. Fehr's biggest job right now is keeping the players united. There's no gag order on the players and I think if this dispute goes beyond next week (and thereby killing the Nov 2 start date for an 82 game schedule), there may be players openly questioning his leadership in the media.

I think the best thing would be for both sides to shut up. No more talking to the media (I'm looking at you, Bettman, Daly & both Fehrs). Both sides are playing the PR game and frankly, it's a load of bull excrement. There's a deal to be had here that both sides can live with, but showmanship and ego is getting in the way.

[jammer2]

@Puck The way I see it, the owners are independantly rich and will always be well off. Even without the NHL, they will be set financially for the rest of thier lives. They can afford to wait this out. The end result of one or even 2 season being lost is the players will have to bend over and take what is shoved down their throats...as more time passes, the owners can be more and more demanding, even moving off of previous numbers, smelling blood in the water.

[Puck]

Exactly @jammer2. If the lockout lasts that long, the players will be getting 50% of revenue from a business with a PR problem and an indifferent fan base. They'll lose far more in the long run than they will in the short term. If I were them I'd take the 50/50 split and expanded revenue sharing, extend the deal by a few years and tell Bettman where to shove his contract restrictions. If the game continues to grow at it's current rate, they'll be back at current revenue sharing levels (dollar-wise) within two years.

[flyerrod]

A poll was taken at one sports site and 69 % of the people that responded say the owners proposal was fair enough and the NHLPA are the ones that are wrong on this. Only 7 percent backed Fehr. The other 23 percent or so were on the fence. What about us fans? Don't we count in this? Do you have any idea the damage being done here to a fanbase that is already dependant strictly on the Northeast US, Canada and California pretty much. Ok, I have to include the Chicago and Miinnesota area too. But the South and the midwest are not strong hockey strongholds. We need to gain fans, not lose them. We will not lose the die hards. We risk losing the casual fan, but they are important. Sidney Crosby is not going to be a lawyer if he can't play hockey any more. You need only hear him spit out a couple of sentences to realize this. Fix this mess and fix it now. Accept the damn proposal and iron out the other problems in the off season. You are going to risk losing too many fans. ESPN who I can't stand, bailed after the last lockeout. Who is going to bail this time? I canceled my Center Ice needless to say as there is no hockey. I may just get league pass to get me through the winter.

How about a link? The NHLPA can not lose to Bettman and his Draconian tactics for 3 contracts in a row. Hiring Fehr was the smartest thing the NHLPA has done. They got rid of the blow hards, bullies, and thieves that have run the PA in recent years and have a guy in there now that truly understands the process. This is Bettman's biggest fear come to life, A guy in charge that he can't intimidate into doing what he wants. The OWNERS LOCKED OUT THE PLAYERS over contracts they themselves signed so I am not sure how you find 69% of people that think Bettman and the Owners have made a reasonable offer. Are you Bill Daly by chance? This does seem like a poll that he would like to see.....

[canoli]

well you have to remember that 83% of all statistics are simply made-up and don't represent reality.

That's right. 83%.

Seriously though, I can see how 7 in 10 people at "a sports franchise" (unless it was a hockey rink) think the owners are the good guys now. After somebody proposes a 50-50 split they're always seen as the reasonable party. The thing is you have to look at the finer print...50% of what exactly? Then you have the new contract limitations the owners are trying to enact. To me it looks like they're attempting to weasel out of their own stupidity.

I have no sympathy for either side at this point but not because neither one gives a damn about the fans. I don't expect them to. What bothers me is what's been said a hundred times all over the web - this is billionaires arguing with millionaires about how to split up billions of dollars. Fk em all.

[jammer2]

@canoli all good points can....and we have to remember, the NHLPA was willing to play out the year and negeoiate as the season progressed, it was the owners who locked the doors and took away our sport. The owners used the game as leverage, with a cavalier "the end justifies the means" attitude we have all grown to hate.