Howie58 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Greetings:I am going to stick my neck out and say that if we don't get a settlement by the end of the month, the season will go down the tubes. I do not see the Winter Classic as a must have. And I think the beginning of the holiday season will be a lousy time to start a season. The league's last offer is a nuts-and-bolts approach that addresses many concerns about the small/nontraditional teams (what Fehr said was important a few weeks back) and does not call for an immediate salary rollback. In fact, I believe that if revenues grow at least five percent (their recent average) there would be no give-back.Bottom line: As much as we hate Bettmann, Fehr is worse--a kind old-style class warrior. And unlike the baseball owners, I don't think this league will roll over. Baseball had revenue room for error. The NHL doesn't. I think we are on the brink of our second lost season is seven years. It would be tragic but unfortunately, it may be needed to rationalize the game's economics. I am not into union busting, but in this case, I think Fehr's approach is outlandish and warrants "retaliation."We got a signal of what this was going to be like when Fehr pulled the plug on the realignment. The plan was sane: Fehr wanted to assert his "rights." Well I think the league is going to screw his rights (and the players') to the sticking place. Peace,Howie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 @Howie58 Traditionally, in the work place, I'm about as non-union as it gets. Even given this background, I'm squarely in the corner of the players. This is the owners mess...they created it, they should fix it. The players have given enough in 04. As more time goes by, the more I see Fehr as a hero. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howie58 Posted October 21, 2012 Author Share Posted October 21, 2012 Dear Jammer:I am not a management hawk so I will, as you would expect, respectfully disagree. I think a 50/50 split is fair. And the proposed changes in contact length and the effective ending of front-loaded contracts addresses the "mess" that was made. Revenue sharing seems to be a serious undertaking with this model by including the sick teams that are in large markets (Anaheim, Jersey) and the insistence that revenue sharing must also be accompanied by what the league called "best practice." I think Fehr is trying to introduce a baseball model (soft cap and or luxury tax) and I don't think that will work for the league. Best,Howie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 @Howie58I'm moving this thread to the CBA related forum as the topic is not only Flyers related. I'll leave a link, please add the CBA Related Forum to the list of content you regularly visit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 @Howie58 50/50 sounds fair, but the league is redefining HRR, so what was once 50/50 is now heavily in the owners favour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howie58 Posted October 21, 2012 Author Share Posted October 21, 2012 @Howie58I'm moving this thread to the CBA related forum as the topic is not only Flyers related. I'll leave a link, please add the CBA Related Forum to the list of content you regularly visit.HF:Thanks! Take care.Howie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerrod Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 @Howie58 50/50 sounds fair, but the league is redefining HRR, so what was once 50/50 is now heavily in the owners favour.@Howie58Top that off with the rest of the "pork"(benefits for owners) on the CBA offer. and it is no different than the starting offer the Owners put out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 @Howie58I think we have more time to get a partial season in and the Winter Classic if the two sides don't come to an agreement by the end of the month. I've read that Nov. 20th is the last date the Red Wings feel they need to have a new CBA by in order to get all of the festivities in for the Winter Classic. This also coincides with comment made by a friend who stated that the Club Box owners for the Flyers were told to not expect any hockey until mid November. Fehr and the players are going to hold to their demands that they want the current contracts to be payed as originally signed. the League is going to have to give in this time around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puck Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Read an article this morning that indicates there's reason for optimism because both sides are talking "50/50"... it's just a matter now of working out the finer details. I hope the author is right."Bettman proposed a plan with a 50/50 split of revenue Tuesday. Two days later, the union responded with three proposals, each calling for the same revenue division between owners and players.Owners want the revenue divided evenly right away. Players are content with a gradual shift away from the 57 percent they received on the last collective bargaining agreement.That difference does not alter the reality that over the past week the NHL and NHLPA laid out proposals calling for a 50/50 split — even though Bettman said many owners wanted a more favorable percentage, and Penguins defenseman Brooks Orpik said he was surprised players agreed to the ratio.Following from afar, labor experts agree there is finally a deal to be made."http://triblive.com/...s-owners-seasonI read somewhere else that Bettman has used his "I'm very disappointed" rhetoric in each of the last three lockouts. Doesn't surprise me one bit. For a brilliant businessman/lawyer, he's sure got a penchant for being a drama queen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyFan Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Read an article this morning that indicates there's reason for optimism because both sides are talking "50/50"... it's just a matter now of working out the finer details. I hope the author is right.There is quite a bit of finer details to be worked out. As alluded to above, what is and is not hockey related revenue is one of those finer details. To me, it would seem anything related to the presentation of the game that makes money (i.e. revenue -- after overhead and expenses) are what the players want an equal piece of. Parking revenue derived from people driving to attend a game? Concession sales? Approved logo merchandise sold at the arena/team owned locations? From what I have seen/heard/read this is a major sticking point, with each owner wanting to count these numbers in a different way.Another fine point: Contract length. Forget the 5-year contract clause. Given the track-record, contracts should not exceed the term of the CBA. Obviously players don't like any limits.I would feel much better about a deal being made if they were actually working towards a deal, and not grandstanding. The owners claim this is their last best and final offer; but hope to resume negotiations. The PA brings in three contracts, which apparently can be read and dismissed in 12-15 minutes. While I am sure they are taking a closer look at things behind the scenes, it is not helping their PR war on either side... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puck Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 That's true, there's a lot of small details to hammer out but the big one was the revenue split and it looks like they are almost on the same page there. Basically all that needs to be done is to figure out a limit on escrow or guarantee a percentage of existing contracts. As for HRR, it depends on whose word you take on what the NHL means by "clarifying HRR definitions"... some have said this means the league wants to redefine it, others say they're simply looking for mutual understanding on some gray areas. Bettman and Daly have both gone on record saying that the HRR in the proposal is the same as it was before.I'm all for limiting contract lengths to about 7 years. I think 5 years is a little unreasonable but I'm assuming the league came up with that number with the intention of negotiating a different number. Some other fine details that need to be ironed out: revenue sharing, Olympic participation, realignment, and so on. I think they have a framework in place for drug testing, benefits, arbitration and suppemental discipline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindbergh31 Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Greetings:I am going to stick my neck out and say that if we don't get a settlement by the end of the month, the season will go down the tubes. I do not see the Winter Classic as a must have. And I think the beginning of the holiday season will be a lousy time to start a season.The league's last offer is a nuts-and-bolts approach that addresses many concerns about the small/nontraditional teams (what Fehr said was important a few weeks back) and does not call for an immediate salary rollback. In fact, I believe that if revenues grow at least five percent (their recent average) there would be no give-back.Bottom line: As much as we hate Bettmann, Fehr is worse--a kind old-style class warrior. And unlike the baseball owners, I don't think this league will roll over. Baseball had revenue room for error. The NHL doesn't. I think we are on the brink of our second lost season is seven years. It would be tragic but unfortunately, it may be needed to rationalize the game's economics. I am not into union busting, but in this case, I think Fehr's approach is outlandish and warrants "retaliation."We got a signal of what this was going to be like when Fehr pulled the plug on the realignment. The plan was sane: Fehr wanted to assert his "rights." Well I think the league is going to screw his rights (and the players') to the sticking place.Peace,HowieHey Howie,I'm not on either side because I feel both sides are being greedy. The players don't want to go down to a 50/50 split because they won't get paid as much. The top end players will always get the big contracts, it's the guys who are getting $3 to $4 million now that will feel the hit. As for the 50/50 split, that's the way it should be, the owners are the ones that put up the capital so the players have a place to play so why should they get less than 50% of the revenue pie. As for the owners, they want a full proof cba to protect themselves from themselves. They have to honour the contracts that were signed quickly before the cba expired. There is one part of the owners' proposal that I liked as a Flyer fan, a limited on the number of years for a contract. This way Holmgren won't be giving out these long-term contracts. Now the owners are waiting for the players to come up with the next proposal. I just find it strange that the players have a guy who is heading their union who is only signed after the 2013 season, so he doesn't give a **** if they sit out a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howie58 Posted October 24, 2012 Author Share Posted October 24, 2012 Howdy:I am not a big fan of either; but it seems that the owners have come off the perch. But if either side respected the fans, the game, or arena staff, this would have been at mediation a long time ago. I wonder if I'd get Center Ice if the season started tomorrow.Peace,Howie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyingswede Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 The sad thing about the lockout is that whatever happens the owners are the winners. The lockout is a lost for the players and the fans and the sport. Why? NHL is a business and the owners doesnt fall with NHL. I wish all sport teams were owned by the cities or cooperative player owned. That would keep sallarys down, tickets down so people actually could afford to see the games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.