Any guesses where Phoenix Coyotes franchise ends up?

[Cheesesteak]

NHL owns them and I've heard they are most likely not keeping the team in AZ...Any insight on where the NHL may place them? Another team for Canada? Probably at least be in a cold weather city, seems like the southern teams don't do as well and are a big reason there is a damn salary cap, so the smaller markets can compete, but that's a different topic.

The _________ Coyotes?

[Irishjim]

NHL owns them and I've heard they are most likely not keeping the team in AZ...Any insight on where the NHL may place them? Another team for Canada? Probably at least be in a cold weather city, seems like the southern teams don't do as well and are a big reason there is a damn salary cap, so the smaller markets can compete, but that's a different topic.

The _________ Coyotes?

60% says' kansas city there's a new arena with no tenant, 40% Quebec where they have a crappy arena with no tenant,

[irishflyer1918]

I think it would be sweet to see them in Milwaukee. rich hockey city with no pro team. much better than Phoenix.

[Digityman]

Hartford.

[Leach27]

The quebec Coyotes

[canoli]

I don't know where they'll end up but I hope the Flyers don't take them lightly tonight. I watched the first half of their game vs the Leafs the other night and they look good. Mike Smith is holding down the fort and Doan looks like he's got himself back on track. We've been pretty mediocre at home so far - I hope we ready to work hard for a win tonight.

[xganarchy]

NHL owns them and I've heard they are most likely not keeping the team in AZ...Any insight on where the NHL may place them? Another team for Canada? Probably at least be in a cold weather city, seems like the southern teams don't do as well and are a big reason there is a damn salary cap, so the smaller markets can compete, but that's a different topic.

The _________ Coyotes?

I'm hoping to see a team back in Quebec, they had a good rivalry with the Canadiens and Canada deserves another team.

[radoran]

I'm not buying into the "Canada deserves another team" argument at this point. I think Winnipeg put a cap on that "deserving."

Seven of the top ten Canadian cities already have a team, with Winnipeg the only city under a million people (695K). Quebec has about 20K more.

The Buffalo metro has about 1.1M people and there have long been questions about whether Buffalo "can support" a team. I can tell you first hand there are fewer hockeymad cities in the US like Buffalo (Rick notwithstanding) and the team is an integral part of what makes the city identify itself. If Buffalo "can't support" the Sabres, shouldn't we wait to see if the Jets actually succeed in Winnipeg before deciding more small Canadian cities "deserve" NHL teams?

You can forget about Hamilton - Tronno will never allow it, much less Buffalo. After that, London has less than 500K people. That leaves Quebec.

Does Quebec "deserve" a team simply because it had one and lost it? If Quebec puts together a convincing argument that it will have a new arena and signifcant fan and sponsor support for a team - long term - then I have absolutely no problem with the Quebec Coyotes.

I'm just not down with the idea that they "deserve" it.

Besides, Quebec is a very nice city. I'd hate to see those ruffian Canadian fans burn it down if their team loses.

[Hexy27]

What about Seattle? I think it would be great to add a team to the northwest and you don't get into another cross conference re-alignment situation.

[radoran]

What about Seattle? I think it would be great to add a team to the northwest and you don't get into another cross conference re-alignment situation.

If there's support in Seattle, I think that'd be a great idea. Seattle's far enough from Vancouver.

[Flyguys03]

They are running out of places that can sustain an NHL team. Contraction would be best. Speaking of sustaining teams, I was flipping back and forth btw some games the other night. There were about 43 people at the Colorado game and about 200 at the Toronto game. I know TO is fine, but the attendance at NHL games seems to be hurting. Every Dallas home game I catch seems to be empty too.

[radoran]

They are running out of places that can sustain an NHL team. Contraction would be best. Speaking of sustaining teams, I was flipping back and forth btw some games the other night. There were about 43 people at the Colorado game and about 200 at the Toronto game. I know TO is fine, but the attendance at NHL games seems to be hurting. Every Dallas home game I catch seems to be empty too.

Article the other day said MLS has now eclipsed NHL in average fans per game:

http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/2011/11/mls-surpasses-nba-nhl-in-average-attendance/

A lot of this has to do with terrible teams in bad hockey markets, but it also referenced the idea that MLS put teams in areas that had a big interest in soccer. They went where the amrket was, they didn't expect a pro team to trickle down and develop interest.

I'm curious to see how Winnipeg reacts to having the Atlanta Thrashers over the next few years. If all you have is godawful hockey, how much do you really wanna go watch it?

[Hexy27]

Winnipeg seems to be doing pretty well attendance wise:

http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance/_/sort/homePct

They may have a smaller arena but they are definitely getting more fans to each game.

[Flyguys03]

Article the other day said MLS has now eclipsed NHL in average fans per game:

http://www.midwestsp...age-attendance/

A lot of this has to do with terrible teams in bad hockey markets, but it also referenced the idea that MLS put teams in areas that had a big interest in soccer. They went where the amrket was, they didn't expect a pro team to trickle down and develop interest.

I'm curious to see how Winnipeg reacts to having the Atlanta Thrashers over the next few years. If all you have is godawful hockey, how much do you really wanna go watch it?

That is ******* pathetic.

RE: The Peg. I was saying that during the summer. Lots of excitement there now, but wait until they realize their team sucks ass.

[Flyguys03]

Winnipeg seems to be doing pretty well attendance wise:

http://espn.go.com/n.../_/sort/homePct

They may have a smaller arena but they are definitely getting more fans to each game.

That chart backs up what I was saying about Dallas. It is embarrassing.

[radoran]

Winnipeg seems to be doing pretty well attendance wise:

http://espn.go.com/n.../_/sort/homePct

They may have a smaller arena but they are definitely getting more fans to each game.

Right, I'm saying in 2-3 years after the "newness" has worn off.

Look at the bottom ten in attendance - Anaheim and Carolina have won Cups since the lockout. New Jersey, Colorado and the Islanders have storied histories. Dallas "won" the Cup and trails Phoenix and Columbus as the WORST attendance in the entire league (% of house). Then you've got Nashville, Minnesota, Florida and Columbus - with Nashville and Minnesota filling 90+% of capacity.

So the question is: does Winnipeg still sell out after making the playoffs once in a decade and winning zero playoff games?

[Mad Dog]

Article the other day said MLS has now eclipsed NHL in average fans per game:

http://www.midwestsp...age-attendance/

A lot of this has to do with terrible teams in bad hockey markets, but it also referenced the idea that MLS put teams in areas that had a big interest in soccer. They went where the amrket was, they didn't expect a pro team to trickle down and develop interest.

I'm curious to see how Winnipeg reacts to having the Atlanta Thrashers over the next few years. If all you have is godawful hockey, how much do you really wanna go watch it?

Pitiful and sickening are the only words that come to mind to react to this. A sheer inability of this league to recognize and project where hockey will be watched is beyond inapt. But then, nothing really surprises me about Bettman and his aids anymore.

The only thing I wonder is whether it's just real, true cluelessness on their part or just intentional effort to inundate American markets with hockey knowing full well that it would be a total failure. I tend to lean towards the later, which makes it even more disgusting.

[Spinorama]

Hartford.

if Hartford ever gets a team back,they NEED to be called the Whalers. If anything other than "the whale" is in hartford, it is a crime

[radoran]

Pitiful and sickening are the only words that come to mind to react to this. A sheer inability of this league to recognize and project where hockey will be watched is beyond inapt. But then, nothing really surprises me about Bettman and his aids anymore.

The only thing I wonder is whether it's just real, true cluelessness on their part or just intentional effort to inundate American markets with hockey knowing full well that it would be a total failure. I tend to lean towards the later, which makes it even more disgusting.

I have no problem watching hockey as a national "niche" sport. That doesn't mean there can't be "hockey" in other places.

Tampa's drawing 19K and 96.3% capacity. LA sells out 99.9% this season.

Columbus was supposed to be a primed market with proven support for an AHL franchise. Being godawful since inception has killed that.

I think Colorado would be back with some success.

Phoenix, Miami and Carolina? Hmmm... Does St. John's, Newfoundland have an NHL franchise yet?

Edited November 17, 2011 by radoran

[Dynamo 47]

Well since assclown Bettman doesn't want to lose another franchise to the Great North, he will try hockey, in Vegas, or Kansas City. If he were not an assclown, he would relocate the franchise to Quebec where the rivalry of the ages with Le Habitants would be restored.

IF he insists on keeping the team in the states, I would suggest Seattle which has a long history of supporting minor league hockey and adds another west coast team and would become a natural rival with Vancouver.

[Hexy27]

So the question is: does Winnipeg still sell out after making the playoffs once in a decade and winning zero playoff games?

I think Winnipeg will work out in the long run. If I remember correctly the Jets originally left because of the small arena and the weak Canadian dollar. They had decent attendance it was just that their arena/market was too small. If you sort that list by average attendance all of a sudden Winnipeg falls to 23rd in the league (even with 100% attendance).

[Mad Dog]

I have no problem watching hockey as a national "niche" sport. That doesn't mean there can't be "hockey" in other places.

Tampa's drawing 19K and 96.3% capacity. LA sells out 99.9% this season.

Columbus was supposed to be a primed market with proven support for an AHL franchise. Being godawful since inception has killed that.

I think Colorado would be back with some success.

Phoenix, Miami and Carolina? Hmmm... Does St. John's, Newfoundland have an NHL franchise yet?

But that's just it. Since the mid-80's expansion, Tampa - and to a lesser degree Florida Panthers - was the only franchise who somehow managed to attract a decent fanbase. And honestly, I am not 100% sold on Tampa, even now. I was at Tampa on business about 4 years ago and went to a hockey game. Let me tell you something. People in stands still have a very vague idea what they are even watching. You might not believe me, but many of them have no clue what the blue line is and what icing really means.

When Tampa was sucking (before they won the Cup), they were not selling nearly as much as they are selling now. They were hardly selling at 60% and the owner threatened to move the team to a new city. The team’s popularity picked up only about 2 years after they drafted Lecavalier. That’s what? 16 years after the team was formed? Hardly a measuring stick, no?

LA largely gained popularity thanks to Gretzky. Can we even argue about that?

But even with that, I’ll give you Tampa and LA. OK. Who else? Anaheim? They sell, but it’s been sporadic. Just like most of the expansion teams, their fanbase seems to reacting only to winning. Have a losing season, and they don’t get drawn nearly as much…

Atlanta? Nashville? Columbus? Minnesota? Carolina? Please….

I am not against expanding. I am against doing it stupidly. The fact that soccer in America starts drawing more fans tells us all we really need to know.

[radoran]

Minnesota is a hockeymad state - they lost the Stars because of their arena. If they're filling 90%+ I'm good with that.

Nashville is an interesting story. They have an attendance number they need to meet or they can leave. They're still filling 90% this season.

Winnpieg? Winnipeg essentially still has the small arena that couldn't work the first time.

Both Minnesota and Nashville are drawing more actual PEOPLE than Winnipeg.

I don't see where Winnipeg's 15.004 is an indication that it will thrive while Nasvhille (16,333 avg.) and Minnesota (16,965) are indications they are obviously failing.

[radoran]

I think Winnipeg will work out in the long run. If I remember correctly the Jets originally left because of the small arena and the weak Canadian dollar. They had decent attendance it was just that their arena/market was too small. If you sort that list by average attendance all of a sudden Winnipeg falls to 23rd in the league (even with 100% attendance).

They have the same sized building and are selling out at 15,004. It's almost impossible for them to be anything but in the 20s in league attendance.

Their market is actually relatively smaller now than it was before. Last time, it was bigger than Quebec - now 20K less than Quebec.

I *hope* Winnipeg works out. I'd *hope* that Quebec could work.

[Podein25]

Winnpieg? Winnipeg essentially still has the small arena that couldn't work the first time.

You're dead wrong on this one rad. The difference is massive. The dollar, the CBA (cost certainty), new revenue streams, deep pocketed owners, the list goes on and on. You realize that STHs had to commit to 3 and 5 year commitments right? Think about that for a second. This was like buying a car for most people in terms of the scale of the commitment. That means revenues that are entirely predictable and reliable for 3-5 years. They have community and government partnerships for expanding/enhancing the arena. I could go on and on.

And to others who think the team "sucks ass," I'd say they need to consider that it has a number of exciting prospects (e.g. Burmistrov, Bogosian, Scheifele etc) and management with a proven track record at developing prospects (e.g. Kessler, Bieksa, Edler, Burrows, Hansen etc etc)