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"Flyers to make multiple trades"


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http://bleacherrepor...multiple-trades

Well, it seems as though the Philadelphia Flyers have seen the light a bit.

After the absolute beatdown the Boston Bruins handed to the Flyers Saturday afternoon in South Philadelphia, or as Kimmo Timonen described it, "a good old fashioned butt-kicking," it appears that it has been the Flyers' intention to make a trade to round out their defense, even before Chris Pronger was ruled out.

If you believe the multiple reports, including Eklund's, it seems as though the Flyers know it's just a matter of time before they have to pull the trigger on a trade. Eklund seems to think there will be two trades. One for a "5/6 defenseman" and another bigger trade at the deadline for a player like Shea Weber.

I can't say I disagree. I think the Flyers are on the same page with what I've been writing for a few weeks now. Philadelphia simply cannot rely on their rookies down the stretch. Yes, their play has been good, but come playoff time, half of these guys have no experience.

Ek believes that the Flyers will go for a guy like Tim Gleason from Carolina—someone who I wrote that the Flyers might target in an article a few weeks back. You can check that article out here.

The one thing I disagree with, however, is that it will only be two moves. I believe the Flyers make a total of three moves, unless Claude Giroux suddenly gets better and his symptoms vanish.

Even though the Flyers have a ton of offensive depth, I still think they will make a move, even if just a minor one, for another forward. I don't expect a Bobby Ryan, as that isn't their glaring need at this point, but I do think Holmgren will look into some possibilities at forward.

For another good read on the Flyers and Weber, check out Eric Engels' piece here. Eric makes a good point. He cites last year's disappointing playoff performance and attributes it to missing "a Pronger-like presence," and I couldn't agree with him more.

It remains to be seen what the Flyers will do, but I don't expect them to sit pat at the deadline this year, that's for sure. The Flyers want to win now, and that's why they've made these bold moves. They will continue to try to improve, and it won't be long before the dominoes start to fall.

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I couldn't disagree more - if I was running the show this whole "we want to win now" nonsense would vanish overnight. God I am so sick of it. Yeah right, we got swept out of the 2nd round because Pronger wasn't available. Sure. And Buff took us to 7 games for the same reason. Never mind that the whole team was a bag of dysfunction at that point, and had been since the TD.

If we gut this team for Weber we are beyond stupid and we deserve to lose for the next 40 years. Oh sure if you can get it done without giving away the store, go ahead. But it ain't happening...

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I couldn't disagree more - if I was running the show this whole "we want to win now" nonsense would vanish overnight. God I am so sick of it. Yeah right, we got swept out of the 2nd round because Pronger wasn't available. Sure. And Buff took us to 7 games for the same reason. Never mind that the whole team was a bag of dysfunction at that point, and had been since the TD.

If we gut this team for Weber we are beyond stupid and we deserve to lose for the next 40 years. Oh sure if you can get it done without giving away the store, go ahead. But it ain't happening...

@canoli

Completely (or at least mostly) agree ;)

The cost for Weber will be high. I'm guessing something like Couturier, Carle, and a 1st to get the conversation started. Bob is a more valuable chip, but Nashville isn't interested I'm sure. Carle helps offset the loss of Weber somewhat, and Couturier gives them a promising young rookie.

I would easily make that trade if Schenn was more of a known quantity and not made of glass, but as it stands now, we have no idea about Schenn. But we do know how good Couturier is now as a rookie. Carle, well, he will be a UFA. I'd like to keep him, but of course, would rather have Weber.

And our 1st will probably be in the bottom third, but it's supposed to be a deep draft this year, and we've plucked some gems late in the first (Giroux and Richards come to mind).

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@canoli

Gut the team? If we packaged JVR and some picks, we aren't really losing a lot presently. We've got a lot of youth playing, with Schenn still not on the team. Losing JVR (or Schenn) isn't going to have much of an effect, and Weber gives us a real Norris type, not a once upon a time. With the young talent we have at forward, we can miss a couple of drafts if we're getting that kind of help at D. And I HATE trading picks, especially this draft with many good Dmen in it.

Of course none of this will matter if the turnstile we've installed in net doesn't get his act together.

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@canoli

Gut the team? If we packaged JVR and some picks, we aren't really losing a lot presently. We've got a lot of youth playing, with Schenn still not on the team. Losing JVR (or Schenn) isn't going to have much of an effect, and Weber gives us a real Norris type, not a once upon a time. With the young talent we have at forward, we can miss a couple of drafts if we're getting that kind of help at D. And I HATE trading picks, especially this draft with many good Dmen in it.

Of course none of this will matter if the turnstile we've installed in net doesn't get his act together.

But if we're so willing to throw in JVR in any trade talk, doesn't that kind of speak to his low value in a trade? JVR and Schenn right now do not have as much value as Bob or Couturier. One of those two will have to go to get a quality top pairing defenseman back. Plus, we will have to shed more salary on top of that.

I think canoli might be talking more about the combination of what we will be trading away, and what needs to be done after the trade to accommodate the salary.

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I don't think this team is good enough to go "all in" and pretend that Shea Weber will overnight make the Flyers the team to beat in the East. My strategy would be to trade for 3 or 4 D-man with a contract of 3.5 million/yr or less on the last year of his deal. This would help the team and give them a chance to compete this year without throwing away the future to make a blockbuster trade.

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@PhilsFanDrew

I agree, sign a top 4 talent, at a top 4 talent number and try to resign Carle, who has shaken off what ever was causing him to play tentatively early this year at a similar top 4 talent number and roll with coburn, metzaros, carle, player X as your core, timmonen is still effective and is a top pairing guy for the duration of his contract, fill in spot 6 with Gustaffson and Bourdon, those guys get minutes and aren't the black hole the bottom pairing has turned into in playoffs past. there is no need to gut the team for Shea Webber. none. oh and buy out CP with the new cba allowance ;)

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Greetings:

Just remember, Honer told us he wasn't sure if we'd be better or worse, just different.

So, we have team that shows good effort and moves the puck well. It scores well. And on occasion it plays sound D.

But we have a higher GAA than last year. Our two goalies have sub .900 save percentage. Homer tells us his top four are good. OK, but the facts and his perception don't square.

Pronger is probably history. Timmo comes next. Meznaros is probably a keeper but Coburn and Carle, especially the former...who knows?

I think one of our defenders and JVR go by season's end. But I wonder if it will be for a D man. Do we need a defensive forward?

Overall, I would say this team is in better shape than I or most folks predicted. The experts pegged us as a marginal playoff team. Maybe we end there but right now that isn't the case. But our goaltending performance...that is a bit scary.

Best,

Howie

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I couldn't disagree more - if I was running the show this whole "we want to win now" nonsense would vanish overnight. God I am so sick of it. Yeah right, we got swept out of the 2nd round because Pronger wasn't available. Sure. And Buff took us to 7 games for the same reason. Never mind that the whole team was a bag of dysfunction at that point, and had been since the TD.

If we gut this team for Weber we are beyond stupid and we deserve to lose for the next 40 years. Oh sure if you can get it done without giving away the store, go ahead. But it ain't happening...

They don't have to necessarily gut this team to get Weber, but they probably have to give up JVR and Schenn or JVR and a 1st. I'd do it for JVR and a first.

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I don't think this team is good enough to go "all in" and pretend that Shea Weber will overnight make the Flyers the team to beat in the East. My strategy would be to trade for 3 or 4 D-man with a contract of 3.5 million/yr or less on the last year of his deal. This would help the team and give them a chance to compete this year without throwing away the future to make a blockbuster trade.

Trading for Weber is not an "all in" short term move. If you can get Weber you sign him for the long haul and make runs year after year with him and Giroux.

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@brelic

Nashville doesn't need Bob, they have Rinne. They need scoring, and likely a defenceman (IF they deal Weber, which is a big IF) JVR and Schenn (as well as Couturier) still have potential. I'd trade any of them in a package for Weber. And I'm not and never have been one of the "it's a trade, any trade, lets do it" guy. I'm just thinking the only way we compete with the Bruins, at least until (a) Thomas comes beck to earth (B) Chara gets old and © our goalie plays like a #1 should is to acquire Weber, if we can. It's either that or we wait for something to come along. And we've been waiting a long time for that.

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@brelic

Nashville doesn't need Bob, they have Rinne. They need scoring, and likely a defenceman (IF they deal Weber, which is a big IF) JVR and Schenn (as well as Couturier) still have potential. I'd trade any of them in a package for Weber. And I'm not and never have been one of the "it's a trade, any trade, lets do it" guy. I'm just thinking the only way we compete with the Bruins, at least until (a) Thomas comes beck to earth ( B) Chara gets old and © our goalie plays like a #1 should is to acquire Weber, if we can. It's either that or we wait for something to come along. And we've been waiting a long time for that.

I know they don't want Bob... I thought I mentioned that in this thread, though it might be another one, lol.

But, Bob is still a great trading chip, and could be used with another team to bolster our defense.

Or, we could even offer a guy like McCabe $1-2M just for this season. He would help on the PP. Temporary solution that does not muck up the roster or the future.

Would Toronto be willing to move Schenn? What about Hedman in TB? Roloson and Garon are not long-term goaltending solutions, and Bob might be very attractive.

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Schenn has had a bad year. I still think he'll be a good shutdown defenceman, but I doubt Burke gives up on him easy. I can't see Tampa moving Hedman unless you blow them away in a deal, which we don't want to do. Weber may just be a pipedream. But it seems like Nashville can't afford him (and I'm in no way sure about that) and he's also exactly what this team has needed since, well, 1967.

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@canoli

Gut the team? If we packaged JVR and some picks, we aren't really losing a lot presently. We've got a lot of youth playing, with Schenn still not on the team. Losing JVR (or Schenn) isn't going to have much of an effect, and Weber gives us a real Norris type, not a once upon a time. With the young talent we have at forward, we can miss a couple of drafts if we're getting that kind of help at D. And I HATE trading picks, especially this draft with many good Dmen in it.

Of course none of this will matter if the turnstile we've installed in net doesn't get his act together.

I agree with you we should go for Weber, he's still young and going into his prime and one of the top 5 dmen in the league right now. I hated that we get the dman or great players in there 30s and only have a couple good seasons with us before their play drops off. Weber can give us 7-8 great years.I don't think it would gut this team if we get him, maybe JVR, Gustavsson/Carle, Harry Z and picks? I would include Carle in the trade but we need him right now unless Homer can find another solid cheaper alternative then I would include him. As for being competitive after this trade, Homer has always found ways for this team to be in playoff contention even with us tight against the cap. We made the playoffs in 15 of the last 16 years if I remember correctly. I hate giving up on JVR but we still not sure how he's gonna turn out in the distant future while Weber is a sure thing and Norris candidate.

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If Homer wants to trade players he should start with the veterans,the Flyers are top heavy with NHL senior citizens.The younger guys are the real future,ask Nathan Horton,this season has a breath of fresh air,unfortunately Bryzo is an unpatched leak in the game plan.Isn't JVR recovering from a torn stomach muscle? Does anybody miss Philly.com?

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I know they don't want Bob... I thought I mentioned that in this thread, though it might be another one, lol.

But, Bob is still a great trading chip, and could be used with another team to bolster our defense.

Or, we could even offer a guy like McCabe $1-2M just for this season. He would help on the PP. Temporary solution that does not muck up the roster or the future.

Would Toronto be willing to move Schenn? What about Hedman in TB? Roloson and Garon are not long-term goaltending solutions, and Bob might be very attractive.

Schenn and Hedman I don't mind getting but they aren't the sure thing we geting. Homer has been ripped off by those 2 GM if you remember. TB needs needs Hedman as much as we do and they also need a goalie. They know Homer is gonna be desperate and will demand alot so I rather give up alittle more for Weber. Those 2 are young and still developing, we aren't sure if they will be in Weber's class or gonna be the next Coburn. I would be frustrated as hell if they are.

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Schenn and Hedman I don't mind getting but they aren't the sure thing we geting. Homer has been ripped off by those 2 GM if you remember. TB needs needs Hedman as much as we do and they also need a goalie. They know Homer is gonna be desperate and will demand alot so I rather give up alittle more for Weber. Those 2 are young and still developing, we aren't sure if they will be in Weber's class or gonna be the next Coburn. I would be frustrated as hell if they are.

Coburn is pretty darn good. He's no franchise cornerstone, but he also doesn't get paid like one. I would rather take a chance on a guy like Schenn or Hedman (or another early 20s defenseman), especially that both of those two have nice, reasonable cap hits and contracts. I'm seriously uninterested in tying up $8M+ in one defenseman, especially when the whole Pronger thing is not going away for 5 more years.

Not sure what the rush is... get a nice, young defenseman (and by young, I mean not hitting his prime like Suter or Weber) who will grow with G, JVR, Schenn, Couturier, Read, Simmonds, Voracek.

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Trading for Weber is not an "all in" short term move. If you can get Weber you sign him for the long haul and make runs year after year with him and Giroux.

There is no guarantee they will be able to sign him long term. There are too many long term, high money contracts on the books that aren't easy to move due to age and contractual agreements (NMC/NTC). I'm not questioning our ability to make the trade for this season. I am questioning the addition of another long term, high money contract to a team that is already strapped with too many.

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Coburn is pretty darn good. He's no franchise cornerstone, but he also doesn't get paid like one. I would rather take a chance on a guy like Schenn or Hedman (or another early 20s defenseman), especially that both of those two have nice, reasonable cap hits and contracts. I'm seriously uninterested in tying up $8M+ in one defenseman, especially when the whole Pronger thing is not going away for 5 more years.

Not sure what the rush is... get a nice, young defenseman (and by young, I mean not hitting his prime like Suter or Weber) who will grow with G, JVR, Schenn, Couturier, Read, Simmonds, Voracek.

Coburn is good for who he is now, there was the hype of how he was gonna be a stud or all star when he first arrive. I guess I bought into that hype and just disappointed that he's not Weber/Suter like or even in the top dozen dman. I've come to realize that we can't expect much more then what he's already at.

As for the young dman to grow with the forwards, it's gonna be hard to get as teams aren't gonna want to move them for a reasonable offer as they are more in demands then available. I don't think Weber will get 8+ mil, I'm fine with him at 7mil just like Doughty. Weber's only 26, 2-3 years older then Giroux. So the age difference isn't that much great. If we can manage Weber in somehow for next year then Timo comes off the book. We will always be looking to get a clear cut no.1 guy no matter what. Homer tried it by commitee and it didn't work so he went out and got Pronger to anchor the d. Look what Pronger has done for us in the postseason as compare it to when he was out. Weber is no Pronger but to me he's just as close as you can get, plus he's a righthanded dman we also desperately need for the PP.

Did you know Hedman just signed a extension for 4mil/year for five years starting next year? He's still developing and we aren't sure if he will be great or a bust but that's alot of money for him right now but that's the market I guess. Schenn on the other hand is at 3.6mil but I don't see him being in the elite class but I can be wrong.

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There is no guarantee they will be able to sign him long term. There are too many long term, high money contracts on the books that aren't easy to move due to age and contractual agreements (NMC/NTC). I'm not questioning our ability to make the trade for this season. I am questioning the addition of another long term, high money contract to a team that is already strapped with too many.

There's only 3 right now, Pronger(ltir), Bryz and Briere.Timo comes off the book after next season, hell I would trade Briere in a heartbeat to get Weber since we have a young set of centers.

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There is no guarantee they will be able to sign him long term. There are too many long term, high money contracts on the books that aren't easy to move due to age and contractual agreements (NMC/NTC). I'm not questioning our ability to make the trade for this season. I am questioning the addition of another long term, high money contract to a team that is already strapped with too many.

If there was ever a guy who we needed to give a long term big money contract to it would be a guy like Weber.

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Coburn is good for who he is now, there was the hype of how he was gonna be a stud or all star when he first arrive. I guess I bought into that hype and just disappointed that he's not Weber/Suter like or even in the top dozen dman. I've come to realize that we can't expect much more then what he's already at.

I don't know what you read, but Coburn is developing into exactly what his scouting reports from juniors projected him to be- a solid, smooth skating, stay at home defenseman with limited offense:

http://www.hockeysfu.../braydon_coburn

Talent Analysis

Coburn is a mostly stay at home defenseman who skates very well and makes a good outlet pass. Though not a bruiser, he uses his size to his advantage.

Future

Coburn is still loaded with all the right raw materials and his potential remains extremely high. But neither offensively gifted nor a physical force, Coburn’s career hinges on him being very solidly defensively, and that’s where he needs to improve.

Edited by JackStraw
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Coburn is good for who he is now, there was the hype of how he was gonna be a stud or all star when he first arrive. I guess I bought into that hype and just disappointed that he's not Weber/Suter like or even in the top dozen dman. I've come to realize that we can't expect much more then what he's already at.

As for the young dman to grow with the forwards, it's gonna be hard to get as teams aren't gonna want to move them for a reasonable offer as they are more in demands then available. I don't think Weber will get 8+ mil, I'm fine with him at 7mil just like Doughty. Weber's only 26, 2-3 years older then Giroux. So the age difference isn't that much great. If we can manage Weber in somehow for next year then Timo comes off the book. We will always be looking to get a clear cut no.1 guy no matter what. Homer tried it by commitee and it didn't work so he went out and got Pronger to anchor the d. Look what Pronger has done for us in the postseason as compare it to when he was out. Weber is no Pronger but to me he's just as close as you can get, plus he's a righthanded dman we also desperately need for the PP.

Did you know Hedman just signed a extension for 4mil/year for five years starting next year? He's still developing and we aren't sure if he will be great or a bust but that's alot of money for him right now but that's the market I guess. Schenn on the other hand is at 3.6mil but I don't see him being in the elite class but I can be wrong.

Coburn may have never turned out as good as he was expected when drafted, but for what we got him for and what he's paid, he's a pretty damn good deal in my books.

Weber is no Pronger?

I'd say over the last 2 years, and from here on in, that Pronger is no Weber. I'd take Weber over him all day long.

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