Defense is weak and our top two propects are hurt Bourdons skull is an eggshell

[pilldoc]

Cooke doesn't do that anymore... he's a born again Lady Byng! Crosby on the other hand... that dirty good for nothing...

LOL...glad YOU said that..I will give you a friendly reminder when we are pissssing and moanind about Crosby in a couple of games from now when he takes a hack at Roo.

[Mad Dog]

Crosby on the other hand... that dirty good for nothing...

REPORTED!

[Dynamo 47]

This might help to get you a little more psyched about having another physical element on D to join Grossman

- Schenn crushes Crosby

- Brutal hit on Malkin

[pilldoc]

This might help to get you a little more psyched about having another physical element on D to join Grossman

- Schenn crushes Crosby

- Brutal hit on Malkin

Nice...just as long as the Zebra's put away the whistles...because you know everyone that wears the O&B sweater and makes a hit like..you just know it has got to be a penalty....

Edited January 10, 2013 by pilldoc

[Polaris922]

It humors me that Flyers fans feel the officials are prejudiced against the Flyers. I think every team in the league's fans feel their team is singled out. I used to hear it in New York, Boston, Jersey, and here in the 'Burgh. I just think they're inconsistent and we always remember when it tilts against us.

[B21]

OK, you're starting to fit in here way too good!

What's the world coming to? Next think you know the Flyers will have a legitimate #1 goalie!

[pilldoc]

What's the world coming to? Next think you know the Flyers will have a legitimate #1 goalie!

We can only hope.....

[pilldoc]

It humors me that Flyers fans feel the officials are prejudiced against the Flyers. I think every team in the league's fans feel their team is singled out. I used to hear it in New York, Boston, Jersey, and here in the 'Burgh. I just think they're inconsistent and we always remember when it tilts against us.

Because for the vast majority of the time I have seen hits by opposing players that should have been a penalty and then a Flyer player makes a hit far less severe and we all see the officials hand go up....does it happen all the time...of course not. But I have seen the scale tip in the way the Flyers get penalized more.

We have all been down this road before with numerous posts last spring...BUT there is a very really perception out there that Crosby and Malkin get away with alittle bit more than what they should be...just saying.....

[flyercanuck]

It humors me that Flyers fans feel the officials are prejudiced against the Flyers. I think every team in the league's fans feel their team is singled out. I used to hear it in New York, Boston, Jersey, and here in the 'Burgh. I just think they're inconsistent and we always remember when it tilts against us.

For the most part I would agree (which makes me wonder why it only humours you when Flyer fans do it if everyone else is :P/> ) But only a Flyer (Steve Downie) gets a 20 game suspension in an exhibition game as a rookie with no previous NHL history, while only a Pen (Matt Cooke) could get away with all the crap he pulled for so long until it was becoming embarrassing. Matt Cooke had already made a career of being a ****** when Downie came into the league, yet was never given that long of a suspension, even with his history of douchebaggery and his multiple attempts to injure

[brelic]

It humors me that Flyers fans feel the officials are prejudiced against the Flyers. I think every team in the league's fans feel their team is singled out. I used to hear it in New York, Boston, Jersey, and here in the 'Burgh. I just think they're inconsistent and we always remember when it tilts against us.

Sure, and that's why Downie got 20 games for a preseason hit, and Cooke got zilch.

No bias there.

[flyercanuck]

What's the world coming to? Next think you know the Flyers will have a legitimate #1 goalie!

We can only hope.....

We've only been hoping for 25 frickin years!

[brelic]

For the most part I would agree (which makes me wonder why it only humours you when Flyer fans do it if everyone else is ) But only a Flyer (Steve Downie) gets a 25 game suspension in an exhibition game as a rookie with no previous NHL history, while only a Pen (Matt Cooke) could get away with all the crap he pulled for so long until it was becoming embarrassing. Matt Cooke had already made a career of being a ****** when Downie came into the league, yet was never given that long of a suspension, even with his history of douchebaggery and his multiple attempts to injure

Haha, I made my post without even seeing yours... guess we're on the same conspiracy page

[flyercanuck]

Well it was about as obvious as it could get.

[Polaris922]

For the most part I would agree (which makes me wonder why it only humours you when Flyer fans do it if everyone else is :P/> ) But only a Flyer (Steve Downie) gets a 20 game suspension in an exhibition game as a rookie with no previous NHL history, while only a Pen (Matt Cooke) could get away with all the crap he pulled for so long until it was becoming embarrassing. Matt Cooke had already made a career of being a ****** when Downie came into the league, yet was never given that long of a suspension, even with his history of douchebaggery and his multiple attempts to injure

Sure, and that's why Downie got 20 games for a preseason hit, and Cooke got zilch.

No bias there.

Downie? Seriously defending Downie for his clear intent to injure Dean McAmmond in a preseason game where McAmmond had to be carried off on a stretcher and suffered a severe concussion? Honestly regardless of previous infractions 20 games was deserved for that kind of a hit. Watch it again if you have to. He left his feet and gave mcAmmond a flying elbow to the face when he wasn't even with the puck. You could've picked something defendable at least. Downie got what he deserved for that hit, regardless of no prior history. That had nothing to do with the uniform, that had to do with the scumbag that did it and the severity of the injury. Plus you had Campbell issuing the suspensions back then, and that meant major inconsistencies all around the league.

Now on to Cooke... he played like a dirtbag for years. I hated that side of his play. He got deserved suspensions for hits on Anisimov (no injury) and Walker (no injury), and routinely got two game suspensions. The major difference is that until the hit on Savard there were no serious injuries to his opponents, which is why I think punishments ran in the two to five games range. Then the whole Savard thing and the NHL rightfully determined the hit was within the rules, creating the new head hits rule to correct it. Doesn't make you like him any less, but on a team with Pronger you've got to be kidding me if the hit within the rules is the issue when a guy like Pronger stomps men's legs with skate blades and he's your hero. The most serious suspension was a ten game for the elbow to McDonaugh. Another play where the target was uninjured, but Cooke received a ten game plus the first round of the playoffs suspension to make him change his ways. So far.. he's done that... NOW I like him. Before I didn't.

So how exactly has Downie paid a price that Cooke hasn't? Cooke has more incidents but no serious injuries till the Savard hit which the league admits was legal. McDonaugh wasn't injured but Cooke got 10 games plus a playoff round to curb his enthusiasm. Your Flyers are oh so prejudiced against... *cough cough*

[brelic]

Downie? Seriously defending Downie for his clear intent to injure Dean McAmmond in a preseason game where McAmmond had to be carried off on a stretcher and suffered a severe concussion? Honestly regardless of previous infractions 20 games was deserved for that kind of a hit. Watch it again if you have to. He left his feet and gave mcAmmond a flying elbow to the face when he wasn't even with the puck. You could've picked something defendable at least. Downie got what he deserved for that hit, regardless of no prior history. That had nothing to do with the uniform, that had to do with the scumbag that did it and the severity of the injury. Plus you had Campbell issuing the suspensions back then, and that meant major inconsistencies all around the league.

Now on to Cooke... he played like a dirtbag for years. I hated that side of his play. He got deserved suspensions for hits on Anisimov (no injury) and Walker (no injury), and routinely got two game suspensions. The major difference is that until the hit on Savard there were no serious injuries to his opponents, which is why I think punishments ran in the two to five games range. Then the whole Savard thing and the NHL rightfully determined the hit was within the rules, creating the new head hits rule to correct it. Doesn't make you like him any less, but on a team with Pronger you've got to be kidding me if the hit within the rules is the issue when a guy like Pronger stomps men's legs with skate blades and he's your hero. The most serious suspension was a ten game for the elbow to McDonaugh. Another play where the target was uninjured, but Cooke received a ten game plus the first round of the playoffs suspension to make him change his ways. So far.. he's done that... NOW I like him. Before I didn't.

So how exactly has Downie paid a price that Cooke hasn't? Cooke has more incidents but no serious injuries till the Savard hit which the league admits was legal. McDonaugh wasn't injured but Cooke got 10 games plus a playoff round to curb his enthusiasm. Your Flyers are oh so prejudiced against... *cough cough*

Spoken like a true homer And it's not meant to be a dig, but just that fans have biases.

Good thing it's only a sport!

[Polaris922]

Spoken like a true homer ;)/> And it's not meant to be a dig, but just that fans have biases.

Good thing it's only a sport!

How is saying a guy was a dirtbag before he changed his game being a homer?? Lol. I just hope he doesn't go back to it. THAT is what I worry about! If he does I want him gone.

[brelic]

How is saying a guy was a dirtbag before he changed his game being a homer?? Lol. I just hope he doesn't go back to it. THAT is what I worry about! If he does I want him gone.

I'm saying that we'll just go in circles if we start to argue over dirty hits, ref biases, and all that good stuff! The bottom line is that there are double-standards in the league (and I don't just mean for/against the Flyers) but everyone sees them from different lenses.

I'm just excited to have hockey back. Not sure how much I'll get to watch though...

[flyercanuck]

@Polaris922

The Downie hit was bad. 20 games for a 1st offence was ridiculous. Especially when a guy like Cooke has never received 20 games even with a history for dirty play and cheapshots as bad as anyone who's ever played. If Cooke wore orange and black his supensions would likely double in length. The fact he's been up in front of the league for discipline muliple times, has been suspended multiple times, has been called the dirtiest player in the league by almost everyone, yet still has never been suspended as long as Downie pretty much says it all for me. I'd like to agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.

[Polaris922]

@Polaris922

The Downie hit was bad. 20 games for a 1st offence was ridiculous. Especially when a guy like Cooke has never received 20 games even with a history for dirty play and cheapshots as bad as anyone who's ever played. If Cooke wore orange and black his supensions would likely double in length. The fact he's been up in front of the league for discipline muliple times, has been suspended multiple times, has been called the dirtiest player in the league by almost everyone, yet still has never been suspended as long as Downie pretty much says it all for me. I'd like to agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.

Again you're failing to weigh in the injuries caused, which is ALWAYS a consideration for the NHL when determining punishment. Add the inconsistencies of Campbell, the reputation Downie brought into the league for blasting his own teammate in the face with a stick... Aggravating circumstance in that hit of McAmmond's severe concussion vs. no serious injuries on Cooke's hits... Cooke was suspended 14 minimum 17 maximum for the McDonaugh hit where there was NO injury at all... 4-7 of them playoff games... I don't see any disparity there. 20 games at the start if the season after severe injury vs. 10 games at the end plus the first playoff round after no injury based solely on Cooke's history? I think in this case you guys are earning the ever present "Cryers" label.

[doom88]

The league posts a memo to all teams about message sending in the playoffs, then recinds a earned automatic suspension. I won't list each moment in last season's Pens playoff series...but it must be nice to get away with intent to injure on a regular basis. Hell, Crosby even admitted as much with Gs wrists!

Cryers? Somewhat well deserved nickname. But, it's also because there is substance in the *****ing. That year with the Downie and Boulerice suspension, and I think behold Randy that season too - ridiculous. That crap is the problem, not as much as the fans complaints.

[B21]

@Polaris922

The Downie hit was bad. 20 games for a 1st offence was ridiculous. Especially when a guy like Cooke has never received 20 games even with a history for dirty play and cheapshots as bad as anyone who's ever played. If Cooke wore orange and black his supensions would likely double in length. The fact he's been up in front of the league for discipline muliple times, has been suspended multiple times, has been called the dirtiest player in the league by almost everyone, yet still has never been suspended as long as Downie pretty much says it all for me. I'd like to agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.

You have to get over this 20 games = because he's a Flyer. Downie had a history in Juniors...to the point where he was asked to get counseling. Matt Cooke ever need anger managerment? Then in his first pre-season he takes out McCammon with one of the dirtiest hits I've ever seen and with clear intent to injure....probaly to make a name for himself. Mission accomplished. If you are the NHL and you have a a kid with his history pull that BS in his first pre-season you damn well better thrown the book at him in an effort to put an end to his nonsense. Turns out that the league spot on as far as what kind of player he is. Matt Cooke ever slash an official? Cooke is no angel but Downie is by far the dirtier player in any color uniform.

[doom88]

You have to get over this 20 games = because he's a Flyer. Downie had a history in Juniors...to the point where he was asked to get counseling. Matt Cooke ever need anger managerment? Then in his first pre-season he takes out McCammon with one of the dirtiest hits I've ever seen and with clear intent to injure....probaly to make a name for himself. Mission accomplished. If you are the NHL and you have a a kid with his history pull that BS in his first pre-season you damn well better thrown the book at him in an effort to put an end to his nonsense. Turns out that the league spot on as far as what kind of player he is. Matt Cooke ever slash an official? Cooke is no angel but Downie is by far the dirtier player in any color uniform.

It's hard to have a history when the NHL selectively sweeps it under the rug. Malkin and Neal go headhunting last post-season and successfully injure players, while Crosby successfully breaks Giroux's wrists AND jokes about it in the press. Let's not forget Kunitz taking out Timonen on a knee on knee which apparently wasn't, successfully injuring Timonen for the rest of the playoffs (and changing the tide in the series for Pit to win).

Look, Downie isn't the rosiest example (understatement), but Philly regularly gets shafted relative to their cross-state friends. How would you like it if a Flyer "jumps to protect himself" while actually headhunting, or elbows your strongest defenseman in the head behind the play with no call? You wouldn't like it. And that's the same reason why fans on this forum don't like it.

[flyercanuck]

@B21

I don't recall the NHL ever using a players junior career as a history other than Downie...ever. And until last season, Cooke was the perennial winner of leagues dirtiest player...other than those wearing baby blue coloured glasses.

Malkins elbows to the head have become legendary. He can start a fight with les than 5 minutes left in a playoff game. He can do whatever he wants out there, they refuse to give HIM a history.

[B21]

It's hard to have a history when the NHL selectively sweeps it under the rug. Malkin and Neal go headhunting last post-season and successfully injure players, while Crosby successfully breaks Giroux's wrists AND jokes about it in the press. Let's not forget Kunitz taking out Timonen on a knee on knee which apparently wasn't, successfully injuring Timonen for the rest of the playoffs (and changing the tide in the series for Pit to win).

Look, Downie isn't the rosiest example (understatement), but Philly regularly gets shafted relative to their cross-state friends. How would you like it if a Flyer "jumps to protect himself" while actually headhunting, or elbows your strongest defenseman in the head behind the play with no call? You wouldn't like it. And that's the same reason why fans on this forum don't like it.

I've posted laundry lists of things your guys have done and gotten away it. That works both ways. Not to mention....none of that has anything to do with Downie. Flyers. Pens. Not even part of the equation. If we are talking strictly about Downie....he had proven more than worthy of every suspension ever assessed and then some.

[B21]

@B21

I don't recall the NHL ever using a players junior career as a history other than Downie...ever. And until last season, Cooke was the perennial winner of leagues dirtiest player...other than those wearing baby blue coloured glasses.

Malkins elbows to the head have become legendary. He can start a fight with les than 5 minutes left in a playoff game. He can do whatever he wants out there, they refuse to give HIM history.

Re: Downie. Has any rookie ever laid a hit like that on a guy in his first preseason? Your slate from Junions should not follow you throughout your career but it should not be wiped clean the minute you enter the NHL either. We aren't talking about the league using some incident from Juniors as a reason to suspended a veteran. It was his FIRST preseason after coming out of Junions with a bad (and earned) reputation. If you wan't to argue McCrimmon getting hurt that badly had an impact on the length I'll buy in. But Downie more than desereved a long suspension.

As for Cooke, he only started racking up suspensions when he came to the Pens. He was suspended once in his 8 years before then. We all know what has happened since. So what now...Vancouver Canuck favoritism? NHL having it in for the Pens of all things? After all, if this PERENNIAL POS/dirtiest player only starts getting suspended regularly AFTER signing with the Pens I have to wonder about a lot of things the Pens "get away" with that other teams/players don't. You've said repeatedly Cooke had been like this since Juniors...so why did he get away with things for so long in Vancouver? Why only after he comes to Pittsburgh do 1) Flyer fans start taking notice of him and 2) he starts racking up suspensions?

Both Cooke and Downie have gotten what they have deserved as far as NHL discipline. The only issue anyone can take with Cooke is that it took the league "too long" to drop the hammer. When they did, they clearly made up for lost time.

The one difference - at least for now - is that Cooke appears to have gotten the message. Downie clearly did not.