We are a finesse team

[caluso]

the reality is that gomer has built a team that has trouble winning key battles. we are soft.

look at the losing goal from today's game. our top line (as an aside, can we get schett off of there, please; he's a third-liner at best) had all three guys battling for the puck in center ice - and still managed to lose possession of the puck to only 2 sabres. as a result, the sabres had numbers and speed heading into our zone. the result was a penalty by the other schett brother, and ultimately the game losing goal.

until we toughen up the roster, we will be solely reliant on our speed up front - and that doesn't bode well in the east anymore (boston, rangers, buffalo, ottawa, washington, devils are all tougher / better than we are).

[PHI Flyers10]

What are the schetts?

[caluso]

luke and brayden

another of gomer's huge miscalculations

[Philly29]

the reality is that gomer has built a team that has trouble winning key battles. we are soft.

look at the losing goal from today's game. our top line (as an aside, can we get schett off of there, please; he's a third-liner at best) had all three guys battling for the puck in center ice - and still managed to lose possession of the puck to only 2 sabres. as a result, the sabres had numbers and speed heading into our zone. the result was a penalty by the other schett brother, and ultimately the game losing goal.

until we toughen up the roster, we will be solely reliant on our speed up front - and that doesn't bode well in the east anymore (boston, rangers, buffalo, ottawa, washington, devils are all tougher / better than we are).

What does mishandling the puck half to do with being soft? How are we a soft team? Guys like Hartnell, Simmonds, Schenn brothers, Giroux, Grossman...are not soft, there big and or tough group of guys. The Rangers got there asses kicked today are they soft? Edited January 21, 2013 by Philly29

[Irishjim]

the sky is falling the sky is falling. burn the wagons eat the children the world is coming to and end....its only 2 games and if it wasn't for 2 questionable goals being disallowed things might be different

[caluso]

"Guys like Hartnell, Simmonds, Schenn brothers, Giroux, Grossman...are not soft, there big and or tough group of guys."

we are VERY soft up front and will continue to lose games against more physical teams. briere, read, voracek, couturier, talbot, giroux, schenn are not bangers, power forwards who put fear in opposing d men on the forecheck.

you referenced the Rangers, well they are MUCH bigger and tougher than we are and kicked our butts last year - or is your memory failing. it is not a coincidence that they beat us EVERY game last year. they are bigger and stronger than we are: they pound you and hit anything that we moves, in addition to playing very disciplined defence.

while i agree that simmonds and hartnell are tough up front, i contend that we don't have enough bangers to win the necessary battles that win close, playoff like hockey games. schenn and giroux are certainly not "bangers."

as an aside, i don't see what schenn has done to deserve being on the first line. during the lockout, he was decent, very up and down, in the AHL - certainly not spectacular. and last year, he was mediocre. acquiring the schett brothers will set us back 5 years.

[Irishjim]

you referenced the Rangers, well they are MUCH bigger and tougher than we are and kicked our butts last year - or is your memory failing. it is not a coincidence that they beat us EVERY game last year. they are bigger and stronger than we are: they pound you and hit anything that we moves, in addition to playing very disciplined defence.

with that said there record is exactly the same as the flyers. so much for that toughness angle. in all seriousness take a step back off the ledge of the ben franklin bridge. take a deep breath its only 2 games into the season with 1 week of camp. the only issue i see is coming out flat in the first period, but that was how it was like last year. When they learn to fix that i feel everyting will be ok

[Philly29]

"Guys like Hartnell, Simmonds, Schenn brothers, Giroux, Grossman...are not soft, there big and or tough group of guys."

we are VERY soft up front and will continue to lose games against more physical teams. briere, read, voracek, couturier, talbot, giroux, schenn are not bangers, power forwards who put fear in opposing d men on the forecheck.

you referenced the Rangers, well they are MUCH bigger and tougher than we are and kicked our butts last year - or is your memory failing. it is not a coincidence that they beat us EVERY game last year. they are bigger and stronger than we are: they pound you and hit anything that we moves, in addition to playing very disciplined defence.

while i agree that simmonds and hartnell are tough up front, i contend that we don't have enough bangers to win the necessary battles that win close, playoff like hockey games. schenn and giroux are certainly not "bangers."

as an aside, i don't see what schenn has done to deserve being on the first line. during the lockout, he was decent, very up and down, in the AHL - certainly not spectacular. and last year, he was mediocre. acquiring the schett brothers will set us back 5 years.

Your the type who would bitch and complain if we where to big and slw up front and not enough finesse. So then we have more finesse up front and still retian some tough characters now where soft. What do you want man....Giroux might not be a banger but hes a hell of alot mor physical then Crosby. Where two games in dude don't jump off the ledge yet...for **** sake two *****g games after a 4 month lock out.....wtf

[PhilsFanDrew]

@caluso

The Rangers bangers? Really? Gaborik? Richards? Nash? Callahan maybe but they struggled for offense last year. Without Lundquist they are a very mediocre team.

[Polaris922]

You guys have had some really good bangers on your top lines through the years... how has that worked out so far? As an outsider looking in, I think your team now has more potential to win a seven game series than you had two years ago. Why? Because even the best bangers get beat up through a playoff run. Skill/talent go a lot further when it comes down to it. You NEED a few bangers... sure... but your top lines need talent more than just the ability to play the body. I think you have Hartnell and Simmonds on those line to be the bangers and get the pucks out of the corners... let the skill guys do the rest.

[RonJeremy]

The Rangers defense manhandled us, we could not do anyhting against Girardi and McDonoughna, our team is lots finesse up front, but we have some big wingers and no finesse on the blueline,

[aziz]

you referenced the Rangers, well they are MUCH bigger and tougher than we are and kicked our butts last year - or is your memory failing. it is not a coincidence that they beat us EVERY game last year.

no, it is not a coincidence, but your causation is off. lundqvist > bryzgalov. no need to dig other rabbit holes.

they are bigger and stronger than we are: they pound you and hit anything that we moves, in addition to playing very disciplined defence.

well. rags' average height/weight is 6'1"/205lbs. flyers: 6'2"/202lbs. kinda the same. and. go ahead and tell me how much of a tough customer marian gaborik is. or brad richards. or derek stepan. or anismov. or hagelin. or callahan. or, really, like16/20ths of their roster. yes, there is prust and asham and rupp, but seriously.

while i agree that simmonds and hartnell are tough up front, i contend that we don't have enough bangers to win the necessary battles that win close, playoff like hockey games.

hey, pssssst, the kings won the cup. carter of the frosted tips, kopitar, justin williams, simon gagne, etc. the only real hitters they had were brown, richards and clifford. there is not one way to do this thing, you know.

as for schenn, i agree he has a lot to prove, but i figure a point per game in the A over the lockout is some pretty good evidence, no? who would you rather in that spot?

and the two schenns have set the team back by 5 years? what does that even mean?

[caluso]

The Rangers bangers? Really? Gaborik? Richards? Nash? Callahan maybe but they struggled for offense last year. Without Lundquist they are a very mediocre team.

Tortorella has them ALL banging and blocking shots. It doesn't matter who they are, if they don't perform, they don't play. And, yes, Richards and Nash throw their weight around.

I stand by what I said, we need to get bigger and tougher up front. Let me be clear, getting bigger and tougher doesn't mean acquiring plodding goons, rather it means adding grittiness, guys who actually put fear into defensemen when they forecheck. We are 0-3 (soon to be 0-4) for several reasons, and one of them is that we aren't tough enough up front. We lose way too many puck battles.

Do you really think we could beat the Bruins or Rangers or Devils in a playoff series with the forwards we have?

The Rangers and Bruins would pound us into submission.

[caluso]

As for the Schenns setting us back 5 years - absolutely.

Gomer is so infatuated with these clowns that he put all his eggs in their very porous basket.

What has Brayden Schenn done to deserve being on the first line and what has Luke, aka Lukenstein, done to deserve top 4 time - he's a slow sieve back there who is an odd man rush or penalty waiting to happen.

[doom88]

As for the Schenns setting us back 5 years - absolutely.

Gomer is so infatuated with these clowns that he put all his eggs in their very porous basket.

What has Brayden Schenn done to deserve being on the first line and what has Luke, aka Lukenstein, done to deserve top 4 time - he's a slow sieve back there who is an odd man rush or penalty waiting to happen.

RonJeremy?

[aziz]

We lose way too many puck battles.

i see way more missed passes, sloppy stick handles, and guys not knowing where the other guys are gonna be. honestly, these games are being lost in open ice, not along the boards in the offensive zone. i do see what you are saying, and i would like to see more edge to the team...but that's about preference as a fan, not what would change things on the scoreboard. what changes it -if we're going to be uselessly broad- is better situational awareness, better understanding of what everyone's coverage is, and better execution with the puck. bigger forechecking hits won't stop timonen from bobbling passes at the point, won't fix blown neutral zone assignments, won't make it so cross ice passes actually go to a player. the basics have to be taken care of first, then you can start working on style.

[Podein25]

i see way more missed passes, sloppy stick handles, and guys not knowing where the other guys are gonna be. honestly, these games are being lost in open ice, not along the boards in the offensive zone.

Exactly exact. I was gonna say, for a finesse team, we sure suck at the basics of finesse. Like passing. Our play in the neutral zone in the first 3 games could easily be patented as an instructional video on how not to play the game of hockey.

[doom88]

Exactly exact. I was gonna say, for a finesse team, we sure suck at the basics of finesse. Like passing. Our play in the neutral zone in the first 3 games could easily be patented as an instructional video on how not to play the game of hockey.

Precisely precise Pods. Now, how much do you blame the lockout and one week of camp? I don't, since they are fundamentals, and the Flyers did this crap at times last season too. Thoughts?

[Podein25]

how much do you blame the lockout and one week of camp?

I don't at all. It's my understanding, and I may be wrong, that the Flyers had more players playing in Europe and the AHL than any other team (like 15-16 guys or something). I've heard it/read it more than once, including on the telecast of our first game vs PIT. So I'm taking it as true. Which makes this all the more appalling.

What really bugs me, and this is a point raised by many others on here, is that they look exactly like they did last year. Absolutely horrific passing and the inability to handle a pass on the rare occasion when it is on the tape. It's actually unbelievable to me that pro hockey players could suck that much at the basics, but there it is, in all it's horrific orange and black glory, on every ******* shift.

At some point the coaching staff has to be held accountable for this crap.

[Bertmega]

Another thing I picked up on is these guys, for the most part, are reaching hard with their sticks to get at the puck. Instead of moving their feet they are over extending. This tells me that they are being especially lazy in their game play. At points of the Jersey game, I honestly thought I was watching a beer league game.

No hustle in the neutral zone what so ever. Passing is pathetic, borderline brutal. And they are either all trying to swarm the puck in the defensive zone (hence the NJ breakdown on goal #1), or they are playing musical chairs with the puck (meaning nobody wants to be the guy with the puck) hence they are forcing the pass.

And @Podein25 the Flyers had 17 player either in Europe or the AHL during the lockout. Sad that they are acting like a squad that never played the game.

Maybe Lavy should take them to a local rink and have them play in an Instructional League so they can harness the fundamentals again, or option B skate them till they meet Mr. Puke.

[Podein25]

Maybe Lavy should take them to a local rink and have them play in an Instructional League so they can harness the fundamentals again, or option B skate them till they meet Mr. Puke.

I think this should be done to address the former problem of apparent laziness/lack of urgency (lots of reaching).

But I think they should just practice passing all day. I would literally treat them as if they were 10 years old and humiliate them with simple drills for beginners. Imagine getting paid millions and you can't make a 3-foot pass! Embarrassing doesn't begin to describe it. And we saw vs NJ what a difference it makes. There was one shift in the 2nd period where we had the puck in their end for an extended period, even changing lines, got some chances. And if you look back, it was entirely due to a good outlet pass.

And in case anybody wonders if we miss Carle, we do. That guy can pass a puck. He's worth $20M right now or more because right now we have nobody that can do it.

[aziz]

And in case anybody wonders if we miss Carle, we do. That guy can pass a puck. He's worth $20M right now or more because right now we have nobody that can do it.

and he has the same number of points as the entire flyers d-corps at this point.

only get to say things like that 3 games into the season, but yes, i think this team really misses him. big big mistake letting him walk.

[Podein25]

@aziz

Yeah Homer screwed that one up royally. He comes out and says he has a verbal agreement, or whatever, and then clearly (to me at least), altered the equation after he didn't like where the market for mobile, puck-moving D-men was.

It would be nice if players were more loyal and took "hometown discounts" but we don't live in that fantasy world; we live in the world of money, agents and power.

[aziz]

@Podein25

arguably worse, i think what happened is holmgren put carle on pause while he tried to do the weber thing, with carle as his fallback if it fell through. carle said, "yeah, screw that noise" and moved on, leaving holmgren with nadda once weber stayed put. went big, ended up with bruno gervais.

[Podein25]

@aziz

Yeah, you're prolly right. If it went like that, then I don't blame Carle for leaving. Being treated like chopped liver like that after Homer publicly stated that a verbal agreement was in place is not cool.

I'm very cognizant of the fact that it's early, but to all the Carle haters, I say, for now at least: "I told you so."