B21 Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 (edited) The only reason we know Pittsburgh tanked to get Lemieux is that they more or less admitted it, and some of the moves were real head scratchers.However, how do we know Edmonton didn't tank on purpose? I don't mean to suggest for one second that the players would ever - not in 1984 and not now - tank on purpose, or tank because they were told to do so. I really don't believe you'd ever get a player, let alone an entire team, to actively try and lose on purpose.That being said, I'm sure that when it gets right down to the wire, and teams are close to the basement, that 1st overall pick looks appealing, so maybe the GM makes some strange moves. The difference is that no one has really been caught lately.I know that if we were close to finishing dead last for Seth Jones (or at least better odds at Seth Jones), I wouldn't be above giving Leaky a few extra starts, giving rookies a little more ice time, etc. Is it unethical? I don't know. Again, it comes down to intent. It seems in the 1984 Pens case, there was clear intent to finish last. But then again, if there is an incentive to finishing last, then why wouldn't you try to achieve it the same way you would try to win home ice advantage for the playoffs when you have a good team?Stop being rational. Not allowed. Edited February 7, 2013 by B21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Stop being rational. Not allowed. LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 @TedZep@VanflyerYes please show us how there was a second time? I'd love to be as enlightened Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 That being said, I'm sure that when it gets right down to the wire, and teams are close to the basement, that 1st overall pick looks appealing, so maybe the GM makes some strange moves. The difference is that no one has really been caught lately.And thus the lottery came to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TedZep Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 @B21@Polaris922Just because they didn't admit it the second time, like they did the first, doesn't mean it didn't happen. It takes more than bad luck in this league to suck so bad for so long, it takes commitment.Because of the Penguins' chicanery, the NHL implemented the lottery. Which screwed the Flyers the only time they "earned" the number one pick in the draft, and they had to pick van Riemsdyk rather than Kane (both of whom have twice as many goals as any Flyer this young season.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 @B21@Polaris922Just because they didn't admit it the second time, like they did the first, doesn't mean it didn't happen. It takes more than bad luck in this league to suck so bad for so long, it takes commitment.Because of the Penguins' chicanery, the NHL implemented the lottery. Which screwed the Flyers the only time they "earned" the number one pick in the draft, and they had to pick van Riemsdyk rather than Kane (both of whom have twice as many goals as any Flyer this young season.)Why would they admit to something they clearly didn't do? We're asking what you're basing the allegation on, not whether anyone admitted to it. How exactly did they tank? @B21 posted an excellent summary of exactly why they did NOT tank, and you're refuting it without any facts or examples. That's why we're asking?I love that Flyers fans hate my Pens. I LOVE that you guys hate Crosby, Malkin, et.al. ... But if you're going to accuse our organization of tanking at least have something to point too besides that a previous management group under previous ownership did it no less than 15 years prior... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 @TedZep<<< Just because they didn't admit it the second time, like they did the first, doesn't mean it didn't happen. It takes more than bad luck in this league to suck so bad for so long, it takes commitment. >>>The Toronto Maple Leafs, Columbus Blue Jackets and New York Islanders would disagree.That evidence you presented is over-fuggin-whelming, Ted.You're entitled to your opinion however wrong it is but teams that go 10-4-3 in their last 17 games aren't tanking. Teams that sign several big name free agents in the offseason and spend to the cap aren't tanking. Teams playing one of the greatest players of all time (when they have every reason to sit him) aren't tanking. Teams who can't play their 1st round picks for several years due to financial constraints or immigration issues....yup...aren't tanking.I gave you lots of facts. You gave me "....well it happened before." (The White Sox threw the WS in 1919. Guess it could happen again, eh?)Sorry - not good enough. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TedZep Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 (edited) @B21@Polaris922As others pointed out, the Pens did it yet again so they could face the slumping Senators. Face it, tanking is endemic with the Penguins franchise. As is the reputation for diving, almost as if it's coached. No soul, no heart, no ethics. Edited February 8, 2013 by TedZep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 @B21@Polaris922As others pointed out, the Pens did it yet again so they could face the slumping Senators. Face it, tanking is endemic with the Penguins franchise. As is the reputation for diving, almost as if it's coached. No soul, no heart, no ethics.That's the problem... "As others pointed out" didn't happen. Others may have accused as you have, but have yet to back it up with any evidence. I don't see where resting Crosby one game before the playoffs in an unimportant game is tanking. Do you realize how many teams rest their superstars before going into the playoffs? Everyone else played and they played to win. Or are you suggesting 20 professional athletes went out in a game planning to lose? Honestly Ted... if you're going to make such allegations, you have to be ready to back them up. We aren't seeing that from you, and I think it's because you know it's ridiculous to imply that it happened just because it happened decades earlier from an entirely different organization. So my challenge to you is either back it up, or back it off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 @B21@Polaris922As others pointed out, the Pens did it yet again so they could face the slumping Senators. Face it, tanking is endemic with the Penguins franchise. As is the reputation for diving, almost as if it's coached. No soul, no heart, no ethics.If you weren't so hell bent on ripping the franchise out of pure hate (and let's face it - that's all it is) then you might be taken more seriously. Endemic? Really? You realize one of hockey's most prolific (there's some hyperbole, eh?) divers...ever...played a big part in those Cups you won so many eons (liking this hyperbole) ago. Bill Barber...ring a bell?Of course, he ended up coaching you for a few years and is now a scouting consultant. So using your twisted rationale...how does it make you feel that your "perfect" franchise has King Diver I out there looking for talent? I mean...he did it before, right? Talk about a diving endemic.As for resting players so that they could play the Senators...are you nuts? Who cares. Totally different scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Wow, all this commotion started by a little wiki post.... Unless someone else started it and I just added fuel to the fire...ha ha! Either way, good to see a bit of hatred minus the name calling part of the equation....all in good fun. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Bill Barber...ring a bell?It sure does. Bill Just Work Hard And Shut Up Barber. What a big mistake that was... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 It sure does. Bill Just Work Hard And Shut Up Barber. What a big mistake that was...Bill just work hard and shut up and dive whenever possible barber? LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Bill just work hard and shut up and dive whenever possible barber? LOL As a player? Oh no doubt... It's funny how people accuse Forsberg of diving and yet are willing to give Barber a complete pass for being possibly the one of the biggest diver the game has ever seen just because he was scoring goals. Truth is he *was* actually a hell of a scorer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 As a player? Oh no doubt... It's funny how people accuse Forsberg of diving and yet are willing to give Barber a complete pass for being possibly the one of the biggest diver the game has ever seen just because he was scoring goals. Truth is he *was* actually a hell of a scorer.I think the simple truth is a lot of talented hockey players know that because they're a bit ahead of the others, they can embellish things along the way and get valuable power play time for the teams. Barber, Forsberg, Crosby... most of the elite talents do it, and with the results it's just smart for their teams. I'm not saying ethical or stand up, but if a guy like Barber or Crosby or whomever can wring an extra power play a game out of it, that adds up to goals, which in turn add up to wins. It's happened since the beginning of the sport, and can be found in every league in the land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 (edited) It sure does. Bill Just Work Hard And Shut Up Barber. What a big mistake that was...What @Polaris922 said. Crosby is a hellavu scorer, too...doesn't give him a pass apparently. Edited February 9, 2013 by B21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 @jammer2<<< Either way, good to see a bit of hatred minus the name calling part of the equation....all in good fun. >>>Stupidhead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaineFlyFan Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Penguins SUCK!(This thread needed that..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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