Broad Street Bullies, Carbomb, and Bias

[canoli]

oh yeah Polaris is right - it can get a *whole* lot worse. I don't know that there's any "Flyers bias" anymore but there is certainly a Rinaldo bias. Jeez that call last night was ... pathetic. Reputation call and that's it.

But I don't think there's any malicious, "we're gonna get 'em" mentality with the officials. I think they honestly do the best they can do, but OTOH they're human like everyone else so they have their faults. They want to please their superiors, they want to keep their jobs..etc. So the league has an unspoken (or directive) to call more head shots, more boarding, more what they consider dangerous plays. A guy like Rinaldo or Torres becomes an immediate target.

Before Flyers' fan go crazy I'm not suggesting Zac = Raffi, I'm only saying there are some obvious targets in the NHL. Some rightfully so like Torres, some not so much like Rinaldo. And some are like Franzen who apparently can do no wrong...

[B21]

@canoli

How can you say that Rinaldo's reputation is not earned? For every big legal hit (Doughty, Volchenkov, Ennis) there is a cheap & dirty play to go along with it.

What about his elbow to the the head Bortuzzo in late 2011? No suspension. How about the head shot on T.J. Galiardi? No suspension. What about when he kicked Ryan Carter? Nothing. Or the sucker punch on Mihalek? Not even a fine. Low bridge on Zubrus' knee? Zip.

All cheap shots. All penalized during the game except for the Carter kick. None resulting in additional discipline. Yet these are the exact same kind of incidents that, when a Flyer falls victim to them or a Penguin happens to be on the giving end, heads must roll...and if they do not it's another example of the league's bias towards the Flyers.

Rinaldo has a nack for the big booming legal hit. He also has his fair share of cheap shots. All that I mentioned (and probably a few more) in 70 regular season and 7 playoff games. No to mention a suspension and a couple of fines. At the end of the day the he more than fits the bill of the kind of player who officials are going to keep an eye on.

[BearOnIce]

And next time we play Washington, dress Shelley and Sestito and let them wreak havoc. Might as well put them in, it's not like they're going to take away a spot from someone who's lighting it up. Oh, and dress Rinaldo too. Punish Erskine for that dirty hit.

OH1FlyersFan:

Do you remember that game in Ottawa, I think it was, a few years ago? Over 100 minutes in penalties. Yes, that was pre-Crosby when the league still had a set. Maybe what this team needs is an all out Donnybrook to get this evil and bile "can't-play-hockey" virus out of their collective systems.

Don't worry, Ed has the money for this kind of thing.

Flyer's Hockey boys.

BOI.

[BearOnIce]

This team looks horrible. Didn't like Foster being signed and I hate it even more now. Cut him and now. You can put him in a phone booth with someone and they wouldn't get touched

twpguy:

Insert Knuble, there still will be room to play foosball easily in that phone booth.

BOI

[ZeZel25]

twpguy:

Insert Knuble, there still will be room to play foosball easily in that phone booth.

BOI

I like Mike but yeah i agree.

[canoli]

@Polaris922

I won't try to answer those hits one-by-one. You have a better memory than me obviously and I'm too lazy to youtube the hits. But I remember the "sucker punch" you call the hit on Michalek - if you mean the one last year in the POs. Oh please. Behind your net? That one? He got a 5-min major for that and it was totally unwarranted.

the rest I really don't remember. But Zac is not known as a cheap-shot artist by any stretch of the imagination. Not the way say...oh I dunno let me pick a guy at random...how about Chris Letang before he settled down somewhat last year?

I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder...

[edit: okay I youtubed the Bortuzzo hit. Another big yawn from me. You're joking right? btw he *did* go to the box for that hit too. I hear your completely fair and balanced Pens' announcer talking about the "chicken wing elbow" flying from Rinaldo but boy oh boy...if that's what passes for a "cheap shot" in your book you may wanna play badminton from now on. sorry but that was - okay I'll call it *slightly* over-the-edge. A bit late, a bit high. But goodness man it was nowhere near approaching what Erskine did last night to Simmonds]

Edited February 2, 2013 by canoli

[BearOnIce]

I like Mike but yeah i agree.

With all respect, we all like Mike a lot but I mean are we at that point? This is plain and simple a rebuilding. Call it for what it is. Last year fooled us into thinking we were further along. I hope that I am proven wrong but I suspect not.

[doom88]

@canoli

How can you say that Rinaldo's reputation is not earned? For every big legal hit (Doughty, Volchenkov, Ennis) there is a cheap & dirty play to go along with it.

What about his elbow to the the head Bortuzzo in late 2011? No suspension. How about the head shot on T.J. Galiardi? No suspension. What about when he kicked Ryan Carter? Nothing. Or the sucker punch on Mihalek? Not even a fine. Low bridge on Zubrus' knee? Zip.

All cheap shots. All penalized during the game except for the Carter kick. None resulting in additional discipline. Yet these are the exact same kind of incidents that, when a Flyer falls victim to them or a Penguin happens to be on the giving end, heads must roll...and if they do not it's another example of the league's bias towards the Flyers.

Rinaldo has a nack for the big booming legal hit. He also has his fair share of cheap shots. All that I mentioned (and probably a few more) in 70 regular season and 7 playoff games. No to mention a suspension and a couple of fines. At the end of the day the he more than fits the bill of the kind of player who officials are going to keep an eye on.

If Cooke can turn into a saint, why can't Rinaldo clean up his image?

[B21]

@Polaris922

I won't try to answer those hits one-by-one. You have a better memory than me obviously and I'm too lazy to youtube the hits. But I remember the "sucker punch" you call the hit on Michalek - if you mean the one last year in the POs. Oh please. Behind your net? That one? He got a 5-min major for that and it was totally unwarranted.

the rest I really don't remember. But Zac is not known as a cheap-shot artist by any stretch of the imagination. Not the way say...oh I dunno let me pick a guy at random...how about Chris Letang before he settled down somewhat last year?

I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder...

[edit: okay I youtubed the Bortuzzo hit. Another big yawn from me. You're joking right? btw he *did* go to the box for that hit too. I hear your completely fair and balanced Pens' announcer talking about the "chicken wing elbow" flying from Rinaldo but boy oh boy...if that's what passes for a "cheap shot" in your book you may wanna play badminton from now on. sorry but that was - okay I'll call it *slightly* over-the-edge. A bit late, a bit high. But goodness man it was nowhere near approaching what Erskine did last night to Simmonds]

Like I said, he was penalized for most of those. My point was two-fold.

1) Penalized or not - they are still dirty and there are enough of them in Rinaldo's VERY brief time in the NHL for him to have earned a well-deserved reputation.

2) A few of those incidents are oddly similar to incidents where a good number of posters were calling for a Penguin to be suspended. The hit on Galiardi looks a helluva lot like Cooke on Savard. The elbow on Bortuzzo (and if you watch the same clip I did there is a 2nd view at the end where here CLERLY comes up with the elbow to the head as he skates by) looks a lot like the elbows Malkin gets killed for throwing. The sucker punch to Mihalek was just that. Guy is on he knees (due to a Rinaldo cross check) and he gives him a two handed punch right to the face. Way late and very high. What about the kick? Your kidding if you don't see that as a complete and utter gutless play. (Side note...not meant to compare anything to Erskine. I agree that's a 2-3 gamer.) And don't forget the Zubrus "hit"...Rinaldo clearly was going for the knee. Again, another example of an incident where if the Flyer is on the receiving end or a Penguin on the giving end, it's bias if there is no suspension (or if the Flyer is suspended).

[B21]

If Cooke can turn into a saint, why can't Rinaldo clean up his image?

Of course he can. Let me know when he starts.

[canoli]

Cooke is no saint - no matter what (btw I said "Letang" but I was thinking "Cooke," though Letang has had his share of questionable hits. And Zac - yes he's made some borderline plays but most if not all of them are the kind where you need to slow the film down to frame-by-frame analysis and say "See he obviously threw an elbow late."

[doom88]

Of course he can. Let me know when he starts.

January 2013, until he shows otherwise. If.

[Polaris922]

@Polaris922

I won't try to answer those hits one-by-one. You have a better memory than me obviously and I'm too lazy to youtube the hits. But I remember the "sucker punch" you call the hit on Michalek - if you mean the one last year in the POs. Oh please. Behind your net? That one? He got a 5-min major for that and it was totally unwarranted.

the rest I really don't remember. But Zac is not known as a cheap-shot artist by any stretch of the imagination. Not the way say...oh I dunno let me pick a guy at random...how about Chris Letang before he settled down somewhat last year?

I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder...

[edit: okay I youtubed the Bortuzzo hit. Another big yawn from me. You're joking right? btw he *did* go to the box for that hit too. I hear your completely fair and balanced Pens' announcer talking about the "chicken wing elbow" flying from Rinaldo but boy oh boy...if that's what passes for a "cheap shot" in your book you may wanna play badminton from now on. sorry but that was - okay I'll call it *slightly* over-the-edge. A bit late, a bit high. But goodness man it was nowhere near approaching what Erskine did last night to Simmonds]

You're answering B21 not me... But I agree with his point. Rinaldo is a douchebag. Lol

[B21]

Cooke is no saint - no matter what (btw I said "Letang" but I was thinking "Cooke," though Letang has had his share of questionable hits. And Zac - yes he's made some borderline plays but most if not all of them are the kind where you need to slow the film down to frame-by-frame analysis and say "See he obviously threw an elbow late."

Take a break, man. You were responding to me post but to @Polaris922 + mistaking Letang for Cooke. (Just breaking balls...I knew what you were getting at).

Letang has has a handful...and has been suspended. And I didn't have to go frame by frame on any hit I mentioned for Rinaldo. I DID have to go frame by frame to make sure the hits on Doughty, Volchenkov and Ennis were clean.

Rinaldo LOVES to come in with speed at a vulnerable player, get low and then come up high. Look at a lot of his hits...even the clean ones. If he's not leaving his skates before the hit he's off them in the process of making contact. If he's not hitting the head he's certainly close. A few times he's kept the hit clean (again...Doughty, Ennis and Volchenkov). Sometimes not (Ericsson). I'm betting he gets caught again.

Edited February 3, 2013 by B21

[doom88]

@B21

So Rinaldo hits like Kronwall?

[B21]

@B21

So Rinaldo hits like Kronwall?

"Kronwall Lite"

[ruxpin]

@canoli

How can you say that Rinaldo's reputation is not earned? For every big legal hit (Doughty, Volchenkov, Ennis) there is a cheap & dirty play to go along with it.

What about his elbow to the the head Bortuzzo in late 2011? No suspension. How about the head shot on T.J. Galiardi? No suspension. What about when he kicked Ryan Carter? Nothing. Or the sucker punch on Mihalek? Not even a fine. Low bridge on Zubrus' knee? Zip.

All cheap shots. All penalized during the game except for the Carter kick. None resulting in additional discipline. Yet these are the exact same kind of incidents that, when a Flyer falls victim to them or a Penguin happens to be on the giving end, heads must roll...and if they do not it's another example of the league's bias towards the Flyers.

Rinaldo has a nack for the big booming legal hit. He also has his fair share of cheap shots. All that I mentioned (and probably a few more) in 70 regular season and 7 playoff games. No to mention a suspension and a couple of fines. At the end of the day the he more than fits the bill of the kind of player who officials are going to keep an eye on.

I hear what you're saying, but the Bortuzzo and Mihalek things aren't good examples. I mean, I get the Pitt feed here in North-Central PA and I know their announcers made it sound like he shot them from the 6th floor of a book depository, but they really were hardly anything to think about.

Rinaldo gets the attention he deserves. He plays on the edge (not nearly as on the edge as, say, Steve Downie though) and he runs his mouth a bit. And he's young. It's not because of the logo, it's because of the name on the back of the sweater. He'll have to take the bad with the good, though, because if he changes his game to avoid the dumb calls, he'll take away the part of him that keeps his job. Let's face it, the dude ain't here for scoring, play making ability, or defensive prowess. He's one of my favorite players, but I don't ever expect to see him in an all star game.

[ZeZel25]

@canoli

How can you say that Rinaldo's reputation is not earned? For every big legal hit (Doughty, Volchenkov, Ennis) there is a cheap & dirty play to go along with it.

What about his elbow to the the head Bortuzzo in late 2011? No suspension. How about the head shot on T.J. Galiardi? No suspension. What about when he kicked Ryan Carter? Nothing. Or the sucker punch on Mihalek? Not even a fine. Low bridge on Zubrus' knee? Zip.

All cheap shots. All penalized during the game except for the Carter kick. None resulting in additional discipline. Yet these are the exact same kind of incidents that, when a Flyer falls victim to them or a Penguin happens to be on the giving end, heads must roll...and if they do not it's another example of the league's bias towards the Flyers.

Rinaldo has a nack for the big booming legal hit. He also has his fair share of cheap shots. All that I mentioned (and probably a few more) in 70 regular season and 7 playoff games. No to mention a suspension and a couple of fines. At the end of the day the he more than fits the bill of the kind of player who officials are going to keep an eye on.

A referee's job isnt to investigate a players "reputation", his job is too call whats seen in that game, not what's happened in the past or guessed on, period! Lazy officiating is all it is. If thats the case guy's like Matt Cooke should be in the box every 2 minutes

[ZeZel25]

Didn't see it posted already but Erskin got 3 games.

Every official on the ice should get the same suspension...

[B21]

A referee's job isnt to investigate a players "reputation", his job is too call whats seen in that game, not what's happened in the past or guessed on, period! Lazy officiating is all it is. If thats the case guy's like Matt Cooke should be in the box every 2 minutes

Agree but if there is a "borerline" play a guy like Rinaldo will not...SHOULD NOT...get the benefit of doubt.

There is some irony to a Flyers fan taking issue with one of their players being treated "unfairly" due to his reputation becuase EVERY SINGLE TIME a Flyer is called for a penalty on Crosby, he dove/embellished. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

When I see that BS stop then I'll take the Flyers fan seriously when they feel one of their guys is being treated "unfairly".

[B21]

A referee's job isnt to investigate a players "reputation", his job is too call whats seen in that game, not what's happened in the past or guessed on, period! Lazy officiating is all it is. If thats the case guy's like Matt Cooke should be in the box every 2 minutes

Oh - and a referee does not "investigate" reputations. They know as well as the players and fans what players are known for. Guy's reputations are pretty much out there. Don't make it seem like these guys meet before the games an talk about who they are going to screw over.

[ZeZel25]

Agree but if there is a "borerline" play a guy like Rinaldo will not...SHOULD NOT...get the benefit of doubt.

There is some irony to a Flyers fan taking issue with one of their players being treated "unfairly" due to his reputation becuase EVERY SINGLE TIME a Flyer is called for a penalty on Crosby, he dove/embellished. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

When I see that BS stop then I'll take the Flyers fan seriously when they feel one of their guys is being treated "unfairly".

What a load of crap! I dont care if it's Rinaldo, Cooke or any other player. A refs job is too call what he sees, NOT what he thinks or read about someone! There is no benefit of the doubt, if you didnt see it, dont call it! This goes back on you, how many legit pens fans admit to Crosby being a diver? NONE that I talk too, and I use to live in Pittsburgh so dont give me that. Of course Rinaldo has had issues, but how many in the pros can you name? Not many to have this "Reputation" thats media created. Just call whats on the ice and forget the B.S. of what's heard round the league.

[brelic]

Agree but if there is a "borerline" play a guy like Rinaldo will not...SHOULD NOT...get the benefit of doubt.

There is some irony to a Flyers fan taking issue with one of their players being treated "unfairly" due to his reputation becuase EVERY SINGLE TIME a Flyer is called for a penalty on Crosby, he dove/embellished. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

When I see that BS stop then I'll take the Flyers fan seriously when they feel one of their guys is being treated "unfairly".

And when Crosby quits whining to the refs like a little bitch EVERY SINGLE TIME, we'll take Pens fans seriously too.

Hyperbole is easy, see?

[ZeZel25]

Oh - and a referee does not "investigate" reputations. They know as well as the players and fans what players are known for. Guy's reputations are pretty much out there. Don't make it seem like these guys meet before the games an talk about who they are going to screw over.

If you're going to TRY and sit there and tell me that Ref's don't talk about who they need to "WATCH" in a game, i.e. the rinaldo's or Matt Cooke's, than you don't know hockey.

[B21]

I hear what you're saying, but the Bortuzzo and Mihalek things aren't good examples. I mean, I get the Pitt feed here in North-Central PA and I know their announcers made it sound like he shot them from the 6th floor of a book depository, but they really were hardly anything to think about.

Rinaldo gets the attention he deserves. He plays on the edge (not nearly as on the edge as, say, Steve Downie though) and he runs his mouth a bit. And he's young. It's not because of the logo, it's because of the name on the back of the sweater. He'll have to take the bad with the good, though, because if he changes his game to avoid the dumb calls, he'll take away the part of him that keeps his job. Let's face it, the dude ain't here for scoring, play making ability, or defensive prowess. He's one of my favorite players, but I don't ever expect to see him in an all star game.

Not all are good examples of something a player should be suspended for but I've seen the cries for Malkin to get suspended for his elbows...exactly the kind Rinaldo threw (and again, that's the only one I found). The original point was poor Zac Rinaldo was being treated "unfairly" yet here is a Flyer NOT being suspended for something Flyers fan think Malkin SHOULD be suspended for. Just like Rinaldo's hit on Galiardi is practically a carbon copy of Cooke's his on Savard. You saw what was said of Cooke. So why did nothing happen to Rinaldo who is allegedly targeted by the NHL? What about the kick? What about aking out Zubrus' knee? All cheap. You pull that kind of thing and you will get a reputation as a dirty player regardless of what penalties and suspensions were/were not handed out.

Agree 100% with everything else you said.