The Real Jonathan Bernier Thread

[brelic]

Found this article about Bernier. I know there's been a lot of talk from Flyers fans over the years about Bernier, and it would be have been perfect if we could have snagged him in the Richards trade, but we had our eggs in the Bobrovsky basket.

For what it's worth, hockeysfuture.com has him as an 8.0, which projects to a no. 1 goaltender along the lines of Cam Ward, M-A Fleury, and Vokoun. So, not elite level, but could still achieve all-star status.

And the very last bit in the article about Lamoriello inquiring about Bernier to replace Brodeur made me sick. The last thing I wanna see is another Devils franchise goaltender that will haunt us for 15+ years.

Make it happen, Homer.

What would you be willing to trade for Bernier? Send them Kimmo+ to help out on D, and call it a season?

http://www.truehockey.com/articles/Bernier-Still-Hoping-to-Be-Traded

While all the focus is on the drama up in Vancouver, there’s another goaltender hoping to be traded in the very near future.

Following the Kings run to the Stanley Cup last spring, former first round pick Jonathan Bernier asked to be traded. GM Dean Lombardi spoke to several teams regarding Bernier, but the combination of not getting what he wanted along with Jonathan Quick’s back injury, led to the team putting a Bernier trade on the back burner.

For now Bernier is in a holding pattern, at least until Luongo gets moved. Sources close to Bernier tell me they believe he will eventually be traded but it’s unlikely to happen until after the Vancouver situation is resolved. Many believe Canucks GM Mike Gillis will trade Luongo sooner than later. Then again with the way Luongo is playing he might be better off keeping him for the time being.

With injuries to Matt Greene and Willie Mitchell word is Lombardi is searching for a top four D-man. He went after Wade Redden before the Blues ******ed him up and you won’t find find too many teams willing to give up a top 4 D-man right now.

Los Angeles is almost exclusively relying on Drew Doughty and Rob Scuderi on a nightly basis.

Lombardi has indicated to Bernier’s camp that he will give him a chance to play elsewhere. There is a sentimental attachment here as Bernier was the first draft pick Lombardi made as Kings GM in 2006. Still with that said, Bernier is the Kings only real major asset they’re willing to part with.

The Toronto maple leafs are certainly an option should they fail to land Luongo in a trade. Lombardi has indicated privately there’s a specific player on the Maple Leafs roster he wants in return for Bernier. While he won’t reveal who the player is, it’s safe to suggest Toronto isn’t willing to part with him, at least for now.

Other teams such as Tampa Bay, Columbus, and New Jersey have kicked the tires on Bernier at one time or another. New Jersey GM Lou Lamiorello would love to get his hands on Bernier with the idea of replacing Martin Brodeur in a few years. The Devils ended up signing both Brodeur and Johan Hedberg to two-year deals last summer.

Bernier is a restricted free agent at the end of this season.

I’ll have more on the Blues later today.

More to come,

Andy Strickland

Strickland.andy@gmail.com

[Lindbergh31]

Found this article about Bernier. I know there's been a lot of talk from Flyers fans over the years about Bernier, and it would be have been perfect if we could have snagged him in the Richards trade, but we had our eggs in the Bobrovsky basket.

For what it's worth, hockeysfuture.com has him as an 8.0, which projects to a no. 1 goaltender along the lines of Cam Ward, M-A Fleury, and Vokoun. So, not elite level, but could still achieve all-star status.

And the very last bit in the article about Lamoriello inquiring about Bernier to replace Brodeur made me sick. The last thing I wanna see is another Devils franchise goaltender that will haunt us for 15+ years.

Make it happen, Homer.

What would you be willing to trade for Bernier? Send them Kimmo+ to help out on D, and call it a season?

http://www.truehocke...ng-to-Be-Traded

While all the focus is on the drama up in Vancouver, there’s another goaltender hoping to be traded in the very near future.

Following the Kings run to the Stanley Cup last spring, former first round pick Jonathan Bernier asked to be traded. GM Dean Lombardi spoke to several teams regarding Bernier, but the combination of not getting what he wanted along with Jonathan Quick’s back injury, led to the team putting a Bernier trade on the back burner.

For now Bernier is in a holding pattern, at least until Luongo gets moved. Sources close to Bernier tell me they believe he will eventually be traded but it’s unlikely to happen until after the Vancouver situation is resolved. Many believe Canucks GM Mike Gillis will trade Luongo sooner than later. Then again with the way Luongo is playing he might be better off keeping him for the time being.

With injuries to Matt Greene and Willie Mitchell word is Lombardi is searching for a top four D-man. He went after Wade Redden before the Blues ******ed him up and you won’t find find too many teams willing to give up a top 4 D-man right now.

Los Angeles is almost exclusively relying on Drew Doughty and Rob Scuderi on a nightly basis.

Lombardi has indicated to Bernier’s camp that he will give him a chance to play elsewhere. There is a sentimental attachment here as Bernier was the first draft pick Lombardi made as Kings GM in 2006. Still with that said, Bernier is the Kings only real major asset they’re willing to part with.

The Toronto maple leafs are certainly an option should they fail to land Luongo in a trade. Lombardi has indicated privately there’s a specific player on the Maple Leafs roster he wants in return for Bernier. While he won’t reveal who the player is, it’s safe to suggest Toronto isn’t willing to part with him, at least for now.

Other teams such as Tampa Bay, Columbus, and New Jersey have kicked the tires on Bernier at one time or another. New Jersey GM Lou Lamiorello would love to get his hands on Bernier with the idea of replacing Martin Brodeur in a few years. The Devils ended up signing both Brodeur and Johan Hedberg to two-year deals last summer.

Bernier is a restricted free agent at the end of this season.

I’ll have more on the Blues later today.

More to come,

Andy Strickland

Strickland.andy@gmail.com

Getting Bernier would be good for the Flyers, it would be nice to get him this year so he could play and then they could buyout Bryzgalov this coming summer. That way they'd have a young goalie to go with the young group of players going forward. Question is what would LA want for him, if it was Timonen and draft pick Holmgren would have to consider it.

[radoran]

Timonen would need to approve any deal...

I'm not at all opposed to Bernier. I have a sneaking suspicion the "organization"* is going to warm to Bryzgalov...

* I use this term loosely

[canoli]

I have a sneaking suspicion the "organization"* is going to warm to Bryzgalov...

Oh I'm quite sure the organization, a.k.a. Ed and PL are already sufficiently warm to him. Every save he makes is vindication that they were right to sign him. It'll be interesting to see what the Flyers do with him...the buyout option is a dream come true for Mr Ed (and me too! but if Bryzgalov makes it through the year with a solid Save% (>= .920) I bet they don't use it.

It seems to me the bar is set low for Bryzgalov despite his franchise-goalie contract. That's just my impression of course but I get the feeling he'll have to look bad for long stretches - like last year - to get the heave-ho.

[AndyS]

Homer should make this deal happen. Bernier is a franchise goalie just waiting to happen.

And we could call him "Bernie!"

P.S. If the Devils get him, that would be a disaster.

[AndyS]

There are only 3 players on the Flyers roster that I would say are untouchable in a potential trade for Bernier.

Giroux, Brayden Schenn, and Coutourier. That's it.

[brelic]

Oh I'm quite sure the organization, a.k.a. Ed and PL are already sufficiently warm to him. Every save he makes is vindication that they were right to sign him. It'll be interesting to see what the Flyers do with him...the buyout option is a dream come true for Mr Ed (and me too! but if Bryzgalov makes it through the year with a solid Save% (>= .920) I bet they don't use it.

It seems to me the bar is set low for Bryzgalov despite his franchise-goalie contract. That's just my impression of course but I get the feeling he'll have to look bad for long stretches - like last year - to get the heave-ho.

But if his save % is over .920, it's a good thing. It's actually a great thing. The fact that we have next year to evaluate him as well (and use a buyout if we wanted after next season) is just icing on the cake. If Bryz performs 'as advertised' this year and next year, then there's no problem.

And if Bryz is playing well, I think there's almost zero chance Homer goes after a guy like Bernier. He'll focus on defense or scoring help up front. Betcha any money he's interested in Iginla. He can be our new Oates

[canoli]

No no I know...of course, if he's putting up a consistent .930 (see what I did there? ) then fine, great, he stays - and most of us will be happy. And I know you're right about Bernier too; Brzygalov IS our goaltender, period, and Homer [apparently, going by how Bob was treated] [edit: and the hiring of Leighton] doesn't want anybody near him who can possibly compete for the job.

But that's why I think he should be bought out regardless - we should have better options than one overpaid, under-talented 31-year old and a career backup whose claim to fame is blowing the best chance we had to win a Stanley Cup (usual disclaimers apply, i.e. "it wasn't all his fault" - merely 99% his fault - and he did have a glorious run went Boosh went down so he gets credit for getting us to G6...but good lord not enough to warrant a 2nd stint with the Flyers imho). //end ML rant

Obviously if Bryzgalov is playing like Marty Brodeur consistently then keep him by all means. But who the hell really expects that to happen?

[edit #2 - I guess the answer is: "Ed Snider"]

Edited February 1, 2013 by canoli

[BearOnIce]

Timonen would need to approve any deal...

I'm not at all opposed to Bernier. I have a sneaking suspicion the "organization"* is going to warm to Bryzgalov...

* I use this term loosely

radoran:

I suspect that when the Flyers get to 6W/17L, and Bryz does a Checkomanic-melt down on the ice with his teammates, then starts talking about White Tigers and going to Uranus in his personal spacecraft, in the locker room, that the "organization" will have no other choice but to accept the buyout, but with the usual Flyer aplumb and spin.

I think this year is going to be a mess.

BOI

[radoran]

radoran:

I suspect that when the Flyers get to 6W/17L, and Bryz does a Checkomanic-melt down on the ice with his teammates, then starts talking about White Tigers and going to Uranus in his personal spacecraft, in the locker room, that the "organization" will have no other choice but to accept the buyout, but with the usual Flyer aplumb and spin.

I think this year is going to be a mess.

BOI

I fully expect a buytout, but this organization* has done stupider things.

If bryz is putting up 2.19/.924 and the team is 6-17 then it's the team having the breakdown, just as it was with Cechmanek.

Naturally, they will blame the goalie and keep all the players who quit, just as it was with Cechmanek.

* term used loosely

[cochrane29]

Don't think Kimmo + gets you Bernier (unless the plus includes a number 1 pick and/or highly regarded prospect). Bernier is highly regarded despite his limited playing time behind Quick. I think there will be a number of teams in the hunt for him and that will drive up the bidding. However, if Kimmo was willing to waive his NT clause I wouldn't mind trying to pry Ben Bishop out of Ottawa for him. With Craig Anderson cemented as #1 and with Robin Lehner in the system, maybe you can get Bishop...assuming the Flyers buy out Bryz at season's end.

[Vanflyer]

but we had our eggs in the Bobrovsky basket.

Bryzgalov basket. Fixed it for you.

Truthfully, I would just try and sign him to an offer sheet and keep the extortion that Lombardi will try and extract. Holmgren and Co. certainly did not do their due-diligence on the Richards trade. Had they known that LA was interested in Richards, it should have been before the Breezy trade / deal and the Richards trade should have been for Bernier and maybe simmonds (a pick may have had to go to LA as well).

[radoran]

Truthfully, I would just try and sign him to an offer sheet and keep the extortion that Lombardi will try and extract. Holmgren and Co. certainly did not do their due-diligence on the Richards trade. Had they known that LA was interested in Richards, it should have been before the Breezy trade / deal and the Richards trade should have been for Bernier and maybe simmonds (a pick may have had to go to LA as well).

I really don't know where to begin in the litany of ridiculous decisions that this organization* has made, especially over the past 15 years.

I still date the Beginning of the End to the first firing of Terry Murray, the turning over the keys to the asylum to the inmates and then having a legend of the Broad Street Bullies in a war of sorts with Lindros' mom.

It scares me that that was 15 years ago.

Most recently, they did all their research and did all their planning and based it upon two players that they drafted in the same year, brought up the same way, taught the same system for years, gave one the Captaincy and called him the Clarke of the future, got to the Stanley Cup Finals and...

blew the team up to build on a new foundation of a Russian goaltender who had once been a Vezina contender with a bad Phoenix team and a 35 year old defenseman on a contract that was evident he would play at best 3-4 years, cap hits be darned.

They also brought in what I believe is a talented young core of players who can all build and grow together. Giroux (let's leave the C discussion aside), Simmonds, Voracek, Schenn. There are glaring exceptions like, for example, defense. Even so, one would have to say that - having lost Pronger - the defense this year isn't "on paper" better than the one last January.

But, they also took a few steps backwards in developing a cohesive winning franchise. Losing Pronger was devastating, yes.

That said, I have no problem looking at Bernier. I like the idea of the offer sheet. Fergawdsake can we get away from this childish "gentlemen's agreement" not to take advantage of the options available to them under the rules? That's called "collusion" where I come from.

If you take away his 4.03 in 4 games during a Junior audition with a woeful Kings squad, his numbers are right aroUnd 2.19/.924

We could only dream.

* term used loosely

[Vanflyer]

Fergawdsake can we get away from this childish "gentlemen's agreement" not to take advantage of the options available to them under the rules? That's called "collusion" where I come from.

I agree. I would be interested in seeing what the new compensation rules are for signing RFA's.

[jammer2]

I dunno, I can see LA wanting young stars for their potential young star. Sure, Kimmo would be a great (actually pefect) additon to that team in their quest for back to backs.....but Lombardi is a smart dude, he knows he can get sure fire can't miss prospects for Bernier. Not the whole farm, but the barn and part of the crops kinda take. Imagine dealing for Kimmo for the stretch run, and he gets hurt before the playoffs even start....which is entirely possible the way Kimmo's body is breaking down....not a very good return for your highly thought of young tender.

I see Coburn as a viable option for LA....you know what you are getting a nice skater, for the most part dependalbe in his own end, can eat up valuable minutes, a playoff tested veteran, still in his prime....and they would not require him to contribute any offense, they have other guys for that role. The big thintg for LA here would be that it's not a stop gap measure, they get a vet who will contribute for years to come....Maybe Coburn and Cousins gets it done (heard he is good at that.....ha ha!).

Now, what does this do to the already in shambles Flyers defense....it makes it like a expansiion team...well almost. My reply to that is....let the rebuild begin!! At least you have the goalie of the future secure....BUILD FROM THE NET ON OUT!!

And....the thought of Bernier replacing Brodeur in NJ is just to much to bear!! I may be sick just thinking about that!! NOOOOOOO!!!

EDIT...the thing you have to remember is there will be a bidding war, if Toronto is in the mix, the Kings would want a package centered around Kadri and or Frattin (this kid is looking wicked good if you have not seen him)....I suspect the Leafs would thumb a nose up at the Kadri proposal, but Frattin may be in the mix for such a good young tender.....PLUS, the Leafs have a TON of D=men, of which Gunnerson would be a nice fit, or the youngster Blacker whose way is blocked by the NHL guys ahead of him.

[brelic]

But that's why I think he should be bought out regardless - we should have better options than one overpaid, under-talented 31-year old

Obviously if Bryzgalov is playing like Marty Brodeur consistently then keep him by all means. But who the hell really expects that to happen?

Forget Brodeur... that's never going to happen. I'd be happy if Bryzgalov can consistently play like Bryzgalov, and do so for the better part of his contract. If he plays in the 2.20-2.40 range, and .910+ range for, say, the next 4 years, then we got what we paid for and can stop looking for a goaltender. After 4 years, he'll have 4 years left on his contract, which we can buy out, force a trade, etc. There are always ways to get out of contracts, though now they will stick around a little more to haunt you.

I hear what you're saying about buying him out regardless, but if he plays like Bryzgalov, why would we spend all that money to buy him out, and all those resources to get a goaltender when we already have one? I know, I know, Bernier could be a franchise goalie, but most people here (and I believe Homer included) have taken COuturier off the table and probably B. Schenn too.

Well, I'm sure the conversation for Bernier might start with one of those two, because we have nothing super appealing on defense for them.

I'm not saying I wouldn't do it, but for the organization to do it would be admitting to a colossal failure by signing Bryz, then to giving away the cornerstone of the Carter trade, for an unproven goaltender who is supposed to be the saviour.

Ahh, screw it... get'er done Homer! And bring me the Seth Jones!!!

[BearOnIce]

I fully expect a buytout, but this organization* has done stupider things.

If bryz is putting up 2.19/.924 and the team is 6-17 then it's the team having the breakdown, just as it was with Cechmanek.

Naturally, they will blame the goalie and keep all the players who quit, just as it was with Cechmanek.

* term used loosely

radoran:

I agree.

After last night I am much more concerned about this team than Bryz.

Could it be that what we see is exactly how it was last year except that there was Carle and Jagr, a few people had career years, the young players overexcelled, and we had fewer injuries?

BOI

[canoli]

Could it be that what we see is exactly how it was last year except that there was Carle and Jagr, a few people had career years, the young players overexcelled, and we had fewer injuries?

yep that accounts for what we're seeing so far - well said.

Last year the goaltending was abysmal for much of the season but we were scoring in bunches. Now we're getting solid goaltending but our skaters are all over the place. Physically they're not up to speed and mentally they're a mess. They're blowing assignments right n left and nobody can find the back of the net.

[BearOnIce]

yep that accounts for what we're seeing so far - well said.

Last year the goaltending was abysmal for much of the season but we were scoring in bunches. Now we're getting solid goaltending but our skaters are all over the place. Physically they're not up to speed and mentally they're a mess. They're blowing assignments right n left and nobody can find the back of the net.

Canoli:

Yes, a Dr. Jeckel & Mr. Hyde of a team this year.

Not in shape. Tentative. Holding the sticks too tight. Not trusting each other. Can't pass, shoot or score. Out of synch. Out of focus. Besides that, everything is just great, eh C?

Maybe they just need a little tender mommy love. Not.

BOI

[radoran]

radoran:

I agree.

After last night I am much more concerned about this team than Bryz.

Could it be that what we see is exactly how it was last year except that there was Carle and Jagr, a few people had career years, the young players overexcelled, and we had fewer injuries?

BOI

I think the Flyers took a few steps backwards in terms of team development with the Crater/Richards trades, but upgraded to a more talented overall team. But that new core needs the years and seasons to develop together that, for example, Crater and Richards did.

In many ways, much of the Flyers' experience in knowing what it takes to win in this game gets traded away. Certainly having Richards/Crater/Gagne - all of whom had been to Finals with the Flyers - helped the Kings locker room immensely.

Losing Carle and Jagr - plus JVR - certainly didn't help. I don't know that wholesale turnover of rosters - "reloading not rebuilding" - is an effective way to win a championship.

[BearOnIce]

I think the Flyers took a few steps backwards in terms of team development with the Crater/Richards trades, but upgraded to a more talented overall team. But that new core needs the years and seasons to develop together that, for example, Crater and Richards did.

In many ways, much of the Flyers' experience in knowing what it takes to win in this game gets traded away. Certainly having Richards/Crater/Gagne - all of whom had been to Finals with the Flyers - helped the Kings locker room immensely.

Losing Carle and Jagr - plus JVR - certainly didn't help. I don't know that wholesale turnover of rosters - "reloading not rebuilding" - is an effective way to win a championship.

Rad:

Well said.

The Flyers have gone dramatically backwards in experience level since moving those three. I am not saying it was bad. In fact I think it was right, but there is cause and effect. Then we loose Pronger. That was big. Now this year Jagr (never thought I would be saying it) and Matty Carle. Briere, Knuble, and Talbot are good guys but...

Think it is best if everyone sees it for what it is, a basic rebuilding. I wonder if our GM, management, or ownership sees it that way. I suspect not. Most decisions are based upon getting one old man another ring and that means they are short term.

BOI

[Jmdodgesrt4]

Forget Brodeur... that's never going to happen. I'd be happy if Bryzgalov can consistently play like Bryzgalov, and do so for the better part of his contract. If he plays in the 2.20-2.40 range, and .910+ range for, say, the next 4 years, then we got what we paid for and can stop looking for a goaltender. After 4 years, he'll have 4 years left on his contract, which we can buy out, force a trade, etc. There are always ways to get out of contracts, though now they will stick around a little more to haunt you.

I hear what you're saying about buying him out regardless, but if he plays like Bryzgalov, why would we spend all that money to buy him out, and all those resources to get a goaltender when we already have one? I know, I know, Bernier could be a franchise goalie, but most people here (and I believe Homer included) have taken COuturier off the table and probably B. Schenn too.

Well, I'm sure the conversation for Bernier might start with one of those two, because we have nothing super appealing on defense for them.

I'm not saying I wouldn't do it, but for the organization to do it would be admitting to a colossal failure by signing Bryz, then to giving away the cornerstone of the Carter trade, for an unproven goaltender who is supposed to be the saviour.

Ahh, screw it... get'er done Homer! And bring me the Seth Jones!!!

[Jmdodgesrt4]

Did somebody say Seth jones!?

[Jmdodgesrt4]

I would like to add it would only take one bad year and we would be a series contender again. I still say and will post it non stop, I want Seth jones and Ryan pulock. Period . End of story.

[brelic]

I would like to add it would only take one bad year and we would be a series contender again. I still say and will post it non stop, I want Seth jones and Ryan pulock. Period . End of story.

As much as I would love that we'd have to finish last overall and win the lottery. Remember how that worked out last time? Un-freakin-believable that we happen to finish dead last overall and a) lose out on the top pick, and b) end up picking a dud, and c) finished last in a weak draft year.