Timonen: 1 year, 6 million deal

[radoran]

It may not be "that bad" given the cap situation.

Flyers have 10 forwards, 8 D and a G signed for next season (including Timo) for $62,074,881 on the $64M cap. Pronger opens up $4.9M.

Looking at just under $7M in total space, they would likely re-sign RFAs Sestito and Rinaldo ($1.15M total) to round out the forwards. Laughton would be also be available at $1.1M or so. Johnston $958K.

Would not surprise me to see them buy out Pronger and eliminate the whole LTIR fiasco. Then decide on Bryz after next year when they will need to re-sign BSchenn, Couturier and Giroux as RFAs.

[radoran]

@radoran

Interesting. But what's wrong with keeping your options open successfully?

Are you familiar with how this organization* works?

@Podein25

@radoran

I read that Meltzer piece as well. And I agree that we lost Carle because they waited; however, if you are willing to offer Kimmo, $6 million/year. I would have STRONGLY preferred they overpaid Carle when they had the chance. Granted, you might not make this offer to Kimmo if you have Carle under contract, but to compound a mistake(losing Carle) by making another mistake, is well, just a HUGE mistake, IMO.

I also agree about not having options moving forward. I will bet a bottle of good rum that this deal with include an NMC for Kimmo, so even if they would want to move him next year, they can't. To me, the timing is very odd.

I just put up the cap numbers. It's not entirely apocalyptic.

And, as usually is pointed out when I note a NTC/NMC, what they really mean is that the player has some control over his destiny.

I do think $6M is high, but what were the other options on the horizon?

Heck, they can always buy him out

* term used loosely

[Podein25]

Are you familiar with how this organization* works?

Sadly, I am. But I'm a dreamer.

[AJgoal]

@Rad, they can't buy out an injured player, so Pronger's LTIR game will go on. But 6 million in cap space after resigning Sestito and Rinaldo isn't too bad. That becomes 12 after they buy out Briere.

On a side note, if the Flyers don't add any salary, they can add a 6milion contract at the deadline.

[canoli]

I don't see what's so terrible. Did anyone really expect Kimmo would cost substantially less? The guy is a premier D-man in the league and he's paid like one. Nothing wrong with that.

As far as "lost a step" and therefore he's not worth $6 million...or we should've traded him to a "legit" PO contender at the TD...assuming we're not in the PO race...a trade could've been interesting. I wouldn't bank on KT agreeing to come back though (after his run with a PO contender). Imagine if he goes to the SC winner....or the runner-up...

It's a risky move trading him away and I'm glad we didn't. I figure he's the one real voice of "old school" leadership we have on the back end. He'll be tough to replace when the time comes...no need to rush it.

[radoran]

@Rad, they can't buy out an injured player, so Pronger's LTIR game will go on. But 6 million in cap space after resigning Sestito and Rinaldo isn't too bad. That becomes 12 after they buy out Briere.

On a side note, if the Flyers don't add any salary, they can add a 6milion contract at the deadline.

I wasn't sure how the "compliance buyout" affected the situation. Also, that Pronger isn't on LTIR at the moment and wouldn't be in the off-season. But I concede the point.

I don't think they buy out Briere until they "have to" - whether to re-sign the 3 RFAs or drop a huge offer to a UFA a la Parise/Suter.

[touche22]

I just read that the Flyers now have over $62MM committed to just 19 players next year and he cap will be $64MM. If that's true, then this really IS interesting.

It might have been said later in this thread, but we have to up Giroux dont we? If so, Briere will be bought out and Read might be the odd man out. Defence is our first priority and there just arent too many kicking around

[radoran]

@AndyS

The multi-year deal thing does come into play in what I would consider a pretty large way here.

I believe that Timonen plans to end his career as a Flyer. I believe the organization* actually does intend to have that happen as well. I believe both sides may feel there's two more years in the old dog.

If Timonen signed, as a 35+, a 2-year, $9M deal paying $6M and $3M his cap hit would be $4.5M a year - regardless.

The Flyers - as I showed above - actually do have some cap room next year even with Timonen at $6M. The *next* year, the Flyers need to re-up BSchenn/Couturier/Giroux and having the extra $1.5M on the cap - paying Timonen $3M for his "swan song" (barring a Cup run) might be very important.

Timonen maybe gets a little more this year as insurance against a career-ending injury. May take even less to re-up for a final year. Or retire.

I think the one year deal is important here. And I think it gives both sides flexibility they both wanted.

[caluso]

Timonen is my favorite flyer but there is NO WAY in the world he deserves 6 mil next year. And, as much as I loathe Subban, he's going to receive only 3 mil.

yet another example of Holmgren's incompetence.

note to Gomer: the NHL is a hard salary cap league. if you pay a past-his-prime-aging d-man 6 mil per year you will have a hard time filling out the rest of you roster with players who can win the Cup.

Gomer really needs to go. And, he can take b schenn with him.

[brelic]

I wasn't sure how the "compliance buyout" affected the situation. Also, that Pronger isn't on LTIR at the moment and wouldn't be in the off-season. But I concede the point.

I don't think they buy out Briere until they "have to" - whether to re-sign the 3 RFAs or drop a huge offer to a UFA a la Parise/Suter.

I wonder if Pronger might be cleared to resume practice, at which point he's bought out. Kind of a win win.

The other point your post brought up is whether or not Pronger could actually be bought out now/end of season as he is technically not on LTIR.

[brelic]

Well, to be fair, Timonen is a leader and an All-Star with a wealth of experience to bring the younger guys. Subban is an obnoxious, selfish 23 year old just finding his way in the league.

Does that make Timonen worth twice as much? Maybe, maybe not, but it's worth something.

[Bertmega]

I don't love the signing, but there isn't much this summer and there is absolutely nothing in the Flyers depth chart that can remotely replace Timmonen at this point.

I think this is one of those hindsight kind of moves. Meaning in hindsight they should have offered Carle a contract or Jagr for that matter. At least it is only for one year. Besides scoring goals seems to be the issue with this team at this point.

Agreed with Schenn, that crap stain should be riding the bus in the AHL.

[radoran]

I don't think they can traditionally buy out Pronger at all. I was thinking the "one time" compliance buyouts that they're doing again.

The concept of being "cleared for contact" and then being bought out is an interesting one...

[radoran]

Well, to be fair, Timonen is a leader and an All-Star with a wealth of experience to bring the younger guys. Subban is an obnoxious, selfish 23 year old just finding his way in the league.

Does that make Timonen worth twice as much? Maybe, maybe not, but it's worth something.

It's also a question of Timonen being a UFA while Subban is an RFA. It's not Apples to Apples, more like Oranges to Tangelos.

This topic is well covered in the other Timonen thread.

[brelic]

I don't think they can traditionally buy out Pronger at all. I was thinking the "one time" compliance buyouts that they're doing again.

The concept of being "cleared for contact" and then being bought out is an interesting one...

Yes, I meant the amnesty buyouts. Thanks for the clarification.

[aziz]

The multi-year deal thing does come into play in what I would consider a pretty large way here.

I believe that Timonen plans to end his career as a Flyer. I believe the organization* actually does intend to have that happen as well. I believe both sides may feel there's two more years in the old dog.

If Timonen signed, as a 35+, a 2-year, $9M deal paying $6M and $3M his cap hit would be $4.5M a year - regardless.

that's a really interesting point. multi-year deals are constrained in how they can change salary year to year, but a plan for two seperate one-year SPCs allows $6mil next year -which the flyers can swing- and the $3mil the year after, when they'll really need the space. or $2mil. or whatever. in effect, by reducing options now, holmgren is increasing options down the road.

[radoran]

that's a really interesting point. multi-year deals are constrained in how they can change salary year to year, but a plan for two seperate one-year SPCs allows $6mil next year -which the flyers can swing- and the $3mil the year after, when they'll really need the space. or $2mil. or whatever. in effect, by reducing options now, holmgren is increasing options down the road.

Rather than "is increasing options" let's just say "could be increasing options."

This *is* the Flyers, after all

[aziz]

@radoran

ok, true, 'nother good point

[Jmdodgesrt4]

Well there are a lot of other circumstances to this salary that people forget. Comparing this contract/player to subban is comparing apples to oranges. For starters kimmo is really a Ufa . He can price himself as the market would pay. To be honest I believe he could get more on the open market. This Ufa dmen list is horrid. He would be cream of the crop. He is an excellent tutor to Schenn. I believe Schenn has been great so far. He just makes the simple plays and is a pain in the butt to play against. That's what he was suppose to be. Also subban is property of the canadiens. He has limited negotiating power. Sure he can sit out for a year but that doesn't help him. The team was playing great without him which doesn't help him. Subban is a good offensive player but defense needs work. He reminds me of mike green a bit. I think this is a fair signing and a needed one. Would I like weber instead for the price? No doubt. But that's not happening. I would like to see this team healthy before I pass judgement. Hell mezzy looked like he was going to set the world on fire before he got hurt.

[doom88]

That really just means Subban needs a new agent. Timonen at 6 is high, but still reasonable.

[doom88]

Timonen could also retire...

[radoran]

New article (can't cut and paste from iPad) has Timonen saying "99 percent sure" next year is his last.

[DaGreatGazoo]

Timonen could also retire...

He better not..unless you mean AFTER next year...otherwise they get nothing for his cap hit

[Polaris922]

Timonen WAS an All Star. Now he's just an overpaid veteran. Sorry fellas and all due respect to what he used to be, but these days he's just a 4 or 5 man on a lot of teams, and not worth $6 million by a long shot. You'd have been ten times better off with Streit, Visnovsky or Whitney. And probably could have one of them for that cash. I think sentimentality got in the way here.

Edited February 8, 2013 by Polaris922

[radoran]

I'll certainly say that keeping a six-year veteran leader certainly played into the equation - whether that is "sentimentality" is a matter of opinion.

Sort of like keeping Guerin, with the aside that Timonen isn't aa hired gun, but pretty much one of the few foundations the franchise has had over six years.

I do think $6M is overpaying. I do not think that it hampers the Flyers' ability to ice a competitive team and I don't agree that Streit, Visnovky or Whitney brings the same skill set that Timonen has - for this franchise. They would all three also likely require a multi year commitment, which would hamper the Flyers' ability to deal with pending RFA status for Giroux/BSchenn/Couturier.