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What's the move that gets made?


Guest InHexyWeTrust
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Not withstanding an injury depleted poor start to the season and an utter thrashing tonight in Toronto, Homer has constructed a very solid core group of forwards, a solid goaltender in Bryz as he has made a resurgence, 3 serviceable d-men in Schenn, Coburn & Mez with Kimmo as a stopgap for next year.

If Homer decides to make a move at the deadline, it's not going to be for that one extra veteran piece (like Iginla). Though we can't tell if this team will be a contender or not once Hartnell returns, Homer should continue building for the future regardless. The two pressing needs would be a young power forward to play with Giroux (Briere/Simmonds is not getting it done), or a puck-moving d-man.

The problem is that without moving B. Schenn or Couturier, we just don't seem to have the pieces to make a move. A package of Matt Read and Coburn aren't going to return a heck of a lot. As much as I want to see Bobby Ryan playing on G's wing, probably not going to happen.

So is the move to sit tight until the draft/free agency to fill our needs? Amnesty Danny and go after Perry? The defense is the bigger hole, and though I didn't mind Carle leaving, it's the more difficult position to fill as well.

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I have a feeling Briere will get bought out. He'd have to really light it up during the playoffs to stay and this team is far from a lock to make the postseason. If the rumors are true about Perry not wanting to sign long term with Anaheim, they'd be smart to deal him at the deadline. As for Ryan, I wouldn't package Schenn or Couturier for him. Possibly Voracek, Laughton and a pick which probably wouldn't get it done anyway. If anything I would try to pry Yandle from Phoenix for Voracek , a pick and one of our young D-men.

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@ " A package of Matt Read and Coburn aren't going to return a heck of a lot. "

I would consider Read an untouchable at this point. First off, we don't know what his ceiling is....plus, he generates points with a minimal cap hit. It's a way the Flyers can scam the system for a few years. Find out how good he might become and pay him when you have to, but I see them riding this out for all it's worth. It's super hard to find point production for cheap in this league, which makes Read a very valuable commodity...AND, in a trade scenario, I don't think you get an awesome return for him...not as much as he is helping our cap situation right now anyways. I'd have to say, any trade involving Read would be a loss for the Flyers somewhere down the line.

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Well first off you have to look at the guys that don't have a NTC or NMC...the list is:Voracek, Read, Giroux (not going anywhere) Talbot, Simmer, Read and McGinn (if you want to include player up and signed for a couple more years).

On defense you only have Mezz and Bourdon (who is damaged goods) so with that said and not awhole lot of talent on the farm if any....not a lot of wiggle room...

So it looks like if a trade needs to be done...guys of value, it will take Jake and/or Read which is signed for another year @ 900k makes him really attractive (but with scoring hard to come by it would have to be a BIG return to move your current leading scorer)...

...Talbot and Simmer could fetch something....just not sure what...

...this whole organization is in trouble.

Edited by OccamsRazor
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@ " A package of Matt Read and Coburn aren't going to return a heck of a lot. "

I would consider Read an untouchable at this point. First off, we don't know what his ceiling is....plus, he generates points with a minimal cap hit. It's a way the Flyers can scam the system for a few years. Find out how good he might become and pay him when you have to, but I see them riding this out for all it's worth. It's super hard to find point production for cheap in this league, which makes Read a very valuable commodity...AND, in a trade scenario, I don't think you get an awesome return for him...not as much as he is helping our cap situation right now anyways. I'd have to say, any trade involving Read would be a loss for the Flyers somewhere down the line.

I disagree with this jammer...look around the league who wouldn't want another team's leading scorer @900K for the remainder of this year and next?????

But it wouldn't be wise when you already have trouble scoring to trade him, it would have to be alot...teams would clamour over him...just not sure they would pull the trigger on it...unless it was someone they coveted...they need to just bite the big one and call the Simmanator up....

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@OccamsRazor The teams would clamour yes, but I don't think you would get equal value for him. Is Read worth a high first rounder....I doubt it. This type of trade could be Sharp x2.....geez, Sharp did not even look that good before he left, this kid looks really solid and creative. Read could be an 80 pt guy eventually, but will always be a 50+ kinda guy for sure, don't think the return for him right now would make sense for the team.....and how many millions and years do you pay to replace his pts after he is gone?

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Read holds an incredible value right now. While I would love to see him fit into the Flyers long-term plan, I just don't see it happening. The guy is a steal right now at his current cap hit of 900k for the remainder of the season and next. Problem is when we might be ready to legitimately compete his contract will be up. He's going to get a very large increase in salary (I'd imagine 4-4.5 range). Trading him now while his value is high and his cap is low would be the best time. If I thought we are 1 or 2 missing pieces away from getting to the Stanley Cup there is no way in hell I even consider trading him, but moving him to a contender tight against the cap for a high end prospect/1st rounder? Sure I'm game for a guy we signed as a undrafted FA.

A 26 year old in his 2nd season in the NHL coming off a rookie 47 point season making 900k? I don't know I just see a team offering substantial youth for that. If he were 20-21 obviously they should hold on to the guy, but at 26 I'm thinking we got what we've seen (which sure as hell isn't bad).

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Add one puck moving defenseman is the only need I think you guys have.

Oh we need MUCH more than that. How about people who can actually pass and get opened? How about people who are willing to pay the price in front of the net and work in trenches? How about finding people who can compete for the entire shift?

And please, for teh love of God, get Kurtis Foster out of the lineup. The guy has no friggin' clue.

Our GM is a complete, total dope... That's where the problem starts.

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What I see as the main problem is that they are NOT having QB..no playmaker...Giroux is good, but....Jagr made him very good, almost superstar...but now Jagr gone he cant find the net cause there's no playmaker on that team...and G is not that good.

He also needs to start to act like captain, for some reason he is playing with no heart at the moment,,,,not good.

and the D is what it is...we have now 3 players in the D that has some idea what they are doing.

Knuble....panic move in one way to replace Hartsy....

Read has been really good and even better when you value him by the money spend :)

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"One more deal" is just chasing the dragon.

There is not "one more deal" that can "make" this team a contender. It either has to come together or it doesn't.

They have to start playing consistently like they have played the game before. Stop chasing the puck.

Amazing that they got rid of "inconsistent" JVR and now the entire rest of the team is inconsistent.

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Amazing that they got rid of "inconsistent" JVR and now the entire rest of the team is inconsistent.

You still know good and well JVR WAS inconsistent here. The Flyers needed defensive help and they got it with Luke Schenn. With the performance and versatility of Matt Read and Coots, plus the addition of Wayne Simmonds and Brayden Schenn, JVR became expendable.The fact that Foster who would be hard pressed to make an AHL team is playing for the Flyers speaks volumes. With Mez out, and the Flyers playing guys like Foster/Lilja, it is killing the rest of the defense playing 25 minutes plus to cover for those guys.

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So, we got rid of a player who's now got 8 goals in 11 games because he was too inconsistent while here.

And now we need to make a deal because the team is too inconsistent. 11 games later.

"Making the reasonable move" is what turned Vaclav Prospal and the pick that became Danny Briere into Adam Burt over four years.

Chasing the dragon.

But I'm sure it will work this time. :ph34r:

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@radoran

inconsistent- lacking in consistency,agreement, or compatibility. At variance.

I think that is a pretty good definition of what JVR was when he was a Flyer.......

You can make a good argument for getting rid of JVR and it's an argument I might, in fact, agree with.

That said, the Flyers are a terrible team at developing talent. Absolutely terrible.

Luca Sbisa, JVR, Steve Downie, Jeff Carter, Mike Richards, Joni Pitkanen, Jeff Woywitka, Justin Williams, Maxime Ouellet.

Those are the first rounders since Gagne that have been traded away.

The only one to develop as a Flyer? Giroux. You could argue Crater/Richards, but their names are on the Cup under "Los Angeles Kings" (just like Williams and Gagne).

And for all the "untouchable" nature of Couturier and Laughton, I'm not holding my breath. Couturier will be "inconsistent" and "not developing as we'd hoped" and dealt for a defensive-minded Dman faster than you can say "but the JVR deal was a good one!"

And then we'll hear about what a good dal we got for Couturier.

Chasing the dragon.

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@radoran

I still have no clue as to how Pitkanen and Seidenberg played so absolutely clueless when they were here only to go to other teams and thrive. It appears so far at least that JVR is following in their footsteps....

"Philadelphia Flyers, a Farm Team for training Cup Winners".........

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@radoran

I still have no clue as to how Pitkanen and Seidenberg played so absolutely clueless when they were here only to go to other teams and thrive. It appears so far at least that JVR is following in their footsteps....

"Philadelphia Flyers, a Farm Team for training Cup Winners".........

Well, that's the point.

Maybe it isn't the players.

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Well, that's the point.

Maybe it isn't the players.

Maybe it's just me but I remember those two being turnover machines when they were here. I think Seidenberg benefits from being paired with Chara, kind of like Therien played well when paired with Rico....

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Maybe it's just me but I remember those two being turnover machines when they were here. I think Seidenberg benefits from being paired with Chara, kind of like Therien played well when paired with Rico....

So, the other teams put them in positions to succeed and the Flyers didn't.

Again, this is about developing talent. Name the last defenseman the Flyers drafted and developed. Name the last goalie.

My point is that the Flyers DON'T WANT to develop talent. They don't want to take the time. They want immediate results. If they don't get them, the player is gone.

And that theory hasn't worked for the team. Ever.

Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

Chasing the Dragon.

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I think we can all agree that the odds of the Flyers going deep in the playoffs this year is minimal. Whether it's because you think the roster isn't strong enough, injuries or the stars aren't aligned. I would argue though that this team is really only 3-4 moves away from seriously competing. I will explain.

Remember that (assuming a healthy roster) the average age of our forwards is 25. Of that group, the #2 & #3 centers are 21 (Schenn) and 20 (Couturier). Giroux (25) and Talbot (28) round out the 4 centers. Laughton is next in line which arguably makes the Flyers one of the strongest teams down the middle for years to come.

On the wings, Simmonds (23), Voracek (22), Read (26), & Hartnell (30) round out the top 4 wingers. McGinn (21) is looking like a serviceable winger also. There is a need for a #1 winger for Giroux. This is the top priority for the forwards.

Defense is obviously where the holes really start to become glaring.

Timo is here for 1 more year and will need to be replaced. Foster, Gervais and scrubs can't be a 3rd pairing if they are going to compete. So that leaves 3 spots on defense that need to be filled.

So, summed up the needs are -

Scoring winger

#1 Dman

#5 Dman

#6 Dman

So how do the Flyers brass acquire these missing pieces?

If I were GM, I'd be looking at cup contenders and talking to Briere about possibly accepting a trade at the deadline. This is hard for me, as I think Briere has given a lot back to this club in terms of grooming the younger players (Giroux, Couturier...) which makes it hard to even look at this route. That being said, this is a business (see Gagne, Simon). Briere and his history of over-achieving in the playoffs could fetch at least one very good prospect if not two. If Briere doesn't want to be traded, he should be bought out and the money saved used to target a UFA winger in the summer --- Corey Perry, Nathan Horton, Ryane Clowe...

The #1 dman needs to come from the draft. The draft is looking deeper every day with several top defensmen potentials. Obviously first and foremost, Seth Jones but there are others like Ristolainen, Pulock, Nurse and Zadorov that can go in the top 10. #5 & #6 dmen can be via trade or UFA but need to be serviceable.

post-3-0-52447500-1360702472_thumb.jpg

After looking at the healthy roster, it's really not bad at all. With a legit scoring winger for Giroux and a first pairing dman, this team is well on it's way to being a competitor for years to come.

The conclusion - Tank this year like @B21 's Penguins did a few years back :P, get in the lottery & get Seth or similar. Get the winger from a Briere trade or buy him out and use the money for a UFA winger

Tell me this roster wouldn't challenge for the cup....

post-3-0-06185200-1360703581_thumb.jpg

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Looks like they listened to you about the tanking part at least. Just for that comment, I hope you come in last place, and lose the draft lottery. ;) Or because of the lockout they only give you a 6.3% chance of winning the lottery like we had with Sid and you lost it anyway... draft 29th ;)

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