Poulin20 Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 I think we can all agree that the odds of the Flyers going deep getting in the playoffs this year is minimal.There I fixed it for you 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeZel25 Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Not withstanding an injury depleted poor start to the season and an utter thrashing tonight in Toronto, Homer has constructed a very solid core group of forwards, a solid goaltender in Bryz as he has made a resurgence, 3 serviceable d-men in Schenn, Coburn & Mez with Kimmo as a stopgap for next year. If Homer decides to make a move at the deadline, it's not going to be for that one extra veteran piece (like Iginla). Though we can't tell if this team will be a contender or not once Hartnell returns, Homer should continue building for the future regardless. The two pressing needs would be a young power forward to play with Giroux (Briere/Simmonds is not getting it done), or a puck-moving d-man. The problem is that without moving B. Schenn or Couturier, we just don't seem to have the pieces to make a move. A package of Matt Read and Coburn aren't going to return a heck of a lot. As much as I want to see Bobby Ryan playing on G's wing, probably not going to happen.So is the move to sit tight until the draft/free agency to fill our needs? Amnesty Danny and go after Perry? The defense is the bigger hole, and though I didn't mind Carle leaving, it's the more difficult position to fill as well.IMO 2 defenseman are needed here. Foster sucked before he got here and still sucks. Lilja shouldn't be here either. I don't see this year going anyplace so Bring up Gus and or Manning and see if they can play. If they cant play than you know what you need going into next year. I still think a young forward is going to be traded off of this team, Schenn,Read,Voracek or even Couturier depending on the return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindbergh31 Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 So, the other teams put them in positions to succeed and the Flyers didn't.Again, this is about developing talent. Name the last defenseman the Flyers drafted and developed. Name the last goalie.My point is that the Flyers DON'T WANT to develop talent. They don't want to take the time. They want immediate results. If they don't get them, the player is gone.And that theory hasn't worked for the team. Ever.Lather. Rinse. Repeat.Chasing the Dragon.Rad, all you have to look to is the guy writing the cheques, Ed Snider. Although he's been a good owner over the years, his competitiveness and unwilling to build a team through the draft and development is the reason Holmgren and the Flyers are as you put it "Chasing the Dragon" year after year. The stupid signings of players because he has the money to do it covered up a lot of mistakes made by management over the years. Eventhough we as Flyers fans would love to see them win the cup this year it isn't going to happen with this team so this is a perfect year to evaluate who are the Flyers core players going forward and to build around and then get rid of the rest for picks or prospects. As for goalies, eventhough Bryzgalov has played relentively good this year, they have to decide whether to keep him or buy him out and get a younger goalie to grow with this team (Bernier out of LA is one possibility) and maybe using the other buyout to get rid of Briere because of his cap hit or trade him to a contender. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter puck Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Holmgren is an idiot. I think you should keep him. I think most of the problem lies with a meddling owner. Ed Snider = Jerry Jones 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 (edited) i can't add much more than what @Digityman and @Linbergh31 have already said. This off season is critical for the future of this team. Management is going to have make some hard decision regarding certain players. (ie Briere) Unless this team totally tanks and goes into the toilet, I don't think Seth Jones is a realistic possiblity, however I will gladly take any of the other potential d-man draft prospects that d-man has posted.This team is not a playoff / stanley cup worthy team this reason for a myriad of reasons. Would I be disappointed if this team did not make the playoffs? I would be lying if I said otherwise. However, I understand for this team to be a cup contender, changes are going to have to be made and if that means missing the playoffs this year, then so be it. Management must make fundamental changes for this team to succeed next year and beyond. Edited February 16, 2013 by pilldoc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 I think most of the problem lies with a meddling owner. Ed Snider = Jerry JonesI actually was composing that very same thought until I hit the wrong button and deleted my post. The Cowboys will never succeed unless Jerry Jones steps down as a GM. He has made way to many contract screw ups for that team to be succesful. Sound familiar?I agree Ed is Jerry in the NHL world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Why make a move in a garbage season, unless it helps the future?If the Flyers miss the playoffs, it better be just once. I hated that feeling in the JVR draft year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Seth Jones might be worth missing the playoffs for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Why, if you are looking to develop and build a contender, draft laughton onto a team heavy in young forwards and skip maata? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Why, if you are looking to develop and build a contender, draft laughton onto a team heavy in young forwards and skip maata?Package in a trade ? Who needs defense anyway ? I don't know that move was perplexing, and that is said with appreciation for Laughton as a bonified NHL prospect. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Why, if you are looking to develop and build a contender, draft laughton onto a team heavy in young forwards and skip maata?I admit, that move makes no sense. We may never know why. But I agree, Maata would looke good in O&B. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Well you can't have him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 I'm starting to really think that this team might fire Lavy. This team has no jam, listless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caluso Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 "chasing the dragon" is brilliant!How many bad, stopgap, moves does our fearless leader, Gomer, have to make - while sacrificing the team's future - before someone takes away his keys?Historically, Gomer has thrown away draft pick after draft pick trying for the short-term fix. While it has kept the team competitive, it has really hindered them from managing the salary cap (that, plus Gomer is a moron and didn't understand how the former CBA worked; reference the pronger extension) and developing a farm system. Since this is a hard salary cap league, the Flyers are in a really bad spot - years from challenging for a Cup.Does anybody believe B Schenn is really a star-in-the-waiting? By the way, he is making 3 + million for his mediocre play.Does anybody believe that Couturier is going to get faster and quicker as he gets older? I think he gets slower and develops into nothing more than a third line center.Who is going to play D? Let me rephrase that, how long can Timo keep playing?The organization needs an overhaul. Its time for a change in management. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 (edited) @calusoBoth Couturier and Schenn have had impressive careers in junior. Schenn dominated a world jr tournament and was better than a point per game player in the A. It is not ubreasonable to think they will become very good NHL players, they both have flaws and are not generational talents like Crosby or Lindros. If you'll remember one of the better teams of Lindros' era was the Avalanche, a team full of guys that while not once every 20 year players were very good, allowed to mature as a group and won some titles.I think this group could be similar, and hey Schenn could be stronger on the puck, but I think he'll learn how to be that way in the NHL, just like I think Couturier well learn to develop some explosiveness, his top end isn't slow, it takes too long to reach it. Both have shown me enough in their first year in the league to think they'll be really good players. Edited February 17, 2013 by mojo1917 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 If you'll remember one of the better teams of Lindros' era was the Avalanche, a team full of guys that while not once every 20 year players were very good, allowed to mature as a group and won some titles.I do kinda haveta put Peter Forsberg, Patrick Roy and Joe Sakic in at least the "more than very good" category, if not "once every 20 year players."Honestly, I thought that the Richards/Crater deals and going young could have been the start of an actual plan. But it's become clear that they bought their own line that they could gut the experience on the team, replace it with players from Columbus and Los Angeles (no matter how talented), put everything on the back of a 35 year old defenseman and not skip a beat.Not signing Jagr and Carle because you wanted to put offers in for Suter and Parise - both of whom said they had no interest in Philadelphia - was beyond myopic. Homer should be considered legally blind for that.The Weber offer sheet was the icing on the cake. Especially considering that offer - and the megadeals for Parise and Suter - were both coming from owners who then locked out the players until they could secure an agreement that would prevent them from making such offers. The Flyers refuse to "rebuild" and insist they can just "reload."Never mind that that comment is even dumber than Jeffrey Lurie's "gold standard" remark, the basic fact is, no matter how many bullets are in the gun, the team hasn't evidenced even the slightest ability to shoot straight. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caluso Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 (edited) Both Couturier and Schenn have had impressive careers in junior. Schenn dominated a world jr tournament and was better than a point per game player in the A.There are plenty of players who are Triple A stars but can't cut it at the Major league level. I think both Couturier and Schenn are decent players (certainly not superstars) and to deem them "untradeable" is crazy. To deem anybody untradeable is crazy.Like Radoran posted, after the two trades were made last year, I thought that the light finally went on and that the Flyers finally realized you need to build from within and build with youth in this era of the hard salary cap. Sadly, I was mistaken as Gomer has repeatedly gone for the quick-fix in lieu of long-term success.With a barren farm system and salary cap problems,the future looks bleak. Edited February 17, 2013 by caluso 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 There are plenty of players who are Triple A stars but can't cut it at the Major league level. I think both Couturier and Schenn are decent players (certainly not superstars) and to deem them "untradeable" is crazy. To deem anybody untradeable is crazy.Like Radoran posted, after the two trades were made last year, I thought that the light finally went on and that the Flyers finally realized you need to build from within and build with youth in this era of the hard salary cap. Sadly, I was mistaken as Gomer has repeatedly gone for the quick-fix in lieu of long-term success.With a barren farm system and salary cap problems,the future looks bleak.To be fair to Homer here, he hasn't made the panic move... Yet.Signing Knuble was a nice band aid. Signing Foster was a low risk move. They are stop gaps that have really cost the team little in the short or long term.They are patches on problems carried over from past mistakes, but they are better than a young forard for Danny Markov and a draft pick for Vladimir Malakhov.I completely agree that no one is untradeable. But I also believe that sometimes the best deals are the ones you don't make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 I do kinda haveta put Peter Forsberg, Patrick Roy and Joe Sakic in at least the "more than very good" category, if not "once every 20 year players."Yeah, but besides those three? Well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 I think most of the problem lies with a meddling owner. Ed Snider = Jerry JonesThis might be the most telling POV of all. I never thought of it that way. Now that I am... I HATE IT!Oakland Raiders + Al Davis = mediocrityDallas Cowboys + Jerry Jones = mediocrityPhilly Flyers + Ed Snider = Yep, you guessed it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 This might be the most telling POV of all. I never thought of it that way. Now that I am... I HATE IT!Oakland Raiders + Al Davis = mediocrityDallas Cowboys + Jerry Jones = mediocrityPhilly Flyers + Ed Snider = Yep, you guessed itNo, really - you'd never heard of such a comparison? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Actually no, I never looked at it this way. Now that I do, its glaringly obvious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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