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Let Logic Reign... we should not be shocked here...


murraycraven
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Last nights game against against the Laffs was FUGLY and this season has been a huge dissappointment for most but lets look at this logically:

-Our defense is just not good. Mezz going down hurt us considerably but the defense was already suspect to begin with. Outside of Kimmo and Coburn everything else was an unknown including Schenn. Schenn has provided some grit on the backend but our 3rd d pairing should not even be starting in the NHL. Compared to the rest of the Atlantic we are at or near the bottom defensively.

-We were banking on a lot of hopes just like the Phillies are doing this season: We hoped Coots would play great defense as he did last year and also pot a few more goals. We hoped Jake finally found his way to utilize his skills and score more... We hoped B Schenn would turn into (or look like he should) a young Richards type player - or as he was labeled "the best player not in the NHL" while in Jrs and the A. Hartnell will have another career year right? Simmonds will have another career year too!? Talbot - he can score 15-20 like last year?! Maybe not... false hope?

-The one bright spot has been goaltending this year so our hopes came to be there - but for how long?

-G has been a ghost on the ice... not sure if he is hurt, overwhelmed w/ the "C" or just really misses Jagr on the 1st line... There was the neck injury in Germany - could he be experiencing issues from that? Sid was the same way before he got his bell rung again... I hope not but the question deserves to be asked...

-Injuries always play a factor and should never be an excuse...

-The one bright side is that Matt Read seems to have continued his pace from last year. IMO, he is untouchable unless you are blown away by a deal. The kid is a natural goal scorer and costs nothing...

I guess what I am saying is how can we be shocked about how this Team is playing? I just think they are what they are... Some good young players and some good supporting cast with a terrible defense... In my eyes this is all on Homer and not Lavy...

It sucks but it is what it is and a trade is not going to fix everything... I guess we pin our hopes on Hartnell and Mezz coming back in time to make a playoff push but at this rate I do not see this group as a playoff team...

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Not surprised, just dissapointed. This season was lost when we were not able to execute any of the big off season moves that we had planned. It a risk reward thing that Homer did the past summer. He went for it and lost. If he had been successful we would be singing a different tune right now. If he had stood pat and re-signed Carle and Jags we would be more fun to watch but still not a Stanley Cup team as the problems from last year that led to our ouster would remain, plus as you pointed out many guys are not producing as much as last year which maybe led to a bit of a mirage anyway.

I personally am glad we tried to make a big move or 2 over the summer to improve. It didn't work, now lets get a good draft pick and move on and let these young guys develop. We will be good down the road if we develop these guys and add pieces when they become available.

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I completely agree #20... it was a game of risk/reward and I give Homer the props for having the balls to try. I guess my point is that I am not surprised (as you said) but just dissapointed. Hopefully a nice draft pick is in our future but I will say I think Homer needs to stand his ground and not trade any of the young talent for a run this year. They are more than 1 or 2 pieces from being a serious contender in my eyes... keep the youth and build around it.

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The team is right where you would expect a team that got to the Cup Final and blew itself apart would be.

The concept that you would gut a (young) veteran core with playoff experience and "reload" with younger players (from Los Angeles and Columbus) without such experience and that would lead to continued, immediate success is ridiculous.

Of course, placing all your veteran eggs in the Chris Pronger basket didn't turn out too well, either. Or the Hatcher basket. Or the Forsberg basket. Or the...

Then, as one of the top spending teams, back a lockout to lower the overall cap and strap your team's ability to fill out the roster.

Those are the decisions the Flyers made.

I'm not surprised at all that they are where they are.

I do think they have a solid foundation to build upon.

And I fully expect them to blow it all up again.

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The team is right where you would expect a team that got to the Cup Final and blew itself apart would be.

The concept that you would gut a (young) veteran core with playoff experience and "reload" with younger players (from Los Angeles and Columbus) without such experience and that would lead to continued, immediate success is ridiculous.

Of course, placing all your veteran eggs in the Chris Pronger basket didn't turn out too well, either. Or the Hatcher basket. Or the Forsberg basket. Or the...

Then, as one of the top spending teams, back a lockout to lower the overall cap and strap your team's ability to fill out the roster.

Those are the decisions the Flyers made.

I'm not surprised at all that they are where they are.

I do think they have a solid foundation to build upon.

And I fully expect them to blow it all up again.

beautifully said Rad! If Homer trades a young player (Schenn, Read, Coots) I will most likely give up all faith

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I can't say that the team's performance this year has been a huge surprise. I'd probably be more surprised if they came out of the gate and looked like a playoff team.

People keep wondering what's wrong with Giroux? Well, maybe what's wrong is that he hasn't been playing with Hartnell and Jagr. The lack of a puck moving defenseman is glaring... Matt Carle says "hello from sunny Florida!". The team loses three pretty key offensive pieces (Carle, JVR, and Jagr) and replaces them with... who exactly? And everyone wonders why the offense is so bad?

The worst thing to do now would be to (in typical Flyers fashion) panic and start trading away young players for band-aids. There will be free agency, there will be a draft, the team is young...

dontpanic_1024.jpg

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@JackStraw

i've been saying the same thing as this though not as eloquently.

i don't think there is an in season move to be made that makes this bunch a cup contender. now in the offseason with some buyouts and free agents possiblilities , then there are moves that can be made to upgrade, but right now we'd be putting a band-aid on a compound fracture.

Edited by mojo1917
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The team is right where you would expect a team that got to the Cup Final and blew itself apart would be.

The concept that you would gut a (young) veteran core with playoff experience and "reload" with younger players (from Los Angeles and Columbus) without such experience and that would lead to continued, immediate success is ridiculous.

I still wonder about that trade. I can understand if people (media) got annoyed with Richards, or if he was under-performing in any given year. But to me, if you trade your franchise player, your Captain, the guy you have signed to a 12 year contract, something must have been seriously amiss. I just cannot accept that Homer would trade Richards for a 'change of scenery' or a few failings here and there.

It must have been some fundamental problem. We have all heard the rumours, and they may or may not be true... but such a bold move lends them a little more credence.

That whole day was WEIRD.

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@JackStraw

i've been saying the same thing as this though not as eloquently.

i don't think there is an in season move to be made that makes this bunch a cup contender. now in the offseason with some buyouts and free agents possiblilities , then there are moves that can be made to upgrade, but right now we'd be putting a band-aid on a compound fracture.

Amen mojo!

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OK, I will chime in.

Just like the most people here, I am not surprised one bit. Disappointed. Actually *very* disappointed as I realize this adds one more year to what seems like an eternal, beyond ridiculous inability of this team to win the Cup. But zooming on this season and disregarding the background noise, this is not surprising at all. This is a direct product of our GM making major mishaps and miscalculations. Of course the injuries to Meszaros and Hartnell did not help. But Holmgren did not put the team in a position to succeed. He put the team in a position to fail… from the get-go. I think he realized it himself when he admitted that this was one of the most frustrating summers for him. He weakened the team substantially and put the team in a huge hole, which not even Moses could get out of.

I absolutely agree with Rad. When you blow up the team who went to the Finals, wouldn’t that be overly ambitious to expect a different outcome? On that front, I am actually OK with the return. It won’t happen overnight, but the Couturiers and Schenns of the world should be getting better. I would say Couturier especially overachieved last season. Not to expect some bumps and bruises in a sophomore year from anybody would be single-minded. And from everything I heard, trading Carter and Richards was 100% The Old Man’s directive as he could not stand either, especially Richards.

But that’s the thing of the past. They should move on from that and focus on trying to find answers right now. Sadly, this version of the team has so many holes to patch, that regrettably I think this is irreparable.

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This is a direct product of our GM making major mishaps and miscalculations. Of course the injuries to Meszaros and Hartnell did not help. But Holmgren did not put the team in a position to succeed. He put the team in a position to fail… from the get-go. I think he realized it himself when he admitted that this was one of the most frustrating summers for him. He weakened the team substantially and put the team in a huge hole, which not even Moses could get out of.

Couldn't agree more. I'm fine with the Carter and Richards trades, I think they will work out for the Flyers in the long run. But last summer was a disaster for the team.

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No, I've had a bad feeling since the summer that this would be like '07 all over again(as I said prior to the season). I think you just have to let them play, be sellers at the deadline, and pluck the best jems out of this years draft.

@murraycraven

Basically we've taken a big step back this year, but they definately overachieved last year. I think that really has to be kept in perspective. Because what we see this year, was what I expected last year, and like you said we've subtracted from that cake.

You are right on about matt read, kid can play any position on any line, in any role.

G looks positively pedestrian out there. And why oh why must we place the captaincy curse on your highest scorer? UGH! Pronger was perfect! Can't get any worse for him, shoulda left it there.

But Gents, if we gotta suck, better to do so in an abreviated season than to have been force-fed this junk since Oct:) If we're not going to make the playoffs, make like a penguin, and tank dammit! No sense finishing in 10th place.

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Couldn't agree more. I'm fine with the Carter and Richards trades, I think they will work out for the Flyers in the long run. But last summer was a disaster for the team.

Yep... pretty much. As stunned and bedazzled as I was on the day the Carter and Richards moves were made, after I let all this sink in and think a little about it, I realized these were not bad moved. And that was even *before* the team drafted Couturier.

What Holmgren really needed to do was to BUILD on those moves. Instead, there were panicy, totally void of any sense moves that pushed the team back. Losing Bob, trading JVR, not being able to resign Jagr and Carle, going after Weber, Parise and Suter and missing on all three of them, signing Fedotenko, signing Foster, signing Gervais, bringing Leighton back... My God... this could not have been scripted any worse.

edit: it would be much to this team's advantage if this season was cancelled in its entirety. If anybody could've benefited from the entire season lost, it would be your Philadelphia Flyers.

Edited by Mad Dog
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No, I've had a bad feeling since the summer that this would be like '07 all over again(as I said prior to the season). I think you just have to let them play, be sellers at the deadline, and pluck the best jems out of this years draft.

@murraycraven

Basically we've taken a big step back this year, but they definately overachieved last year. I think that really has to be kept in perspective. Because what we see this year, was what I expected last year, and like you said we've subtracted from that cake.

You are right on about matt read, kid can play any position on any line, in any role.

G looks positively pedestrian out there. And why oh why must we place the captaincy curse on your highest scorer? UGH! Pronger was perfect! Can't get any worse for him, shoulda left it there.

But Gents, if we gotta suck, better to do so in an abreviated season than to have been force-fed this junk since Oct:) If we're not going to make the playoffs, make like a penguin, and tank dammit! No sense finishing in 10th place.

Seeing how the Eastern conference isn't that great, there is only a couple teams (New Jersey and Boston) trying to get in front of the rest of the pack, the remaining spots will be up for grabs right to the end of the season. Ideally, if the Flyers are going to miss the playoffs then hopefully they finish near the bottom to get a better draft pick and they trade some of their vets (Briere) for prospects and draft picks not to mention valuable cap space. Holmgren has to figure out what is core group of players are and then build from there. Giroux will be better once Hartnell is back, they work well together like LeClair and Lindros did in years past. But I have a feeling Holmgren won't change the way he does things like years past.

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