Five things wrong with the flyers

[colorado_al]

Ok, having center ice is a great thing for me out here in Colorado... I see more games than when I lived in Philly... in fact every game. Thank god for DVR.

In any case, watching this team over the long haul is forcing me to explode.

#1 This is the first year I can remember where Snider has not pulled the strings to try and help the team improve. ( Maybe he's catching the Eagles sickness... ie as long as the seats get filled anything is ok.

#2 For some reason, Lavy is having a hard time getting this team to come out and play. They come out at the start of every period like it's a practice session and the other teams are taking advantage.. Lavy... hint THE WORD IS OUT.

#3 I remember when this team ... note the word "team" knew how to hit. Now we just have one or two people who can do it and the rest just know how to skate backwards and give up ground.

#4 Now that G had the C I guess he needs to just pass the puck to others and not shoot... he did try a little last night so that's a good sign.

#5 Please, can someone teach the D how to play D... there's basic mistakes that are happening. There must be a cure for brain dead disease out there somewhere.

Ok, can't say I feel better but at least I tried.

[FD19372]

Colorado_Al,

I totally agree with your assessment. I will add one more thing from what I've observed. Defensively, this team SORELY lacks a guy who has some wheels and can skate the puck out of the zone. It drives me nuts how many times I see blind clearing attempts out of desperation, laziness or whatever. I can't tell you how many times I've seen them at even strength, let alone short-handed, try to clear the zone by caroming the puck off the glass, or worse yet trying to lob it up the middle. I don't think their personnel is good enough to skate the puck out successfully on a repeated basis. Now that Timonen has lost a step, he doesn't even do it. Coburn loses the puck when he tries to do it. They need to add that element, badly or teams will just pin their ears back and forecheck the hell out of them, and dare them to do anything about it. Oh wait, they already do. Homer needs to be on the phone now for a dman who can skate. If they don't get one it might be enough, with the teams they are competing against in their division, to cost them a playoff spot. I don't and can't blame Bryz for any of this. Are their forwards playing great? No, but I think you can manufacture goals with average to above average forwards.If your defense can't move the puck, I think your team will probably suck. The Flyers are a prime case and point for this. Just my two cents. What do you guys think?

"Good night, good hockey". - Gene Hart

Edited February 16, 2013 by FD19372

[Polaris922]

Colorado_Al,

I totally agree with your assessment. I will add one more thing from what I've observed. Defensively, this team SORELY lacks a guy who has some wheels and can skate the puck out of the zone. It drives me nuts how many times I see blind clearing attempts out of desperation, laziness or whatever. I can't tell you how many times I've seen them at even strength, let alone short-handed, try to clear the zone by caroming the puck off the glass, or worse yet trying to lob it up the middle. I don't think their personnel is good enough to skate the puck out successfully on a repeated basis. Now that Timonen has lost a step, he doesn't even do it. Coburn loses the puck when he tries to do it. They need to add that element, badly or teams will just pin their ears back and forecheck the hell out of them, and dare them to do anything about it. Oh wait, they already do. Homer needs to be on the phone now for a dman who can skate. If they don't get one it might be enough, with the teams they are competing against in their division, to cost them a playoff spot. I don't and can't blame Bryz for any of this. Are their forwards playing great? No, but I think you can manufacture goals with average to above average forwards.If your defense can't move the puck, I think your team will probably suck. The Flyers are a prime case and point for this. Just my two cents. What do you guys think?

"Good night, good hockey". - Gene Hart

I've been saying all along that's your weakness. But I bet they wait on Meszaros rather than make a move the size you'd have to do to get a top offensive minded d-man. And Meszaros isn't horrible at it, just not an ace.

[colorado_al]

>> I've been saying all along that's your weakness

And just think, the Flyers ( with all our problems ) took the Pens out of the playoffs last year... That must have really hurt.

[pilldoc]

#1 This is the first year I can remember where Snider has not pulled the strings to try and help the team improve. ( Maybe he's catching the Eagles sickness... ie as long as the seats get filled anything is ok.

Don't forget, Homer DID try to acquire Suter, Parise and Weber. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. Suter and Parise simply chose Minny. The Preds had no choice to match the offer that Ed and company threw on the table. So you can't say they didn't at least try..it just was not in the cards. They did trade JVF for L. Schenn. (jury still out on this one).

As has been discussed before, you can't expect Homer to just go and out and acquire someone and risk trading away some of the youth, which you know people will bitch about. Yes PK Subban was available, but again at what cost and are you ok with the trading away of Schenn / Coots/ Read???

#2) The slow starts have been the M.O. of this team for quite sometime now, both last year and the year before that. Is it a coaching issue? or has this team tuned Lavy out. This team got rid of some percieved locker room dissention (aka Carter / Richards) and yet this team still has slow starts. You don't think Lavy knows this? However correcting it is a whole different topic.

#3) You do know that this team is in the top 10 in HITS for the year. L. Schenn and Zak lead the way with B. Schenn, Coborn and Grossman not far behind. This "D" is terrible not doubt about it, but you can't give up defense position in trying to go for the bone crushing hit. Gervais, Foster and Lilja are horrible and don't deserve to be on an AHL team, much less a NHL team, although oe might make a case for Gervais. Kimmo is a year older and one step slower. Coburn turnsover the puck. Grossman has been a steal from the Stars. As stated early, Homer tried to go for the home run by going after Suter and/or Weber and unfortunately struck out. The problem with this team is that they fail to develop young defensemen. So yeah our "D" stinks, but this should not have been a shock to anyone.

Don't forget that when you have an offense that is anemic, as our is right now, it adds further pressure to the defensive corps.

#4) As far as Giroux and the "C". I would have been happier had he not gotten the "C" and given it to the likes of either Briere or Kimmo. However, that does not excuse his play. I can't help but think his neck injury from during the lockout is not bothering him. Something is not right and I don't think it is just because he got the "C".

@FD19372

"Homer needs to be on the phone now for a dman who can skate. If they don't get one it might be enough, with the teams they are competing against in their division, to cost them a playoff spot"

And who are you willing to give up for said D-man? As been discussed in other posts, for Homer to go out now and sell the farm to get a skating d-man is not worth it. It would have PANIC written all over it. Basically it will cost us a Coots / B. Schenn / Read. for said player. Maybe even a Voracek or Simmonds. Is it worth it. Don't forget with Karlssen out for the season, he price for a qualtiy d-man just went up. This team is not a cup worthy team. I quite frankly don't want this team to limp into the playoffs only to get smoked byt he likes of the Devils or Pens. I would rather take my lumps, miss the playoffs and hopefully draft one of the highly touted "D" prospects in the upcoming draft..

Edited February 16, 2013 by pilldoc

[pilldoc]

Don't forget, Homer DID try to acquire Suter, Parise and Weber. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. Suter and Parise simply chose Minny. The Preds had no choice to match the offer that Ed and company threw on the table. So you can't say they didn't at least try..it just was not in the cards. They did trade JVF for L. Schenn. (jury still out on this one).

As has been discussed before, you can't expect Homer to just go and out and acquire someone and risk trading away some of the youth, which you know people will bitch about. Yes PK Subban was available, but again at what cost and are you ok with the trading away of Schenn / Coots/ Read??? Don't forget there was a poll on this forum a few weeks ago regarding Subban's demeanor in the locker room and it was argued by many established posters on this forum, who would rather not take a chance on Subban on the count of his potential of being a locker room cancer.

#2) The slow starts have been the M.O. of this team for quite sometime now, both last year and the year before that. Is it a coaching issue? or has this team tuned Lavy out. This team got rid of some percieved locker room dissention (aka Carter / Richards) and yet this team still has slow starts. You don't think Lavy knows this? However correcting it is a whole different topic.

#3) You do know that this team is in the top 10 in HITS for the year. L. Schenn and Zak lead the way with B. Schenn, Coborn and Grossman not far behind. This "D" is terrible not doubt about it, but you can't give up defense position in trying to go for the bone crushing hit. Gervais, Foster and Lilja are horrible and don't deserve to be on an AHL team, much less a NHL team, although oe might make a case for Gervais. Kimmo is a year older and one step slower. Coburn turnsover the puck. Grossman has been a steal from the Stars. As stated early, Homer tried to go for the home run by going after Suter and/or Weber and unfortunately struck out. The problem with this team is that they fail to develop young defensemen. So yeah our "D" stinks, but this should not have been a shock to anyone.

Don't forget that when you have an offense that is anemic, as our is right now, it adds further pressure to the defensive corps.

#4) As far as Giroux and the "C". I would have been happier had he not gotten the "C" and given it to the likes of either Briere or Kimmo. However, that does not excuse his play. I can't help but think his neck injury from during the lockout is not bothering him. Something is not right and I don't think it is just because he got the "C".

@FD19372

"Homer needs to be on the phone now for a dman who can skate. If they don't get one it might be enough, with the teams they are competing against in their division, to cost them a playoff spot"

And who are you willing to give up for said D-man? As been discussed in other posts, for Homer to go out now and sell the farm to get a skating d-man is not worth it. It would have PANIC written all over it. Basically it will cost us a Coots / B. Schenn / Read. for said player. Maybe even a Voracek or Simmonds. Is it worth it. Don't forget with Karlssen out for the season, he price for a qualtiy d-man just went up. This team is not a cup worthy team. I quite frankly don't want this team to limp into the playoffs only to get smoked byt he likes of the Devils or Pens. I would rather take my lumps, miss the playoffs and hopefully draft one of the highly touted "D" prospects in the upcoming draft..

[ruxpin]

I agree with much that has been said. And for not being a Flyers' fan, @Polaris922 is quite on point, as per usual.

But I'd like to add one more complaint to this bitchfest.

The Powerplay.

I know that in the grand scheme of the problems concerning this team that this may not be the pan-ultimate problem, but the PP drives me nuts. It's not just the personnel on the ice, although I don't put Jake anywhere near the powerplay, and Timo's limpwrist wristshot from 65 feet drives me nuts. I don't like the incessant quarterbacking being done from the right hashboards (right, from the goalie's perspective). Nor do I like when one of the defensemen has an open shot at the goalie from the inner arc of the faceoff circle and dumps it acoss the box to the opposing halfboards. This is done enough that it is not simply the idiocy of the personnel. It is the idiocy of the design. From inside the faceoff arc, FIRE THE DAMN THING. So much can happen, even by accident, that a pass to a player at a horrible angle on the halfboards isn't just stupid, it's criminally stupid.

keep it simple and get the damn puck to the net.

[caluso]

The Flyers actually lead the league in hits so their physicality isn't the problem.

The team is really poorly coached:

1. They have no idea how to operate in their own zone
   
2. Their special teams aren't special
   
3. As you astutely pointed out, the Flyers are almost always slow starting games and/or periods
   
4. As someone else posted, I really can't see a "system at work" when I watch them play. The Left-wing Lock has a catchy name but not much else going for it.
   

The team desperately needs a new GM

1. We have the worst minor league system in hockey. The worst!
   
2. We are always in cap hell
   
3. Holmgren throws away draft picks like they are worthless, most of the time, hoping for a quick fix; sacrificing the future for short-term mediocrity.
   
4. If you add 1, 2 and 3 together, it is a very bad omen for the future.
   

[ruxpin]

The Flyers actually lead the league in hits so their physicality isn't the problem.

The team is really poorly coached:

1. They have no idea how to operate in their own zone Or any zone, for that matter.
   
2. Their special teams aren't special Agreed. Who is coaching that disaster? Murray?
   
3. As you astutely pointed out, the Flyers are almost always slow starting games and/or periods And not particularly good n the rest of the periods/games.
   
4. As someone else posted, I really can't see a "system at work" when I watch them play. The Left-wing Lock has a catchy name but not much else going for it. System? System?! Please write an email in structured paragraphs explaining in detail what you think the system is and I will send it to my source to see what (s)he thinks. I will then act like the ideas are mine and smuggly let you know where you are wrong.
   

The team desperately needs a new GM DING! Winner!

1. We have the worst minor league system in hockey. The worst! You're only saying that because we have absolutely no goaltending or defensive prospects anywhere in our "system."
   
2. We are always in cap hell. Maybe the Flyers can trade for Nick Foles. God knows he cannot play quarterback. Maybe he can play defense or backup at goal.
   
3. Holmgren throws away draft picks like they are worthless, most of the time, hoping for a quick fix; sacrificing the future for short-term mediocrity. Well, if you're going to draft poorly anyway. We could use John Carlson would still look good as a Flyer. How many teams has Emminger been on since.
   
4. If you add 1, 2 and 3 together, it is a very bad omen for the future. ...and the present.
   

[FD19372]

And who are you willing to give up for said D-man? As been discussed in other posts, for Homer to go out now and sell the farm to get a skating d-man is not worth it. It would have PANIC written all over it. Basically it will cost us a Coots / B. Schenn / Read. for said player. Maybe even a Voracek or Simmonds. Is it worth it. Don't forget with Karlssen out for the season, he price for a qualtiy d-man just went up. This team is not a cup worthy team. I quite frankly don't want this team to limp into the playoffs only to get smoked byt he likes of the Devils or Pens. I would rather take my lumps, miss the playoffs and hopefully draft one of the highly touted "D" prospects in the upcoming draft..

So, this team minus Jagr and that stud d man Carle aren't capable of beating the Pens again in the playoffs? I think as good as he is, they can live with losing Voracek for that offensive dman. I think if they can go and get 1 mobile dman, that can play decent minutes, they can beat EITHER of those teams again, particularly the Pens, again. I think Hartnell coming back will help the O a lot. Edited February 16, 2013 by FD19372

[FD19372]

The team is really poorly coached:

1. They have no idea how to operate in their own zone
   
   
2. Their special teams aren't special
   
   
3. As you astutely pointed out, the Flyers are almost always slow starting games and/or periods
   
   
4. As someone else posted, I really can't see a "system at work" when I watch them play. The Left-wing Lock has a catchy name but not much else going for it.
   

The team desperately needs a new GM

1. We have the worst minor league system in hockey. The worst!
   
   
2. We are always in cap hell
   
   
3. Holmgren throws away draft picks like they are worthless, most of the time, hoping for a quick fix; sacrificing the future for short-term mediocrity.
   
   
4. If you add 1, 2 and 3 together, it is a very bad omen for the future.
   

I agree on all of these points I might be in the minority here, but I think the organization flaws and philsophy that you are referring to comes down to one man, and it isn't Homer, it's Ed Snider. The owner (I think at least in our case)picks the GM, who in turn picks the coach. I really believe he wants to win at least more Cup so VERY badly in his golden years, that I think he could care less about the farm system development and wants to win right now. The problem is he probably isn't going about it the right way. To take this a few steps further, it took the Flyers organization this long to come to terms with the fact that the goalie is, IN FACT, important. Just like he possibly didn't like Russians for a while. If you want to win, you have to adapt to the way the game is played and won. He seems to forget that the last time he won the Cup his D and, especially his goalie, were the reasons why (and having Bobby Clarke there helped.) Their power play is a big issue, however, and I would place some of the blame on Lavy for that.

Edited February 17, 2013 by FD19372

[jammer2]

While they are not a slow team, they could use some more speed. I don't agree with Welly and Harry Z not playing!! We are WEAK at the forecheck...and they would help plenty with that problem!

[TedZep]

Ok, having center ice is a great thing for me out here in Colorado...

You actually sent some of your hard earned cash to the NHL this year?!? I'm out of market also, but there are other ways to watch the game, grainy, sometimes halting ways, but at least those greedy bastards aren't getting a cent from me.

As to your other points: the slow starts are crushing, without a doubt.

[Polaris922]

>> I've been saying all along that's your weakness

And just think, the Flyers ( with all our problems ) took the Pens out of the playoffs last year... That must have really hurt.

Many of your boys had career years last year. Jagr was good in the playoffs, and you had a slightly better Timonen and much better puck mover in Carle. Plus your boys ALWAYS seem to find their game against my Pens, winning and losing often. You definitely won the battle of worst goaltending last year.

My point remains the difference a good puck moving defenseman can make. Your team doesn't have one right now and Laviolette's entire system seems to be failing largely because of it.

[BearOnIce]

Ok, having center ice is a great thing for me out here in Colorado... I see more games than when I lived in Philly... in fact every game. Thank god for DVR.

In any case, watching this team over the long haul is forcing me to explode.

#1 This is the first year I can remember where Snider has not pulled the strings to try and help the team improve. ( Maybe he's catching the Eagles sickness... ie as long as the seats get filled anything is ok.

#2 For some reason, Lavy is having a hard time getting this team to come out and play. They come out at the start of every period like it's a practice session and the other teams are taking advantage.. Lavy... hint THE WORD IS OUT.

#3 I remember when this team ... note the word "team" knew how to hit. Now we just have one or two people who can do it and the rest just know how to skate backwards and give up ground.

#4 Now that G had the C I guess he needs to just pass the puck to others and not shoot... he did try a little last night so that's a good sign.

#5 Please, can someone teach the D how to play D... there's basic mistakes that are happening. There must be a cure for brain dead disease out there somewhere.

Ok, can't say I feel better but at least I tried.

Enjoying Blue Jackets - Yotes tonite on Center Ice. Yandle does not look that good. I would take Doan in a minute.

You are correct with everything you say. This Flyers team has problems. Coaching & GM should be held reponsible. Nuff said.

[ruxpin]

While they are not a slow team, they could use some more speed. I don't agree with Welly and Harry Z not playing!! We are WEAK at the forecheck...and they would help plenty with that problem!

Terrific points. They should be playing.

[pilldoc]

So, this team minus Jagr and that stud d man Carle aren't capable of beating the Pens again in the playoffs? I think as good as he is, they can live with losing Voracek for that offensive dman. I think if they can go and get 1 mobile dman, that can play decent minutes, they can beat EITHER of those teams again, particularly the Pens, again. I think Hartnell coming back will help the O a lot.

this team is a disaster. did you watch the game tonight? No right now this team cannot beat the Pens again. MAF will not play that bad again in goal for the pens. Also, Coots is struggling. Talbot is struggling. The whole team in whole stuggling. The team we saw last year vastly overcheived. Having MEz and or Harts back is not going to suddenly change this atmosphere.

[jammer2]

@ruxpin I would love to see them role 4 lines, with the 4th getting just a tad less time on the ice. If Welly and Harry.Z were playing, that is almost a quarter or the game with a natural speed mismatch.....only good things can happen with that.

[ruxpin]

I'd trade Voracek for a Klondike Bar. So, if you can get a top 4 defenseman for him, a draft pick, and year's subscription to Playboy, you do it.

[ruxpin]

Does anyone here think Mez is actually any good? I mean dependable third pairing guy or maybe the step-sister on the second pair, but anything more than that? Has our defense really gotten THAT bad that anyone thinks he's a top pair defenseman?

[jammer2]

@ruxpin Realistically, on most teams, Mez is a 3-4 guy. On the Flyers, he is probably second to Kimo.....but only because Luke and Grossmann don't have all round games. Coburn, I don't even want to talk about him, he's regressing.

[OH1FlyersFan]

In any case, watching this team over the long haul is forcing me to explode.

Amen! I live in Columbus, OH. Have Center Ice, and Have watched every game this season. Watching this team is forcing me to keep from kicking the dog. Thinking about canceling Center Ice so I won't be tempted to watch every game and forced to kick the dog. Haha. Just kidding. I love animals.

[OH1FlyersFan]

So, this team minus Jagr and that stud d man Carle aren't capable of beating the Pens again in the playoffs? I think as good as he is, they can live with losing Voracek for that offensive dman. I think if they can go and get 1 mobile dman, that can play decent minutes, they can beat EITHER of those teams again, particularly the Pens, again. I think Hartnell coming back will help the O a lot.

As much as I love the Flyers, I don't see them beating much of anyone for a while........