brelic Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 I know giroux is a great player but schenn, cooter, and jake we are kind of hoping they turn out the way they are predicted. Schenn and cooter have not given me any faith this year that we made the right moves in trading richards... i hope it works out and think we need to give it some time to see what we really have...Cooter, I agree with you. He looks like he lost a step this year... looks a little more lost for some reason. But he's still just 19, so it's to be expected. And we got him in the Carter trade, not Richards.But for Schenn and Jake, I'm not sure what you're seeing that suggests they weren't the right moves. Richards had those intangibles that I haven't really seen from either of these two, but in Schenn's case, he's only 21 and both he and Jake lead the team in scoring. Both have more points than Richards and Carter, and both are younger that those two. Plus we have Simmonds and Coots from those trades as well.What is it you don't like about the trades? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Thinking about it more, my "lack of effort" and your "lackadaisical attitude" critique ... maybe there are some reasons for it worth considering. Start with how the Flyers play. Night after night guys are scrambling to chase down weak passes, watching teammates blow the most fundamental assignments ... forced into foot races to negate an icing, on a puck that should've been controlled...etc. You get in those positions often enough you may develop a "Fk it" attitude. You may start going through the motions. Even without the attitude when you're constantly covering mistakes it just kills your legs...the 3rd rolls around and you got nothing.I think I clarified what I believe Hartnell can provide. As far as a "major shake-up" I agree the team needs one ASAP...right now. A trade won't do much good (can't replace 5, 6 guys) and firing Lavy won't accomplish much either because I think the captain is right when he said "We're just going through the motions."If I could tell you how I'd fix that I'd be employed in professional hockey somewhere I guess.So who's responsible for the "lackadaisical attitude" and "lack of effort"? Is it the coach? I mean, we've seen hard working Flyers teams under Laviolette before. So, it might be him, but what has changed? Is it the captain? Is it not his role to foster a culture of hard work, sticking up for each other, and fighting through rough patches?To be clear, I'm not saying that because Giroux has the "C" sewn on his sweater, this is his fault. We'll see if his leadership can turn this team around. It's early in his captaincy, he's quite young, and this team has a lot of young, inexperienced guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted February 18, 2013 Author Share Posted February 18, 2013 So who's responsible for the "lackadaisical attitude" and "lack of effort"? Is it the coach? I mean, we've seen hard working Flyers teams under Laviolette before. So, it might be him, but what has changed? Is it the captain? Is it not his role to foster a culture of hard work, sticking up for each other, and fighting through rough patches?To be clear, I'm not saying that because Giroux has the "C" sewn on his sweater, this is his fault. We'll see if his leadership can turn this team around. It's early in his captaincy, he's quite young, and this team has a lot of young, inexperienced guys.That is sort of the question I asked several pages ago. I don't know if there is one specific person to blame. It could just be an attitude which starts in the locker and then for whatever it carries to the ice. could it be they are trying to be loose in the locker room and it is carry over to the ice? Just a thought. I really don't know if they know why it happens. Lack of the veterns to keep this team focused, or is it just because they are a young team (not real good reasons I know because of them all being highly paid professional athaletes). Just tryining to come up with something here.BTW...great thread guys...some very thought provoking responses. Was not expecting this when I first posted this topic yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskaFlyerFan Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 BTW...great thread guys...some very thought provoking responses. Was not expecting this when I first posted this topic yesterday.You were just stirring the pot, weren't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted February 18, 2013 Author Share Posted February 18, 2013 You were just stirring the pot, weren't you? You know I'm just a simple old fashion pharmacist...alittle of this...and mix alittle of that..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 You know I'm just a simple old fashion pharmacist...alittle of this...and mix alittle of that..... Why don't you mix up a sweet little elixir for the Flyers?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted February 18, 2013 Author Share Posted February 18, 2013 (edited) @brelicLOL..... I would if I could.....how about alittle something for us fans too! something to make us forget the 16 games this year! any other requests Edited February 18, 2013 by pilldoc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 @brelicLOL..... I would if I could.....how about alittle something for us fans too! something to make us forget the 16 games this year! any other requests Haha, yes, I think fans need it more!!It was pretty embarrassing to watch the Habs/Flyers game with my brother-in-law Habs fan. The wine helped numb some of the pain though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted February 18, 2013 Author Share Posted February 18, 2013 Haha, yes, I think fans need it more!!It was pretty embarrassing to watch the Habs/Flyers game with my brother-in-law Habs fan. The wine helped numb some of the pain though...Ouch! I know that feeling. I have in-laws who are die hard Pen fans. Also my own wife roots for the Caps ...because "their AHL team is are the Hershey Bears and we live near Hershey." So I hear ya....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Ouch! I know that feeling. I have in-laws who are die hard Pen fans. Also my own wife roots for the Caps ...because "their AHL team is are the Hershey Bears and we live near Hershey." So I hear ya.......LOL... That's grounds for divorce right there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 "Lackadaisical attitude" or "lack of effort."I know the players are paid a lot of money and they are supposed to be professional and all that rot.But given the piss poor way the current company I work for is run, I would like to pose this:Assuming that the players are just as capable of looking at the roster as we are: If you see your management indicate that they simply don't give a rat's crap about this season--as evidenced by no attempt or care whatsoever to make sure there's a backup goalie and dressing at least 3 defensemen who have no business being in an NHL uniform. If you've watched management, either by refusal or ineptitude, allow two of your better players from last year just walk away without so much as an offer or a sneeze, I would think it might be difficult mentally to put your top effort out there game after game for 60 minutes. Like, hell, if the company doesn't give a rat's crap, why should I bust MY tail?None of this excuses anything, but I do wonder if that feeling permeates the locker room--or at least just enough players to cause what we're seeing: A horrible cluster of players who are incapable skating with a cluster of players who have at least mentally given up this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 @ruxpin "None of this excuses anything, but I do wonder if that feeling permeates the locker room--or at least just enough players to cause what we're seeing: A horrible cluster of players who are incapable skating with a cluster of players who have at least mentally given up this season" Don't know how much you can really take from the Isles game today (NYI looked flat and listless from the start)....but yeah, the players are seeing this and obviously have a much better perspective than we have. I betcha a common behind the scenes converstation between players without management present is who sits and who is inserted into the line-up. They know better than anyone when a player who is dogging it plays before a guy who really deserves it because of political reasons....I also think a lot of that goes on in Philly, that loyal Homer thing being front and center, the favourites get treated as such. This team was built on cronyism, so why stop now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 I also think a lot of that goes on in Philly, that loyal Homer thing being front and center, the favourites get treated as such. This team was built on cronyism, so why stop now?Despite all Snider's flaws, he wants to win and he wants to win bad. One would think sooner or later he will remove those blinders blocking his view and stop this ridiculous promotion from within. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Ouch! I know that feeling. I have in-laws who are die hard Pen fans. Also my own wife roots for the Caps ...because "their AHL team is are the Hershey Bears and we live near Hershey." So I hear ya.......My wife (as of last month) was converted by me long ago to the Flyers from the Caps. Might want to get on that, or you'll be rockin the red and going to club scarlet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 (edited) Staus Quo:The Flyers fans are the most faithful in the league. Flyers Comcast plays on this. It is about $$$$ with them as Robber Barons.Go look at what other organizations do. It is painfully obvious we are being played.Flyers will never win anything as long as Snider, Clarke, and Holmgren are there. Never. The complete organization is knee-jerk.Holmgren always tries to look like he is trying to make the team better but his history of the worst farm team in the league says otherwise. he has no clue to build and he has Snider always wanting to win = No patience. Instant Gratification Ed.This team has not developed more than a handful of defensemen in 35+ years. Don't even go there with goalies.Why you let Jagr and Carle go is beyond me.Giroux is proving quickly to be a young, struggling captain.You have to trade forwards now, not later, to stop the defensive melt-down.You telling me that injuries to Harts, Mez are the primary reason this teams sits #12 in the East this morning.I am a Peter Laviolette supporter, but I am questioning if he is right for this team. If Lavy goes, so needs to Holmgren, and all the coaches.. Enough of the inbreeding and croynism.I will make no critique of individual players except to say outside of Giroux, I would consider all offers.Who would of guessed that on 2.17.13 this Fkyers team would be in this shape but Bryz, "The Man Of A Thousand White Tigers", would be playing well.A bit knee jerk wouldn't you say?? Truthfully, I don't care what happens to this "season" and I certainly am not going to mortgage the future for this "season". To say that there needs to be a cleaning of house from upper management down AND trading our young talent is completely absurd to me. Stay the course and have patience. Would you really be proud if we won the cup this year??I am not sure what is up with our road performance this year (we were better on the road last year than at home). That said, we are stellar at home. 11 of our 17 games have been on the road. That means that we have 13 more road games and 18 more home games (a 2-3 ratio). Lets see how we do at those home games.I guess my point being, get off the ledge.P.S. We are only 2 points out of a playoff spot and of all things, our goalie is not our problem this year. Edited February 19, 2013 by Vanflyer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 To say that there needs to be a cleaning of house from upper management down AND trading our young talent is completely absurd to me.I will agree that I don't want to start a trade windmill spinning right now. And I most certainly is in no rush to trade the youngsters. Upper management is a different story though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearOnIce Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 A bit knee jerk wouldn't you say?? Truthfully, I don't care what happens to this "season" and I certainly am not going to mortgage the future for this "season". To say that there needs to be a cleaning of house from upper management down AND trading our young talent is completely absurd to me. Stay the course and have patience. Would you really be proud if we won the cup this year??I am not sure what is up with our road performance this year (we were better on the road last year than at home). That said, we are stellar at home. 11 of our 17 games have been on the road. That means that we have 13 more road games and 18 more home games (a 2-3 ratio). Lets see how we do at those home games.I guess my point being, get off the ledge.P.S. We are only 2 points out of a playoff spot and of all things, our goalie is not our problem this year.Van:With all respect, when the Flyers make a pro-active move like this and get someone at GM who actually knows how to draft and deveop an organization, let me know, ok?http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/story/?id=415882&hubname=nhl-blue_jacketsBOI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Van:With all respect, when the Flyers make a pro-active move like this and get someone at GM who actually knows how to draft and deveop an organization, let me know, ok?http://www.tsn.ca/nh...hl-blue_jacketsBOIWow, Columbus has three 1st round draft picks this year??? Too bad Howson is gone; otherwise, we could have traded Jon Sim for a first rounder Seriously, how can they continue to be this bad, get high draft picks, and never improve? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Back on topic, kudos to G for stepping up. I'm not surprised he did; on the ice, this guy can be a monster and it was only a matter of time. Guess he needed to be a little pissed off Let's hope he can take that 'on ice' stuff and unite the locker room. It's really promising that guys are starting to gel together. Schenn and VOracek looked solid together, and now they moved Voracek to the G line, and he did not disappoint. Schenn looked excellent yesterday, but his goal came off a great pass from Jake on the PP. Let's see if he develops chemistry with Briere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Back on topic, kudos to G for stepping up. I'm not surprised he did; on the ice, this guy can be a monster and it was only a matter of time. Guess he needed to be a little pissed off Let's hope he can take that 'on ice' stuff and unite the locker room. It's really promising that guys are starting to gel together. Schenn and VOracek looked solid together, and now they moved Voracek to the G line, and he did not disappoint. Schenn looked excellent yesterday, but his goal came off a great pass from Jake on the PP. Let's see if he develops chemistry with Briere.Wednesday is a big game. I'm happy they can dominate the Islanders and Panthers. Would like to see the same effort in a game against an NHL opponent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearOnIce Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Wow, Columbus has three 1st round draft picks this year??? Too bad Howson is gone; otherwise, we could have traded Jon Sim for a first rounder Seriously, how can they continue to be this bad, get high draft picks, and never improve?The picks conceal the problems. Howson was a fraud. Kekalainen is the real deal. He will work well with Davidson. Both have Blues pedigree. This team is getting a lot better, and fast. Good young core. I watched them in their loss to Avs last night 3-2 but Bob was solid (Flyers are going to regret that move..) and they have a very up tempo defence corp that moves the puck well. I doubt that they make the payoffs this year but are starting to move back to the upswing they had 3 years ago. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 @BearOnIceI agree about the moves. I think Davidson knows his stuff. Should be interesting to watch unfold., Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 With all respect, when the Flyers make a pro-active move like this and get someone at GM who actually knows how to draft and deveop an organization, let me know, ok?When Jarmo has done something significant at the NHL level as a GM, let me know. Until then I don't think there is much to talk about. Homer is not perfect. He has laid some turds, but he has also laid some golden eggs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Upper management is a different story though...For conversation purposes, who and why?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canoli Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Would like to see the same effort in a game against an NHL opponent.Satisfied?I sure am. That was a helluva crazy game - a few ugly goals but not nearly as bad as last year's POs. Everything else was the pretty much the same - just full-tilt crazy. But you (and me - and MD etc) mentioned wanting to see more effort - shift to shift I think we saw it last night. Harry went overboard after the TO but other than that I thought the Flyers (and the Pens) played extremely hard and smart from start to finish.As per the topic of the thread: I don't know how much more you can ask of your captain...other than to keep doing what he's doing. I hope all the "was he ready, is he cursed?" questions about his captaincy die down now and that Flyers' fans start to factor in a few things about Giroux, namely that he's only 25 years old, this is his first shot at captaining a hockey team (from what I can tell searching the web) and he's had a revolving door of linemates so far this year. Even without the captaincy I think he'd be hard-pressed to duplicate all his successes last season. But the good news is....things are looking up! Now....let's just not lay a big fat EGG tonight please! I can almost smell it coming unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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