Time for Bob as # 1

[brelic]

Then he should have no problem buying him out when the time comes.

[SoCalFlyfan]

This is completely wrong. Bryzgalov was signed because of pressure from the owners, namely Mr. Ed Snider. He had no choice.

now that i think about you're probably right. but still it was a 'PR' move. basically doing what everyone says the flyers never do , ie: go out a get a #1 goaltender. it's kinda like a president that reads opinion polls and bases his positions on whatever is popular at the moment as opposed to the guy that has a distinct vision for the direction he wants to go.

the flyers have always been like this for the most part. if we all whine enough and the reporters write stories about our glaring needs, then our GM will give us what we want. in turn we'll keep buying season tickets and flyers crap.

[s3x]

the flyers have always been like this for the most part. if we all whine enough and the reporters write stories about our glaring needs, then our GM will give us what we want. in turn we'll keep buying season tickets and flyers crap.

I am sorry but I cant help but disagree once again. The Flyers fanbase has been screaming for a number one caliber goalie for nearly two decades. Just last year, Holmgren responded and states that he didn't believe goaltenders won Championships -- instead solid defense did (hence going out and getting Pronger, then Meszaros) and referenced the Red Wings in his defense. Last year, we went through 9 goalie changes and 3 different goalies in 11 games in the postseason. And Ed Snider said enough is enough. This organizations wants to win. There's a reason we have made the postseason 15 out of the last 16 years.

[s3x]

the flyers have always been like this for the most part. if we all whine enough and the reporters write stories about our glaring needs, then our GM will give us what we want. in turn we'll keep buying season tickets and flyers crap.

I am sorry but I cant help but disagree once again. The Flyers fanbase has been screaming for a number one caliber goalie for nearly two decades. Just last year, Holmgren responded and stated that he didn't believe goaltenders won Championships -- instead solid defense did (hence going out and getting Pronger, then Meszaros) and referenced the Red Wings in his support. Last year, we went through 9 goalie changes and 3 different goalies in 11 games in the postseason. And Ed Snider said enough is enough. This organizations wants to win. There's a reason we have made the postseason 15 out of the last 16 years. Are they at times clouded by the fact that this organization has always promoted from within? Perhaps.

Edited December 24, 2011 by s3x

[aziz]

The Flyers fanbase has been screaming for a number one caliber goalie for nearly two decades.

the problem is that most people have no idea what this means. most people look at last year's stats and think they have insight. thus: bryzgalov.

[terp]

Just last year, Holmgren responded and stated that he didn't believe goaltenders won Championships -- instead solid defense did (hence going out and getting Pronger, then Meszaros) and referenced the Red Wings in his support.

Interesting data point re the question of who wanted to spend big on a goaltender this off season. I really doubt Homer's philosophy changed in 6-12 months time, so this is more support for the idea that it was Snider, not Homer, who wanted Universe. For sure, the Flyers needed more stability in net, but they could have gotten that for a lot less than $51 million.

[s3x]

For sure, the Flyers needed more stability in net, but they could have gotten that for a lot less than $51 million.

When the Universe knows it is needed, the Universe gets paid. This is the Law of the Universe.

[terp]

When the Universe knows it is needed, the Universe gets paid. This is the Law of the Universe.

Bryzgalov deserves to be pelted with rotten vegetables for his commentary alone.

Edited December 24, 2011 by terp

[doom88]

Maybe the bad karma was going for the money, or lying to get paid as a number one when his play is more like a number two.

[MrX]

I am convinced now ....Bryzgalov was a bad move. Maybe the pressure of being the number one in Philadelphia, the comfort in getting the big pay day, or perhaps just chemistry, but this guy just isn't playing good hockey.

I understood why they signed him but I don't think it is going to pan out. Maybe they should stop the bleeding, put in Bobo regularly and let Bryzgalov collect dust. Maybe at the deadline some team will want him, believing that he is still a good goalie, just in a bad situation. In the Ranger game, I felt the first two deflected goals were just fluky; not much he could do there. But that third goal from Gaborik changed the game. If he stops that play, I suspect an energy change from the team. By not stopping it, it just crushed any chance of coming back. On the last goal, he looked like he just gave up. Nothing like leaving a nice, fat anf juicy rebound in front of your net

[terp]

like a number two

Exactly. He's playing like sh!t.

[Vincent05]

Exactly. He's playing like sh!t.

Bryz can't be compare to sh!t. I rather have sh!t cause if I don't like it I can flush it down the toilet! While the other is a hemorrhoid that can't be remove for the next 8 1/2 years.

Edited December 25, 2011 by Vincent05

[flyercanuck]

It's hard to win a game when team is not scoring goals a front of him. Yes agree he was not too good, as he was in Phoenix.

He's got the NHLs highest scoring team in front of him. They are the ONLY reason he's winning games.

[flyercanuck]

I am sorry but I cant help but disagree once again. The Flyers fanbase has been screaming for a number one caliber goalie for nearly two decades. Just last year, Holmgren responded and stated that he didn't believe goaltenders won Championships -- instead solid defense did (hence going out and getting Pronger, then Meszaros) and referenced the Red Wings in his support. Last year, we went through 9 goalie changes and 3 different goalies in 11 games in the postseason. And Ed Snider said enough is enough. This organizations wants to win. There's a reason we have made the postseason 15 out of the last 16 years

. Are they at times clouded by the fact that this organization has always promoted from within? Perhaps.

Yes the Wings won without great goaltending and with team defence. Did he notice the teams who won with great goaltending? Boston, Pittsburgh, Anaheim, Carolina, Tampa, New Jersey, Dallas, Colorado, New Jersey, Rangers, Montreal, Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh, Montreal, Islanders (X4) Philly (X2) Montreal Boston,.....shall I go on?

There's a reason we haven't won the cup since the last time we had a great goalie for more than one playoff run.

[brelic]

The criticism of Bryz is starting to spill over into the mainstream Philly media (because I don't remember the beat writers being critical of Bryz so far):

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/flyers/20111226_Flyers_need_Bryzgalov_to_step_up_his_game.html

The Flyers are on a brief holiday break, giving them time to spend with their families - and perhaps reflect a bit on their 11-plus weeks of solid, gritty hockey.

Aided by the rapid development of several rookies, the Flyers have overcome a slew of injuries and have put together a 21-9-4 record - and are one point behind the Eastern Conference-leading Boston Bruins.

The positives have outweighed the negatives. By far.

The problem is, one of the few negatives has been at the most important position - goaltender.

Ilya Bryzgalov hasn't played up to expectations. His 14-7-3 record is misleading, based more on the offensive support he has received than his strong play.

With star defenseman Chris Pronger sidelined for the rest of the season because of severe post-concussion syndrome, Bryzgalov needs to step up his game if the Flyers are going to be a serious Stanley Cup challenger.

Bryzgalov, 31, has had some very good stretches, but he has been much too inconsistent for someone of his pedigree.

Overall, he has a 2.92 goals-against average (34th in the NHL) and .895 save percentage (41st). He has struggled at home, where he is 6-5-1 with a 3.45 goals-against average and .882 save percentage. In games against the East's top two teams, the Boston Bruins and New York Rangers, he is 1-2 with a 4.14 GAA and .851 save percentage.

The Flyers did not give him a nine-year, $51-million contract because they expected those numbers.

Bryzgalov is coming off Friday's 4-2 loss against the Rangers at Madison Square Garden. Two of the goals he allowed were on deflections and another was on a breakaway.

"I don't know what to do, guys," Bryzgalov said after the game. "Maybe we should play tighter defense and box out the guys."

He called the deflected goals "bad luck, bad karma" and said he would push forward. He is one of the Flyers' hardest workers in practice.

"I don't know what to do but continue to work. I hope someday it's going to change," said Bryzgalov, who has been noticeably sharper against Western Conference teams, perhaps because he is familiar with their tendencies. "A new year is coming. Maybe in the new year everything is going to be different."

He has played only 25 games with the Flyers, so there is time to steady himself and start to resemble the goalie who excelled in Phoenix. Bryzgalov will get a chance to get back on track Tuesday against the host Tampa Bay Lightning. That is, if coach Peter Laviolette gives him the start.

Backup Sergei Bobrovsky has been more consistent. The second-year goalie is 7-2-1 with a 2.56 goals-against average and .913 save percentage.

[radoran]

I find the aarticle typical of the lazy reporting done in the "MSM" - it reads like they just cribbed some notes off this site.

For one, I love the concept of the backup being "more consistent" - having never played consistently...

Then there's the "deceptive" record - the facst are that prior to the Rangers both Bob and Bryz had given up four or more goals in 1/3 of their starts.

I still think the Flyers are tied to Bryzgalov like a pair of cement overshoes, but that's the bed they made for themselves.

I would have probably liked to see what the younger guy had in the tank, but Snider was cleary not happy with a young Russian and wanted an older one...

Maybe the best thing for Bryz is to play Bob until he's not the "consistent" goalie that everyone seems to think he is.

Then peope will start demanding that they play the backup...

I think a $51M mistake will be the end of Homer if they buy out Bryz. Only god is removing Snider (or Snider himself).

[JackStraw]

so this is more support for the idea that it was Snider, not Homer, who wanted Universe

Seriously, is there any doubt?

http://articles.phil...-ilya-bryzgalov

"Snider made it clear that he is the one who wants Ilya Bryzgalov in a Flyers uniform next season, setting in motion a directive at the end of last season that put general manager Paul Holmgren on a mission."

http://www.crossingb...-bryzgalov.html

"Ed Snider wants a goalie, and, dammit, he's going to do everything he can to get one. After a long flight from Moscow to New York yesterday, Ilya Bryzgalov flew to Philadelphia in style. Snider sent his jet, a twin-jet Gulfsteam IV (so says Flight Aware), to pick up Bryzgalov from JFK Airport"

Edited December 26, 2011 by JackStraw

[brelic]

I find the aarticle typical of the lazy reporting done in the "MSM" - it reads like they just cribbed some notes off this site.

For one, I love the concept of the backup being "more consistent" - having never played consistently...

Then there's the "deceptive" record - the facst are that prior to the Rangers both Bob and Bryz had given up four or more goals in 1/3 of their starts.

I still think the Flyers are tied to Bryzgalov like a pair of cement overshoes, but that's the bed they made for themselves.

I would have probably liked to see what the younger guy had in the tank, but Snider was cleary not happy with a young Russian and wanted an older one...

Maybe the best thing for Bryz is to play Bob until he's not the "consistent" goalie that everyone seems to think he is.

Then peope will start demanding that they play the backup...

I think a $51M mistake will be the end of Homer if they buy out Bryz. Only god is removing Snider (or Snider himself).

I guess the thing that bothers me the most is that they agreed to 9 years with a NMC. They basically gave Bob a big f**k you, slapped him in the face, and ensured that even if he becomes by far the best goaltender, there is absolutely nothing they can do with Bryz.

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Even when they *try* to address goaltending, they fail.

Let's assume Bryz turns it around and becomes an elite goaltender until he's 35. That's four solid seasons. Then he tanks. What then? You're still F**ked with his contract until he's 40. They will get out of it if they absolutey want to (through buy out, or benching until he demands to be traded, etc), but it will cost them dearly.

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

And after watching Moneyball yesterday, I can only hope they'll make that kind of movie in the future about hockey, and we get to see what really goes on behind closed doors.

[idahophilly]

So much hate thrown at a guy who has only played 1/3 of a season. I'm concerned about his play and the contract like most but this might still turn out really good. "Everyone's" been screaming for a big time goal tender for 20+ years and then they go ahead and get one and everyone is upset...

[brelic]

So much hate thrown at a guy who has only played 1/3 of a season. I'm concerned about his play and the contract like most but this might still turn out really good. "Everyone's" been screaming for a big time goal tender for 20+ years and then they go ahead and get one and everyone is upset...

Precisely because he has yet to show that he is a big time goaltender.

If his contract was for 1, 2, 3, even 4 years, I wouldn't even care.

[radoran]

So much hate thrown at a guy who has only played 1/3 of a season. I'm concerned about his play and the contract like most but this might still turn out really good. "Everyone's" been screaming for a big time goal tender for 20+ years and then they go ahead and get one and everyone is upset...

I certainly don't "hate" Bryzgalov. I do hate the 9-year, NMC deal.

I hope he can turn it around in the second half and don't really think Bob's "the answer" at this point...

We'll see.

[terp]

@JackStraw

I didn't realize he made it that explicit that he was behind it. I'm sure at least for the moment he wishes he had stayed the hell out of it. His assessment of Bryzgalov's personality seems especially off base now.

Seems like a good example of why it is a bad idea to make important decisions when in a heightened emotional state. The whole thing looks more like a bad impulse buy than a calculated decision.

[Vincent05]

@JackStraw

I didn't realize he made it that explicit that he was behind it. I'm sure at least for the moment he wishes he had stayed the hell out of it. His assessment of Bryzgalov's personality seems especially off base now.

Seems like a good example of why it is a bad idea to make important decisions when in a heightened emotional state. The whole thing looks more like a bad impulse buy than a calculated decision.

I don't exactly agree with you here. Every fan would love to have a owner like Snider, he spends money and do whatever it takes to get us the Cup year in and year out. Unfortunately the year he decided to go for a no.1 goalie wasn't that good as there was only Bryz and Vokoun. It's hard to say which would be better with this team now as we would never find out. Everyone was fine with the signing but the term is what pisses everyone off, the agent knew that he had the Flyers in his hand and demanded those terms and Snider just "had" to accept it. We just have to hope he turns it around starting now.

This had me thinking back when Clarke was gm. He had a choice of Cujo and Beezer, Clarke choosed the cheaper route and you remember what happened there. So maybe that had an effect on this decision. I can only guess. I don't blame Snider for what he tried to do as no one would know what happens in hindsite, the blame can go around the management team as they could've seen how the goalie market wasn't what it had been in the past 2 offseason.

Edited December 26, 2011 by Vincent05

[Mad Dog]

To the topic of this thread... I imagine the team is giving it some thoughts, but it's not that easy. There are multiple ramifications of making Bob #1, the most important is basically wasting the gigantic burden in the cap space resulting from Bryz' annual salary. You;ll have hard time justifying having a $6mil+ goalie sitting on the bench.

Secondly, are we really convinced Bob is at least no worse than Bryz? I am really not sure what the benefit of starting him more.

God, I respect Ed Snider for his passion and desire to win, but he really has to stop screwing with the team and sticking his nose into the team's affairs.

Edited December 26, 2011 by Mad Dog

[Vincent05]

Secondly, are we really convinced Bob is at least no worse than Bryz? I am really not sure what the benefit of starting him more.

Bob can atleast keep us in the game with a chance to win. With the rate Bryz going and if the team can't score we might not make the playoffs.