Harry Z's latest hit

[Polaris922]

He absolutely DOES leave his feet just prior to contact. THAT is the problem. If he'd just kept his skates on the ice it wouldn't be an issue at all. I understand the argument of saying was it necessary at that stage of the game, but if his feet don't leave the ice, and there is no penalty, that conversation never happens. If it were a clean hit, we wouldn't be saying much about it other than "Did you see that!?!"

Again I think the penalty covered it though. NO intent to injure... I'd like the league to leave him alone for it. They've been pretty strict on everybody so far though so I honestly don't know what to expect.

Edited March 3, 2013 by Polaris922

[TedZep]

I just can't get past this "time and place" element.

Harry Z took rad's stance to heart and took his shot in the middle of the game and STILL got a misconduct.

[peter puck]

I think he gets a fine probably in the 5000 dollar range. i think also hes told that next incident he will be treted as a repeat offender.

[Phillygrump]

If the guy he Harry Z hit was indeed injured, he should get 4 games. If not, then 2 at the most. The problem is two-fold for me, (1) he left his feet to hit the man at full speed (2) he was just let off the hook for a questionable hit last game.This one looked worse, even though the Sens player didn't have his head up, and left himself vulnerable to a potentially serious injury. If he's going to be a feared but good player (and I like that element to Harry's game) he has to be able to be more aware of time and situation for doing something like that. That major power play could have cost the Flyers in a close game today in a season where EVERY game means something.

That hit last game wasn't questionable. It was a knee-jerk call that always seems to happen when a player is hit in open ice anymore if the player stays down on the ice. A player gets hit and stays down, the team comes to defend him, now the whistles blow, then a penalty is called. Its automatic whether a hit is legal or not.

Harry Z's "knee on knee" hit was rescinded so it isn't in question anymore. The question was answered. It was not illegal. It should have no bearing on this hearing. This should be his first offense.

I don't expect it to go down that way because Shanny is just as much of a good old boy as Campbell was. He'll protect the guys he's supposed to (or former teammates) and make examples of the rest. I'm sure Harry Z gets a suspension.

[ruxpin]

He shouldn't have left his feet. What an awesome hit though However it was a bit unnescessary becasue the player was just inside the blue line...he couldn't score from there

Couldn't score from there? C'mon. When Bryz is in net, you can score from ANYWHERE.

--I honestly don't know how I feel about this one. Terrific hit, yeah. I know the other hit was expunged or whatever they called it, but it was just last game and has to be fresh in the mind of Shanahan. I've watched the replay several times. On the replay, he clearly leaves his feet, but it's difficult to tell if it's immediately before or on impact. At full speed, live, you get the impression he's launching into him. Standing alone, it might have been deemed a legal hit by the league. However, given the color of the jersey, the name on the back, and the fact he JUST got lucky last game (correctly, but lucky none the less), I say Z sits 3-5 games.

[Phillygrump]

To me he did not leave his feet until after the contact, then, just his back foot. The other guy was entering the zone with his head down (Dumb, Dumb). I hope the league doesn't penalize players for checking players with the puck who skate into their offensive zone with their heads down. If he gets suspended, I hope it is for unintentional contact to the head. But, basically that was a good hit.

I wonder if it would be advantageous to start disciplining guys for putting themselves in vulnerable positions like putting their heads down or doing a last minute turn into the boards not protecting themselves. Maybe it would be a way to discipline both parties involved.

You have to deter guys from playing irresponsibly whether as aggressors or putting themselves in dangerous positions by not playing responsibly.

Just a thought, not sure it would work.

[ruxpin]

Phone hearing tomorrow afternoon for Z.

PHONE hearing? That may bode well for no suspension, right? Maybe fine but no suspension typically in phone hearings, right?

[Phillygrump]

However, given the color of the jersey, the name on the back, and the fact he JUST got lucky last game (correctly, but lucky none the less), I say Z sits 3-5 games.

Kronwall has made a career of these kind of hits and never even had a hearing. Thats odd. I bet Harry Z gets suspended though on his first offense.

[Phillygrump]

PHONE hearing? That may bode well for no suspension, right? Maybe fine but no suspension typically in phone hearings, right?

Harry: Hello Brendan? Its Harry...

Shanny: Yeah Harrry, it'll be 5 games.

Harry: But this was my first...(click)

[ruxpin]

Kronwall has made a career of these kind of hits and never even had a hearing. Thats odd. I bet Harry Z gets suspended though on his first offense.

I would have guaranteed it until hf101's statement about the phone interview. For whatever reason that says to me he's going to get no suspension. Like I said in my post, I'm not sure how I feel about the merits of the actual hit. I could probably manage to argue either way. But given the way the league operates, I would have expected a handful of games.

[ruxpin]

Harry: Hello Brendan? Its Harry...

Shanny: Yeah Harrry, it'll be 5 games.

Harry: But this was my first...(click)

That was funny!

[canoli]

ENOUGH of this frame-by-frame B.S. please...just, stop it. New Rule: If you can't see the suspend-able offense in Real-Time = Clean Hit, hockey play...and no suspension.

The worst part about losing Harry (>= 2 games) will be hearing Monotone-Man-Shanahan explain why. God those videos are terrible.

(sorry bren, i know you're trying but get somebody else to do those segments willya please?)

[Spinorama]

Huh? You don't hit somebody because they are in a position to score. You hit them when they have or just rid themselves of the puck! It's called checking. It's called hockey.

AMEN!

[Jmdodgesrt4]

@Spinorama

May the hockey gods be with you!

[jammer2]

@canoli "ENOUGH of this frame-by-frame B.S. please...just, stop it. New Rule: If you can't see the suspend-able offense in Real-Time = Clean Hit, hockey play...and no suspension."

LOL, I agree can, problem is...the refs don't have the luxury of the instant replay, so the initial call may or may not be wrong, but Shanny does have the ability to frame by frame it, so inevitably, the frame by frame will/does come into the conversation....as much as I hate it.

[pensuck]

@canoli

Those video's remind me of a teacher i used to have zzzzzzzzzz....

How about putting a different team's ice girl on there to read each time. Or somebody hot. Sheena Parveen maybe? She's the channel 10 weather girl in Philly for u out of towners

[Poulin20]

@canoli

Sheena Parveen maybe? She's the channel 10 weather girl in Philly for u out of towners

She is also rumored to be dating our own Scottie Hartnell.

Edited March 3, 2013 by Poulin20

[Lunatic]

ENOUGH of this frame-by-frame B.S. please...just, stop it. New Rule: If you can't see the suspend-able offense in Real-Time = Clean Hit, hockey play...and no suspension.

The worst part about losing Harry (>= 2 games) will be hearing Monotone-Man-Shanahan explain why. God those videos are terrible.

(sorry bren, i know you're trying but get somebody else to do those segments willya please?)

I could not agree with you more. When I think about Z's hit, there is no consensus as to whether it was 'clean or dirty", sending it to the league office is taking hockey from a fast, hard-hitting game to a micro managed mess. The game is played in real time, not frame by frame. I really think that Buttman, et. al would rather have fancy skating wusses, with their heads down, dancing through the middle of the ice unimpeded. As for the comments about Z's previous hit, that he should not have been made so late in a game that was settled, well that's BS. When you are on the ice, be ready to get hit anytime, not just the PC time.

[Lunatic]

Unfortunately for that hit Z may never play for the Flyers again. They will send him down to avoid the loss of a player.

[trevluk]

Under the auspice of him almost being a repeat offender? Or is it the sweater thing again.

Based on that it was an illegal hit with initial impact to the head. He was a split second early on his delivery. If he waits that fraction of a second then he never leaves his feet and delivers a devasting shoulder to the chest in what would have been the cleanest, hardest hit of the year. Instead it was an illegal hit and worthy of at least a game, if not 2.

[canoli]

problem is...the refs don't have the luxury of the instant replay, so the initial call may or may not be wrong, but Shanny does have the ability to frame by frame it, so inevitably, the frame by frame will/does come into the conversation....as much as I hate it.

yeah they can review certain goal-line situations (not all of them) but a controversial hit, one that maybe only 1 official feels deserves a Game Misconduct (and automatic review by Shanahan's office) ... they can't take a minute to look at that again?

The stakes are too high - possible suspension, "repeat-offender" reputation - to let some [hopefully] disinterested party make the final decision.

To me it's worth pausing the game so the official who saw the hit in real-time can take another look.

[radoran]

yeah they can review certain goal-line situations (not all of them) but a controversial hit, one that maybe only 1 official feels deserves a Game Misconduct (and automatic review by Shanahan's office) ... they can't take a minute to look at that again?

The stakes are too high - possible suspension, "repeat-offender" reputation - to let some [hopefully] disinterested party make the final decision.

To me it's worth pausing the game so the official who saw the hit in real-time can take another look.

The league is "erring on the side of caution" - and anyone following the NFLPA action regarding concussions can see why.

First of all, the official was looking *right at* the play. On the replay you can see him with a direct line of vision to Z leaving his feet. It was somewhat borderline, but those calls are going to get called in this league as they call it today (like it or not).

I argued vehemently at the time that Downie's hit on McAmmond was a legal hit, for example, but that cost him 25 games anyway. "Making an argument" that it is a legal hit is no longer the guideline (for better or worse).

And, yes, wearing orange does give you a bigger target. It's not "fair" and it "shouldn't be" but it is.

Players - and fans - need to know and accept this.

[canoli]

"Making an argument" that it is a legal hit is no longer the guideline (for better or worse).

I guess that's so but now we're in George Orwell's "1984" territory aren't we? I mean WTF can you trust?

We have rules, we have guidelines...we've got officials to police the action...we give them power to hand out discipline, even to remove a player from the game... And then all of that is superseded by a [supposedly] disinterested 3rd-party up in Toronto who decides the ultimate fate of the actors in question. It's a lousy system.

[radoran]

I guess that's so but now we're in George Orwell's "1984" territory aren't we? I mean WTF can you trust?

We have rules, we have guidelines...we've got officials to police the action...we give them power to hand out discipline, even to remove a player from the game... And then all of that is superseded by a [supposedly] disinterested 3rd-party up in Toronto who decides the ultimate fate of the actors in question. It's a lousy system.

Well, the point is that the league is going to go with a stricter interpretation of the rules more often than not. They have to. They lost Lindros to concussion. They risk losing Crosby every time he steps on the ice. And the situation is no different for the vast majority of players.

Players need to know these "borderline" hits are going to go against them far more often than they will go for them. Players need to make that adjustment. This isn't my opinion. This is the fact of how the game is called - like it or not.

Skating "whistle to whistle" and "making an impression" with big hits runs that risk. Again, players need to know this and react accordingly - otherwise the "big impression is a guy making a bad hit against the Pens, sitting for two games, coming back with a questionable hit against the Caps and then this against the Sens. Three games. Three borderline hits. Three penalties (one rescinded). Two power plays against quality opponents. One coming *immediately* after a "settle down" timeout. One game having to play shorthanded for more than two periods.

Clearly, there are still big hits in this game. But the NFL, for example, doesn't allow you to submarine wide receivers in the air going for balls. They don't allow horse collar tackles. Both of those things were legal for decades in the league and are not now.

"Nothing to see here, move along please" isn't the reaction Z needs. Rein it in, know when to make your hits *and know how to make them*.

[fan4ever]

Maybe Zac needs to sit Z down and explain it all to him. I think Zac has gotten it!!!!!