Updated stats... and Brandon Sutter

[Polaris922]

Crosby leading the league in points...

Letang leading all defensemen in points...

But how about Brandon Sutter? The two goal game last night brings him to 6/4/10 for the season, but more importantly for your third line center... he's a plus 8. Are we missing Jordan Staal? I don't think so. Yes Staal has more offensive flair... but he's only 4/11/15 and minus 2.... Sutter is simply better defensively than Staal is. And that's what we want in our number three center.. somebody who can shut down the opposing stars. Sutter has done quite a nice job at it. The longer this goes the more I like this trade. And we haven't even seen Dumoulin or Pouliot yet... great job Ray Shero.

[flyerrod]

Crosby leading the league in points...

Letang leading all defensemen in points...

If your goalies (I realize it was the back up last night) continue to leave in goals at their current rate, you are going to need every player on your team in the top 20 for points to be contenders. That game had to be one heck of a roller coaster ride for either a pen or habs fan.

Defensively, I whole heartedly agree that Sutter is light years better than Staal. Considering Price's .806 save percentage last night and 2 of Sutter's goals being against that, i am not ready to proclaim his offensive prowess just yet but as a general rule, consistent offense is not the job of a third line center. Being a plus eight speaks not only about him but his line mates too. I think in the long run, you are correct and it will show that Pittsburgh got the better end of that deal.

[nossagog]

Crosby is playing like the old Crosby again at long last. So much for the haters earlier in the season when he had a slow start saying his career is over. Not only the points, but he's back on in the faceoff circle. I was a little disappointed that Neal was change off of his line last night, the only line that looked good the previous two games was Neal-Crosby-Kunitz, but Dupers played pretty good too.

Really good to see Sutter step up to the second line and produce with Malkin out of the linep. He set up some good chanced also. At 24, he's also going to just improve with age, and he's shown that he can be a number two center. He was like 60+ percent in the faceoff circle also last night.

Letang has been a conundrum, he just doesn't seem to be quite there on the power play, but is producing 5v5. I'd love to see someone like Paul Coffey come in and work with the PP unit, and Letang in particular.That's where he need to improve.

Good to see Eaton in the lineup last night. In a game where the Pens defense played pretty badly, Eaton actually looked pretty darn solid last night, and had almost 20 minutes of ice time. The time on the ice surprised me.

Felt bad for both Vokoun and Price last night, both acted like a deer in the headlights last night. Since its a stats thread, Vokoun is up to a 3.6 GAA and down to .883 SV Pct now, not very good for your backup, those kinds of stats are why Johnson is not here this year. Partly it is the close in rebounds he's giving up, but a big thing also is where in the world is the defense to clear these. The three game road trip, most of the goals scored against were within 8 feet of the net. Gotta start protecting close in better, and planting some people on their butts that are camping in front of the goal.

[flyercanuck]

@nossagog

I'm not sure Paul Coffey would be your guy to coach pp. I mean how does someone with his God-given skills teach that?

"OK, go out there and skate faster than everybody else"

[flyercanuck]

@Polaris922

As long as Letang is on the ice, I figure my team has as good a chance of scoring as yours. The guy is a great skater and puck mover. But his hockey IQ is average at best as is his defence. With the above mentioned skills, playing on a pp with arguably the 2 best players in the league, he should get his points.But I've seen enough of Letang that when the other team scores, he's usually involved in that play as well. Last night he had 4 points, 3 at even strength. And he was a minus 2. So he was on for at least 5 Hab goals. Awesome defenceman. We all saw his brilliance last postseason. (I haven't even mentioned his embellishments)

Sutter is likely more suited to the 3rd line role. May end up a good trade by Shero, but picking Staal in the first place 2nd overall wasn't exactly genius was it? Toews went next. Giroux 22nd. I'm no Kessel fan but how many would he score on Crosbys wing? Better than Taking Erik Johnson 1st overall though.

[hf101]

Although Letang had 4 assists yesterday he still was a -2.

In the past 3 games Vokoun and Fleury have given up 16 goals.

Poor goaltending or a lack of defensive effort minimizing scoring chances? The Canadiens had nearly 40 shots on Vokoun.

[jammer2]

@Polaris922 " Sutter is simply better defensively than Staal is."

Well, I'm very iffy on that statement. I will go back to saying what I said all along, Jordan Stall, at this point of his career is physically more developed, more of a full grown man than Sutter. The key...Jordan can impose his will on opponents, and physically stop them from scoring by hitting, getting his big frame in the way etc. When you have basically the same work ethic, which is what I believe we have with Stall vs Sutter, the edge goes to the bigger man with the better wheels, who can get to the spot quicker and take the man off the puck more effectively....that man is Stall.

[Polaris922]

If your goalies (I realize it was the back up last night) continue to leave in goals at their current rate, you are going to need every player on your team in the top 20 for points to be contenders. That game had to be one heck of a roller coaster ride for either a pen or habs fan.

Defensively, I whole heartedly agree that Sutter is light years better than Staal. Considering Price's .806 save percentage last night and 2 of Sutter's goals being against that, i am not ready to proclaim his offensive prowess just yet but as a general rule, consistent offense is not the job of a third line center. Being a plus eight speaks not only about him but his line mates too. I think in the long run, you are correct and it will show that Pittsburgh got the better end of that deal.

I agree Sutter isn't some great offensive diamond in the rough. I'm just really pleased with his efforts and production to date. I certainly wouldn't expect his goal production to stay ahead of Staal's but having said that I still believe Staal was the most overrated Penguin in recent years. If Sutter continues his defensive play and doesn't score another goal all year I'd still feel we won that trade as it addressed a need for us in a high energy defense first third center.

[Polaris922]

@Polaris922

As long as Letang is on the ice, I figure my team has as good a chance of scoring as yours. The guy is a great skater and puck mover. But his hockey IQ is average at best as is his defence. With the above mentioned skills, playing on a pp with arguably the 2 best players in the league, he should get his points.But I've seen enough of Letang that when the other team scores, he's usually involved in that play as well. Last night he had 4 points, 3 at even strength. And he was a minus 2. So he was on for at least 5 Hab goals. Awesome defenceman. We all saw his brilliance last postseason. (I haven't even mentioned his embellishments)

Sutter is likely more suited to the 3rd line role. May end up a good trade by Shero, but picking Staal in the first place 2nd overall wasn't exactly genius was it? Toews went next. Giroux 22nd. I'm no Kessel fan but how many would he score on Crosbys wing? Better than Taking Erik Johnson 1st overall though.

Agree Toews > Staal by a long shot. Giroux was a gem find for you guys if he's ever able to get back to last year's form. Not sure if Kessel would trump Staal or not... Two underachievers in my eyes.

Disagree whole heartedly on your appraisal of Letang. Yes he's a great offensive talent, but he has a great hockey IQ and defense most of the time. He does get trapped a lot in the offensive zone but that's entirely because its his role to press the attack. Most of the time he uses his outstanding speed to get back and defend, and he's a bit physical, and a lot positional. The man is outstanding on defense when he's not caught up ice. The recent games our entire defensive corps seems to have crapped the bed. I dunno why. Orpik in particular has been horrid, and I'm wondering if he's playing injured since going off the ice a few games ago with a serious limp. Our goaltending has been rebounds to the slot central, and our defense non-existent immediately around the net.

They'll fix that. Then we'll see where Letang ends up. Right now it's only second PP because Paul Martin has been stellar this season. Until sitting out this last game anyway! Lol

[Polaris922]

@Polaris922 " Sutter is simply better defensively than Staal is."

Well, I'm very iffy on that statement. I will go back to saying what I said all along, Jordan Stall, at this point of his career is physically more developed, more of a full grown man than Sutter. The key...Jordan can impose his will on opponents, and physically stop them from scoring by hitting, getting his big frame in the way etc. When you have basically the same work ethic, which is what I believe we have with Stall vs Sutter, the edge goes to the bigger man with the better wheels, who can get to the spot quicker and take the man off the puck more effectively....that man is Stall.

I agree Staal SHOULD be the better of the two because of his size. Problem is your statement about work ethic is anything but truth. Staal was lazy as hell on defense, and proof of that lies in the playoff series against your boys last year. Five Flyer goals in the first three games alone can be directly blamed on Staal not doing his job. He was the laziest third line center I've ever seen, and I think it's because he didn't want to be third line. Sorry bud, but he sucked at defense, regardless of the token Selke nomination a few years ago. Once that happened his effort went away and it was like he just expected it to happen FOR him rather than BY him.