Please just buyout Bryz already

[canoli]

you know Rad if somehow I wasn't aware this was a Flyers' forum I could read that and think you were talking about Buffalo. Or Florida. Or Carolina. Or the Leafs or the Isles.

I might say the same about MadDog's first paragraph too (but he named names so I can't!) - I mean are we really that bad of a team? I don't think so. Compared to who? Chi who's loaded at fwd, has a healthy solid D and a goalie tandem that's clicking perfectly? yeah. But to most of the NHL we're always in the handful at the top. This year we've taken a step back results-wise but it's not a drastically under- or overperforming team. A couple goals either way and we're 5th or 6th in the East instead of 9th.

You guys talk about "egregious breakdowns" as if they're something unique to the Flyers. We all know they're common. Our D isn't all nobodies like Gervais it's got three legit 1/2 guys and a handful of take-em-or-leave-him types - about average talent-wise.

[radoran]

Absolutely, canoli.

But we're also talking about goalies as if others don't give up soft goals or are victimized by a Rick Nash on a breakaway.

And, yes, there are questions surrounding the "brain trusts" on other teams. Just like there are questions surrounding the goaltending on other teams.

The Rangers have scored more than two goals 13 times this season.

Their goalie has a GAA of 2.27.

The Rangers have 11 wins.

"What's wrong with Lundqvist?"

[flyercanuck]

@radoran

Ya, if the Rangers ever offered Lundquist to us for Bryz, I'd have to think about it.

[flyercanuck]

OK done

[radoran]

@radoran

Ya, if the Rangers ever offered Lundquist to us for Bryz, I'd have to think about it.

Well, there were certainly Rangers fans who were "down" on Lundqvist at the start of the season. Wouldn't surprise me if there were a few who were advocating dealing him at the deadline to pickup draft picks or a stud defenseman.

And, you wouldn't need to think about it. Bryz would.

The "brain trust" who you apparently think will get it right next time, gave him a NMC with that ridiculous contract.

[flyercanuck]

That "I" think will get it right next time? What?

We haven't had a goalie since the 80s, why would I think that would change? I'd just prefer one that doesn't make 10X what he should be making, and signed 10X longer than he should be signed.

[lespauljr2006]

Bryz has 2 major problems with his game.

1 being that he cannot handle the puck or he is afraid to do so.

2 being that he cannot poke check.

Another major flaw is his lack of aggressiveness when taking on shooters past the circles.

Look at Nash goal last night and he was still in the paint when the d men had the other guys. Yeah it was a good shot but another foot out and it is a big save..

There is no way this team is going anyplace with Bryz in net. Period, with or without Yoda and Darth Vader on his stupid mask..

[Phlyer1]

Not sure this team would go anywhere with Henrik etc in goal. Once Voracheck and Symonds go off the ice the scoring chances drop to 5%

[radoran]

That "I" think will get it right next time? What?

We haven't had a goalie since the 80s, why would I think that would change? I'd just prefer one that doesn't make 10X what he should be making, and signed 10X longer than he should be signed.

Asked, argued and answered.

If we didnt know the terms of the deal would that affect your opinion?

If there was no salary cap - would it matter?

[flyercanuck]

@radoran

I didn't like the signing because i didn't like the goalie. When I heard the terms I thought one of the worst signings of alltime. If there was no cap the length would still be horrible, and so would the goalie.

I'll say it once more, he's slow, can't catch, doesn't control rebounds, may be the worst puckhandler we've ever had (THAT in itself is incredible) has Hartnell-like balance, plays small,...what's to like?

[brelic]

@radoran

I didn't like the signing because i didn't like the goalie. When I heard the terms I thought one of the worst signings of alltime. If there was no cap the length would still be horrible, and so would the goalie.

I'll say it once more, he's slow, can't catch, doesn't control rebounds, may be the worst puckhandler we've ever had (THAT in itself is incredible) has Hartnell-like balance, plays small,...what's to like?

Let's say we agree with all of that. Bryz is slow, can't catch, can't control rebounds, and is the worst puckhandler we've ever had.

Would you also agree that Leighton is a better tender? He had better (or equal) numbers than Bryz when he was our starter. ANd he brought us to within one game of the SC, pitching 3 shutouts in one series. What about Esche? He also had better numbers than Bryz.

And if Bryz is so bad, do you think the others - Niitty, Bob, Boosh, Emery, Biron, etc - are better than him as well? None of those guys had better numbers than Bryz.

Maybe it's a grass is greener thing.

Leighton was on a Laviolette-coached team in the season Stevens was fired. There was a lot of his influence left over that focused more on defense. Same with Esche under Hitch and Stevens.

So if we agree that Bryz is so bad, then how did he perform so well - Vezina-worthy - in Phoenix?

I don't want to keep kicking a dead horse... but it's just so fun

[radoran]

@radoran

I didn't like the signing because i didn't like the goalie. When I heard the terms I thought one of the worst signings of alltime. If there was no cap the length would still be horrible, and so would the goalie.

I'll say it once more, he's slow, can't catch, doesn't control rebounds, may be the worst puckhandler we've ever had (THAT in itself is incredible) has Hartnell-like balance, plays small,...what's to like?

You'll recall I hated the amount and the term as well.

You'll recall that I am on board with buying the team out from under the contract.

Now...

1) they get rid of the guy who can't stop a determined 3-on-1 from a mite team

2) they sign...?

3) profit.

Without the "out" of the compliance buyout, they would not even be considering buying out Bryz. They have hired Leighton, re-hired Boucher and dealt Bobrovsky. They didn't go after Ellis, didn't go after Vokoun...

who's available after this season? Backstrom (maybe), Khabibulin (Cup winner!), Nabokov, Howard (maybe), Smith (yay! another product of the Phoenix system!), Theodore, Mason, Garaon, Labarbera, Emery, Budaj, Ellis...

The grass really isn't that much greener...

Do they go with the re-tread of Emery (maybe they can keep Boosh or Leighton as backup! joy!)? Aside from that (and maybe Backstrom or Howard if their teams drop them) I don't see anyone "better" than Bryz to bring in. And I think that Emery is a risk and is unproven as an every day starter post-injury.

Now, 2014? Lundqvist, Miller, Kiprusoff, Hiller, Halak, Dubnyk, Crawford, Vokoun, Elliot...

Again, why I think buying him out after 13-14 is more likely. Take a run at either Halak or Elliot. Maybe Hiller (pending resolution of his health issues). Heck, if we're "lucky" Buffalo will sour on Miller...

All that changes if they trade for Bernier - which they very well might. But I still see this team riding the "hey, we get into the playoffs and anything can happen" mantra. And I don't see them being definitely "out of it" by the deadline.

[DaGreatGazoo]

This may be overstating the obvious...but is it the braintrust, or the owner? I think we are all in agreement that Bryz was signed, in VERY large part, because the owner opened his mouth after the playoff fiasco 2 years ago. I think we are also in agreement that Richards, and quite possibly Carter, were traded because the owner was fed up with their off-ice antics-missing charity functions, missing team sponsored functions, among other things. Snider forcing Homer's hand on those trades could certainly explain the long-term deals, and then the sudden 180 to remove them from the team.

The Flyers "buy a team" mentality goes back to Clarke, and was passed on to Homer. I am by NO MEANS, giving Homer a pass for some of the big screw ups over the last several years, but would a change in GM, make things better? I honestly don't know the answer to that, because in the end, the GM is going to do what Ed approves/advocates.

[flyercanuck]

@brelic

Bryz certainly hasn't had the help that leighton had on that run. Or that Esche enjoyed. But he is what he is. And I don't like what I see, At least when Bob was here you saw athleticism, reflexes, a positive attitude. Upside. And a reasonable payscale and term.

[flyercanuck]

@radoran

I get theres no clear cut #1 goalie waiting to sign with the Flyers. But with this young team, how about having at least a prospect developing somewhere that you can bring along with all these other young guys. When our nucleus of forwards hits their prime, Bryz will be 35-6. I can't imagine how bad he'll be by then. And anyone whos played sports knows what its like playing with a wacko like him.

[radoran]

@radoran

I get theres no clear cut #1 goalie waiting to sign with the Flyers. But with this young team, how about having at least a prospect developing somewhere that you can bring along with all these other young guys. When our nucleus of forwards hits their prime, Bryz will be 35-6. I can't imagine how bad he'll be by then. And anyone whos played sports knows what its like playing with a wacko like him.

Again, they have to take the out given to them by the compliance buyouts.

Pretend we're finished debating that. Because we pretty much are.

Now, what's next? there is no "prospect developing somewhere" and this team seems incapable of developing such a prospecct anyway.

Barring a trade that would cost some of the young core, the options are free agents. That's the reality.

And as I read it, the FA crop is much better after 2014 than it is after this season.

"Buying out Bryz now" is a fun thing to say. It's certainly not practical and it certainly won't make the team better immediately.

[brelic]

@brelic

Bryz certainly hasn't had the help that leighton had on that run. Or that Esche enjoyed. But he is what he is. And I don't like what I see, At least when Bob was here you saw athleticism, reflexes, a positive attitude. Upside. And a reasonable payscale and term.

Some interesting random stats.

Of all the Flyers goaltenders who have played at least 50 games (my arbitrary cutoff), Bryz has the 5th best GAA (2.53). He's behind Cechmanek (1.96), Beezer (2.19), Parent (2.42), and Boucher (2.50).

Bryz has the 4th best save % (.908). He's behind Cechmanek (.923), Biron (.915), and Bobrovsky (.909). Leighton is ahead of him too (.910) but - surprisingly - has only played 33 regular season games for us. I thought it was much more than that.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/PHI/goalies.html

[brelic]

Again, they have to take the out given to them by the compliance buyouts.

Pretend we're finished debating that. Because we pretty much are.

Now, what's next? there is no "prospect developing somewhere" and this team seems incapable of developing such a prospecct anyway.

Barring a trade that would cost some of the young core, the options are free agents. That's the reality.

And as I read it, the FA crop is much better after 2014 than it is after this season.

"Buying out Bryz now" is a fun thing to say. It's certainly not practical and it certainly won't make the team better immediately.

Stolarz is looking pretty good.

[radoran]

Stolarz is looking pretty good.

For a guy who's entry level contract starts next season, sure.

That said, would the folks who are all over Bryz at this point be "happy" with a guy who has yet to ever play a minute of professional hockey at even the AHL level?

Is that an upgrade? Is that even an option for next season?

My point is not *whether* to buy Bryz out, but *when*.

[brelic]

For a guy who's entry level contract starts next season, sure.

That said, would the folks who are all over Bryz at this point be "happy" with a guy who has yet to ever play a minute of professional hockey at even the AHL level?

Is that an upgrade? Is that even an option for next season?

My point is not *whether* to buy Bryz out, but *when*.

Oh, I know. I didn't mean for next season.. but he looks like he has potential to be a homegrown guy if we do it the right way. He should play professional next year in the AHL. Might even get an invite to the rookie camp. Realistically, he wouldn't be ready until at least the 2014-2015 season, preferably as a backup.

[canoli]

"Buying out Bryz now" is a fun thing to say. It's certainly not practical and it certainly won't make the team better immediately.

It's always "practical" to get rid of a nutjob - especially a nutjob who can't play his position. So okay, "can't play" is overstating it a bit, maybe a lot. Bryzgalov has had *some* success, sure. But there's not a lot of debate on his skill set - it's pretty mediocre (at best).

As far as getting rid of him to "make the team better immediately" I'm not so sure it wouldn't.

It's kinda like what FC said a few posts back

And anyone whos played sports knows what its like playing with a wacko like him.

Is he the poison he was last year - or "distraction" if you like that word better? No. He's obviously concentrating more on his game, more on his performance...which is great.

But he's ...just ...not ...a ...very ...good ...goaltender. Come on. Anyone can see that even it's your first time watching the game (never mind playing). Most nights it's dead obvious the guy at the other end is better than Bryzgalov. Hell I watched Varlamov last night (and Ray Emery set a new NHL record) and even Varly looked more capable, more in control than "Bryz" ever does.

So I don't know how impractical it is to 1) Get rid of this clown and then, 2) Grab ANYONE (within reason of course, obviously the Flyers wouldn't re-hire somebody like...oh I don't know...Michael Leighton for instance :wacko: ...anyway, preferably a young guy who's shown some promise. And if a guy like that is unavailable or costs too much then go after any one of the guys you named earlier...guys you claim are no better than Bryzgalov (Garon, Backstrom, Howard etc.) but that I'd argue are obviously better than Bryzgalov.

Edited March 7, 2013 by canoli

[radoran]

It's always "practical" to get rid of a nutjob - especially a nutjob who can't play his position. So okay, "can't play" is overstating it a bit, maybe a lot. Bryzgalov has had *some* success, sure. But there's not a lot of debate on his skill set - it's pretty mediocre (at best).

As far as getting rid of him to "make the team better immediately" I'm not so sure it wouldn't.

It's kinda like what FC said a few posts back

Is he the poison he was last year - or "distraction" if you like that word better? No. He's obviously concentrating more on his game, more on his performance...which is great.

But he's ...just ...not ...a ...very ...good ...goaltender. Come on. Anyone can see that even it's your first time watching the game (never mind playing) it's usually quite obvious the guy at the other end is better than Bryzgalov. Hell I watched Varlamov last night (and Ray Emery set a new NHL record) and even Varly looked more capable, more in control than "Bryz" ever does.

So I don't know how impractical it is to 1) Get rid of this clown and then, 2) Grab ANYONE (within reason...obviously the Flyers would never re-hire somebody like...oh I don't know...Michael Leighton for instance!) preferably someone young - early 20s - who's shown some promise. And if a guy like that is unavailable or costs too much then go after any one of the guys you named earlier...guys who you say are not any better than Bryzgalov but I'd argue are much better than Bryzgalov.

I would bet a lot of dough that - if it were possible to find out the truth - I'd bet a bundle that the skaters would be happier, relieved actually to play in front of someone else. Almost anyone else.

Well, they do have a record-setting goaltender they could play immediately. He's lost the only start they played him in , 4-1 with a .893 SV%.

And they have a record-setting goaltender that they are overplaying.

And they have a goaltender with "Cup Finals experience" - he lost his only start, 5-1 with an .808 SV%.

I realize that's the "almost anyone else" in your comment - but it's also the three goalies the team chose.

I listed the available goalies out there. None seem to fit your description - for next season.

But I think Halak or Elliot after 13-14 certainly does.

I don't see the Flyers tanking next season just to buy out Bryz before they have to. Your mileage may vary. I'll take that wager.

Essentially, in my view (barring a trade) that's their "plan."

And having a Halak or Elliot with, perhaps, a Stolarz developing in the 14-15 season sounds like a better "plan" than this team has had since... reacquiring Parent?

[flyercanuck]

@radoran

Ya, I don't need him bought out now. I just need him bought out.

[canoli]

man you really seriously hate Ray Emery don't you? Jeez...

Emery's accomplishment is for real. 10 straight wins to start a season...and he did it as a backup no less. You can question his ability to win as a starter if you like but apparently people "questioning his ability" isn't stopping him from winning hockey games.

As opposed to "Bryz" who doesn't exactly rise to the challenge of pressure...

edit: or when he does it's a year later...!

Edited March 7, 2013 by canoli

[flyercanuck]

@brelic

Stolarz has put up some great numbers on a stacked team. I mean stacked. They are head and shoulders above anyone else in the O. Good for him though, I hope he's for real. I've seen Zadorov (one of his Dmen) rated very highly for this draft. I think the team he's on, and his freakish size give him an unfair advantage that will cut him back a few notches in the NHL. I could be wrong. Domi is sort of the same but has great great hands. He didn't get them from his father.