Please just buyout Bryz already

[canoli]

Oh no...there's another Domi in the ranks...? ya mean...son of ....oh god i don't even wanna think about it!

[brelic]

@brelic

Stolarz has put up some great numbers on a stacked team. I mean stacked. They are head and shoulders above anyone else in the O. Good for him though, I hope he's for real. I've seen Zadorov (one of his Dmen) rated very highly for this draft. I think the team he's on, and his freakish size give him an unfair advantage that will cut him back a few notches in the NHL. I could be wrong. Domi is sort of the same but has great great hands. He didn't get them from his father.

Thanks for the scouting report! I hope he's for real. We could use a homegrown kid in net.

[flyercanuck]

@canoli

His kid is one highly skilled mofo.

[flyercanuck]

Thanks for the scouting report! I hope he's for real. We could use a homegrown kid in net.

All 3 Knights goalies have great stats. The positive is Stolarz has the best, though he's played the least games.

[radoran]

man you really seriously hate Ray Emery don't you? Jeez...

Emery's accomplishment is for real. 10 straight wins to start a season...and he did it as a backup no less. You can question his ability to win as a starter if you like but apparently people "questioning his ability" isn't stopping him from winning hockey games.

As opposed to "Bryz" who doesn't exactly rise to the challenge of pressure...

edit: or when he does it's a year later...!

Why do I "hate" Emery? I just don't see him as "the answer" as a starting goaltender for the Flyers.

Emery is a competent backup on a hot team who has had a nice start to a season. He wasn't even considered the 'Hawks' starter - and still isn't.

But this is a goalie who hasn't played in more than 34 games since 2006-2007. Last year, when he appeared in 34 games, he was 2.81/.900.

By way of comparison, the season before Martin Biron was traded to the Flyers, he was in 31 games with 2.88/.905.

Bryz hasn't started less than 55 games since 2007-2008 and last year was 2.48/.909

That's not "hate" - that's "analysis."

And making snap decisions on goalies is exactly what got the Flyers to sign Bryz.

[brelic]

It's always "practical" to get rid of a nutjob - especially a nutjob who can't play his position. So okay, "can't play" is overstating it a bit, maybe a lot. Bryzgalov has had *some* success, sure. But there's not a lot of debate on his skill set - it's pretty mediocre (at best).

But he's ...just ...not ...a ...very ...good ...goaltender. Come on. Anyone can see that even it's your first time watching the game (never mind playing). Most nights it's dead obvious the guy at the other end is better than Bryzgalov.

Just out of curiosity, how does a mediocre goaltender get to be the 5th (GAA) and 4th (Sv %) best in the 46 year history of the Flyers? I know stats don't tell the entire story, and the median/mean of certain stats shifts up or down over time. Some eras had more offense, some less.

I really don't think he's the problem at all. Last year was a little easier to say he was. And even then, it was only for the first few months of the season. After Christmas, he settled down, and posted close to his career best, and certainly in line with his career average. And all this on a new team, with an offense-first focus.

Maybe he's looked tired the past week or two, but I think it's fair to say that we won at least 3 games that I can remember only because Bryz kept up his end of the bargain and gave the rest of the loons in front of him time to settle down and win the game.

3 out of 24 games. That would be 'stealing' more than 10% of the games. THe flip side is that he had stinkers too - but all goaltenders do. Lundy has had some stinkers this year. So has Price.

In the end, I think Bryz's contract is the problem, not him.

[Bakanekimiwa]

yeah this is the crux of the bisquit (as Zappa said) right here. All those coulda-should-woulda moves have one thing in common, which many of you have noted for years: We're all about Big Splash FA Signings and the appearance of a Win Now mentality. It's only an appearance of "win now" because obviously Pronger can't skate all 60 minutes, he can't play goal and he won't last more than a few years at best.

I was all for bringing him over despite the cost (though not despite the stupid contract) and hindsight doesn't convince me it was a bad move. Unfortunately it wasn't an outlier or an aberration of an otherwise solid strategy - it was the strategy itself!

the irony, and consequent hilarity, of this entire thread is that the main reason the flyers are in this pickle is because of the FA signings and bad trades that people in this thread are advocating more of. there is much bigger trouble for this organization that an albatross of a goalie contract or a 35+ contract that they can't get rid of.

we have nothing in the cupboard as they say. we have the worst prospect pool of any organization in the league and people would still advocate a huge trade to get this guy or that guy. we have NO pieces to trade!

the only way we get out of this mess that we're in is to sit back and be patient. it's going to take many years, but they haven't even started yet. we need a management that builds a team from the ground up and we obviously don't have that right now.

tl:dr: we're gonna suck for a loong loong time.

[brelic]

the irony, and consequent hilarity, of this entire thread is that the main reason the flyers are in this pickle is because of the FA signings and bad trades that people in this thread are advocating more of. there is much bigger trouble for this organization that an albatross of a goalie contract or a 35+ contract that they can't get rid of.

we have nothing in the cupboard as they say. we have the worst prospect pool of any organization in the league and people would still advocate a huge trade to get this guy or that guy. we have NO pieces to trade!

the only way we get out of this mess that we're in is to sit back and be patient. it's going to take many years, but they haven't even started yet. we need a management that builds a team from the ground up and we obviously don't have that right now.

tl:dr: we're gonna suck for a loong loong time.

The shame of it is that two years in a row, we had a shot at a great defensive prospect in the draft, and chose centers both times. Like radoran has said many times, how can we expect the same people that got us into this mess to get us out of it? They haven't changed their strategy in decades.

[Mad Dog]

@Bakanekimiwa

Well said. The only point I woudl like to make is as I mentioned to Rad, these are two separate issues: we *do* have a problem in net and we *do* have a generally bad product that this GM put on the ice. But the thread is about buying out Bryzgalov...

This is all a product of an incredibly incompetent GM who spent years to put the team in the predicament it is right now. I will certainly give him a pass for Pronger as nobody could have predicted that. Other than that, the guy is as clueless as they come. And the last summer was just an exlamation point, a logical conclusion if you will.

I still think Giroux, Couturier, B Shenn, Voaracek, and maybe Simmonds, is a solid foudation to build on. But you are 100% correct - we have zero pieces to trade. And our not-so-brilliant GM made sure of that. It really is sad and disgusting...

Can we "buy out" Holmgren?

Edited March 7, 2013 by Mad Dog

[AndyS]

To be honest, I was really happy with the Flyers acquiring Bryz and signing him long-term. Having watched him playing in Anaheim & PHX, I thought we had finally found our goalie.

I think he needs a far more capable back-up. He is playing too much & is wearing down.

My main concern with him (besides playing too much) is that the Flyers seem to have gone out of their way to make him feel secure in his starter's role by giving him less-than-capable back-ups. If a guy can't play well because he's worried about his back-up being too good, how in the world is he possibly capable of winning a Stanley Cup or being a real difference maker???

If that is really how the organization feels about Bryz, then buy him out tomorrow (I know, next Summer) & trade for Bernier or someone else ASAP.

[Mad Dog]

Like radoran has said many times, how can we expect the same people that got us into this mess to get us out of it? They haven't changed their strategy in decades.

They can't and they won't. I give Clarke tons of credit for at least being a man enough to step aside after he realized he was in over his head as a GM. Holmgren most likely won't do it. And Snider will continue singing the same tune: we are behind our GM, he is doing a terrific job, blah blah blah.... Like I said - DESGUSTING.

Edited March 7, 2013 by Mad Dog

[flyercanuck]

@Bakanekimiwa

Been preaching patience for ten years on this and philly.com. Bryz was brought in to win now. Which made zero sense if you were trading Carter and Richards for youth. I'm all for sticking with the young guys, hopefully talking Briere and Timonen to waive the NTCs.

As for the cupboard being bare, maybe it's not great prospect-wise (though we have laughton) but I'll put our group of young forwards up against anyones in the league, including Edmontons.

[jammer2]

@brelic "In the end, I think Bryz's contract is the problem, not him"

Strongly disagree here. The contract does not help Bryz, but he *is* the problem. The guy with the worst rebound control in NHL history does indeed suck donkey balls. The other thing, the 4th highest save percentage in Flyer history, .910, that is pretty embarassing. Don't know where it stacks up against other teams top goalies/stats but .910 is just slightly above average, not anything at all to brag about. So that stat is more of a condemnation of our weak goaltending throughout the years, rather than a compliment to Bryz....at least, that's the way I see it.

[brelic]

Strongly disagree here. The contract does not help Bryz, but he *is* the problem. The guy with the worst rebound control in NHL history does indeed suck donkey balls.

I guess we'll agree to disagree I don't *like* Bryzgalov. I want no part of him on the Flyers. The only problem is, they forgot to give me the GM title, lol.

The only thing I'm left with is to accept that Bryz is here for another 7 years after this one. Of course, even from day one, I never expected him to fulfill that contract. It seemed like clear cap circumvention to me, just like Pronger. He just doesn't seem like the kind of goalie that will last until he's 40 in the NHL.

SO I would have no problem with Bryz if the contract was 3-4 years. We wouldn't be stuck with it for a decade if it goes south.

But until he's bought out, retires, or is traded, he's our guy. And his numbers last year were exactly what we could have expected from him. To expect more is to not be realistic.

The other thing, the 4th highest save percentage in Flyer history, .910, that is pretty embarassing. Don't know where it stacks up against other teams top goalies/stats but .910 is just slightly above average, not anything at all to brag about.

Keep in mind that this is over a player's career with that organization (I believe it filters out stats accumulated with other teams).

I went back and took a look at Detroit. The 5th highest save % for that franchise all-time (using the same 50 game minimum) is Chris Osgood at .905. Number 4 is Cujo at .911. Right in line with the Flyers.

5th in GAA is Hasek with 2.13. In comparison, number 13 all-time is Osgood with 2.49, which is close to what Bryz has at number 5.

[pilldoc]

@all

Great thread and debates! If I may continue to add my 2 cents, Bryz is only half the problem here. We can debate ad nauseum whether Bryz should be bought out at the end of the year or not. We can also debate how to replace him rather via trade (which could include giving up some of young core players), FA (someone gave a list earlier), or through the draft. The other part of the problem is that our illustrious management failed to address our defense which is downright hideous. Yes, we all know that Homer made a run at Suter (who flat out said he would not play here) and at Weber. Great intentions, but they failed to have a Plan B. The reason Bryz succeeded in PHX was that he played with better defenseman and a system which was defensive minded. Thereby hiding some of his flaws. Failing to upgrade the "D" has exposed Bryz like Janet Jackson exposing her breasts during the SB halftime show.

In reality it really is a catch 22. The Flyers pay for an albatross of a contract to Bryz, (which he really does not deserve), he is exposed to what he is. An average goal tender at best who will occasionally raise his game only to come back to reality a few games later. Because of said salary to Bryz, you virtually are handcuffed to what you can do team wise and therefore the defense suffers with sub par players who are better suited in a beer league much less the NHL. You have no money to upgrade the defense. Then to add insult to injury, during the draft you draft mostly forwards and refuse to develop any defensemen on your farm teams.

Now halfway during the shorten season, you find out Bryz is average at best and you have a defense, which is painfully obvious to most seasoned fans, which is quite simply not very good. The only way to fix this problem is now going down the road in maybe trading some of your solid young core players.

The philosophy of this team is what had hurt this team the most. Bryz's montser contract is one of the many thing handicapping this team. If Bryz was a superstar then I can say money well spend. The truth of the matter is that Bryz is NOT Worth the money he is receiving.

I would love to see Bryz bought out at the end of the season but some have made some strong arguments in why that may not be a good idea.

There needs to be a philosophy change with this team.

What a pickle of a mess!!!

[canoli]

Well, they do have a record-setting goaltender they could play immediately. He's lost the only start they played him in , 4-1 with a .893 SV%.

And they have a record-setting goaltender that they are overplaying.

And they have a goaltender with "Cup Finals experience" - he lost his only start, 5-1 with an .808 SV%.

I realize that's the "almost anyone else" in your comment - but it's also the three goalies the team chose.

all this ... from a comment I made (in parenthesis) that Emery had just set a new NHL record last night.

...the mere mention that he did something good - and you answered with 3 or 4 sarcastic comments (depending how you count; the last one I didn't quite "get").

Don't get me wrong I love the sarcasm...always...just thought it was a little "over the top" considering.

Carry on!

[brelic]

all this ... from a comment I made (in parenthesis) that Emery had just set a new NHL record last night.

...the mere mention that he did something good - and you answered with 3 or 4 sarcastic comments (depending how you count; the last one I didn't quite "get").

Don't get me wrong I love the sarcasm...always...just thought it was a little "over the top" considering.

Carry on!

I really liked watching Razor when he was here. His numbers weren't great, but he did look good in several games. Too bad we never game him another chance, but we can't fault the organization for moving on either. I mean, we didn't give Emery necrotizing hip disease. It's not our fault his hip was attacking him.

But dollars to donuts that if you swapped goalies right now, Bryz would go 10-0 in Chicago and Emery would be a middling .500 goaltender with average/below average numbers.

EDIT: I have no idea what "dollars to donuts" means or where it comes from, but I saw someone else use it here recently, and I just love the way it sounds!

[albertaflyer]

I really liked watching Razor when he was here. His numbers weren't great, but he did look good in several games. Too bad we never game him another chance, but we can't fault the organization for moving on either. I mean, we didn't give Emery necrotizing hip disease. It's not our fault his hip was attacking him.

But dollars to donuts that if you swapped goalies right now, Bryz would go 10-0 in Chicago and Emery would be a middling .500 goaltender with average/below average numbers.

EDIT: I have no idea what "dollars to donuts" means or where it comes from, but I saw someone else use it here recently, and I just love the way it sounds!

Ya I'm going to say no on the Bryz would be 10-0 on Chicago. I've watched just about every one of Emery's starts this year and there have been atleast two that Chicago had no right winning. Emery bailed them out. When your coach comes out after the Calgary game and says that's the best goaltending performance he has ever seen that says something about Emery's game. He has been really good. Even last night he made some really tough saves when the game was on the line. We don't get that from Bryz.

[pilldoc]

But dollars to donuts that if you swapped goalies right now, Bryz would go 10-0 in Chicago and Emery would be a middling .500 goaltender with average/below average numbers.

I would also take Chicago defense too with the likes of Duncan Keith, Brent Seabrook, Johnny Oduya, and Michal Rosival. Compare that that to Lilja, Gervais, and Foster, it is no wonder that whoever they put in net will succeed.

[brelic]

I would also take Chicago defense too with the likes of Duncan Keith, Brent Seabrook, Johnny Oduya, and Michal Rosival. Compare that that to Lilja, Gervais, and Foster, it is no wonder that whoever they put in net will succeed.

That was exactly my point.

[brelic]

Ya I'm going to say no on the Bryz would be 10-0 on Chicago. I've watched just about every one of Emery's starts this year and there have been atleast two that Chicago had no right winning. Emery bailed them out. When your coach comes out after the Calgary game and says that's the best goaltending performance he has ever seen that says something about Emery's game. He has been really good. Even last night he made some really tough saves when the game was on the line. We don't get that from Bryz.

I think it's fair to say that there are at least 2 games that the Flyers had no business winning, but Bryz bailed them out.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Emery. I'm just saying that defense and coaching are just as or more important to a team's GAA than the actual goaltender (save for a few true elite goaltenders in the league).

[radoran]

all this ... from a comment I made (in parenthesis) that Emery had just set a new NHL record last night.

...the mere mention that he did something good - and you answered with 3 or 4 sarcastic comments (depending how you count; the last one I didn't quite "get").

Don't get me wrong I love the sarcasm...always...just thought it was a little "over the top" considering.

Carry on!

Well, one of the reasons the Flyers got Bryz was his "record setting" shutout streak and his Vezina nomination.

But the sarcasm is at the concept that Emery "set" the record.

Emery is *hardly* responsible for the 'Hawks' streak. He wasn't even in goal for more than half of the games whereas Bryz (and Boosh) were both in goal for their consecutive shutouts. Calling Ray a "record setter" is more than a little disingenuous and certainly an attempt to "spin" the discussion.

Again, I don't think relying on a guy who hasn't PLAYED more than 34 games in six years is what the Flyers need in a starting goaltender.

YMMV.

[pilldoc]

EDIT: I have no idea what "dollars to donuts" means or where it comes from, but I saw someone else use it here recently, and I just love the way it sounds!

Ask and you shall get an answer!

Dollars to doughnuts means 'most certain' or 'most assuredly'. It comes from the idea of betting. Betting a dollar to a half-dollar, for instance, means that you're giving 2 to 1 odds--you're willing to risk a dollar to win only a half-dollar. Being willing to bet dollars against doughnuts (viewed as worthless) means that you're totally confident that you're right, so confident that you'll bet money against nothing.

The expression is also found in a number of variants, including dollars to buttons, dollars to dumplings, and dollars to cobwebs, each of these objects being considered worthless.

Dollars to doughnuts as an adjectival or adverbial phrase is first found in the late nineteenth century in America. The first explicit reference to betting is not found until the 1920s, in a story by "Ellery Queen"--"I'll bet dollars to doughnuts Field played the stock market or the horses"--but betting is unquestionably the origin of the expression.

Hope this helps!

[Digityman]

"Two of the goals Philadelphia allowed came when Rick Nash took advantage of disjointed substitutions that put the Flyers out of position. They have a slim margin for such defensive errors, as their goalies' .892 save percentage is one of the worst in the NHL." (ESPN pregame writeup).

Even ESPN points it out...

[radoran]

"Two of the goals Philadelphia allowed came when Rick Nash took advantage of disjointed substitutions that put the Flyers out of position. They have a slim margin for such defensive errors, as their goalies' .892 save percentage is one of the worst in the NHL." (ESPN pregame writeup).

Even ESPN is point it out...

In fairness, Bryz's SV% is .903; I'm going to go with a theory that Boosh's .898 and, of course, Leighton's .808 (5 goals on 26 shots) isn't helping the team's ranking.

Bryz's .903 places him squarely behind a certain guy playing in Columbus...

Never mind...

EDIT: They also seem to include empty netters in the "team SV%" ranking