We are what we are

[caluso]

We are just a bad team. Period.

And, I hate to say that I saw it coming, but....

Holmgren needs to go: he can't manage the salary cap, he has no regard for draft choices (did we really need to give up a draft pick for gagne; really!) and he has yet to figure out that the NHL is a hard salary cap league.

Lavy and his "system" are a joke: The Flyers don't play hard for 60minutes, they have no defensive system in their own zone, and the team has clearly tuned him out.

It's time to unload players who might have value elsewhere (Briere, Coburn, Fedotenko, Timonen, Talbot, Read) and acquire draft picks (novel idea, Gomer, but try it).

[flyercanuck]

@caluso

I wouldn't trade Read or Coburn for draft picks. Or Talbot. You're not going to get lottery picks for them and the chances of getting the same quality back is nothing more than a gamble.

[jammer2]

@flyercanuck As bad as Coburn has been playing, moving him just makes the problem on defense worse. Plus, he always seems to pick up his game when it matters the most, in the playoffs. We need to start plugging the hole, not taking a jackhammer to it! A veteran d-man who has a record of playing a solid game in the playoffs is worth more than the measley return you would get for Coburn.....not worth it.

[caluso]

i would definitely trade coburn for a talented youg player or number 1. he's good but not great and i think there are several bubble teams in need of a d-man who would pay that price, believing that the good coburn will reappear come playoff time.. compare coburn's play with grossmann's. grossmann competes EVERY shift, Every game while i am not sure what coburn is going to do at any given moment.

as for "plugging the holes with veterans for the playoffs," STOP THE INSANITY! that's what got us in this mess. Gomer has consistently patched holes with stopgap veterans - usually at the expense of youth or picks. additionally, do you think we can make the playoffs or have success if we get in. i don;t think we can get on another run like we did a few years ago or duplicate the kings' success last year - our d isn't good enough to win low scoring playoff games (even with a good coburn).

this is a hard salary cap league - you must have good, young talent for sustained success nowadays. that, and a goalie. we have no farm system (i know we have a young team, just not a good young team) and no goalie ... a bad combination for the future.

Edited March 9, 2013 by caluso

[brelic]

Why do we need to do anything? I think we all expected this, and at the end of the season, they'll all have gained a year experience and will get better. What the OP is suggesting - basically gutting the roster - is the kind of high turnover we have to resist! Let these guys grow together for a few seasons. The only exception I see is that if you can move Briere for a nice return, you do it. Other than that, stay the course and re-evaluate at the end of the season.

In-season is the worst time to make moves.

[murraycraven]

There should be no shock here... this defense is terrible and was never close to being decent. We are depending on young kids which is never good... keep the youth and build around it...

No stupid trades and stay the course. We are nowhere near contending so build around our strength... youth. And for the love of Christmas get a *****g defense!!!

[jammer2]

@murraycraven "No stupid trades and stay the course. We are nowhere near contending so build around our strength... youth. And for the love of Christmas get a *****g defense!!!"

Agree 100%....UNLESS we can solve the goaltending problem by trading youth...depending on who that is, I'm all on board with getting a Bernier, Bishop, somebody...anybody to give us hope in net.

[RonJeremy]

The problem with staying the course and building the team, is without making a trade we cannot improve the defense. We do not have any top 3 defensemen in our system, nor do we have any defensemen with any offensive skills. Timmonen is fading out, so if we stay the course it will be 5 years before we are real contenders. I do agree we need to keep our draft picks, but even if we drafted a real good defenseman today, he is at least 2 yeaes away from making any kind of difference, ew can expect an 18 yr old dman to step in and take over as the anchorman on the blueline.

We need two mobile offensively skilled defenseman, one we will have to trade for, the other we have to draft this year. Coots or Reade will be the trade bait, like it or not. I dont believe there are any defensemen we can get as an UFA, a trade is the only way. Hopefully we get a high lottery pick and grab the best defendeman

[caluso]

i think if we take a hard look at what has transpired during Gomer's regime, this team's failure should not come as a surprise. in fact, i think we'd see that it was inevitable. i really think we need new management and leadership, one with less tolerance and more accountability. and one that understands that this is a hard salary cap league where draft picks matter (you cannot keep dumping young players and draft picks for stopgap veterans. how is your talent pool going to improve?) and handing out outrageous contracts bite you in the ass (way too many of those to list but Timonen's extension is laughable - and he is my favorite flyer; Gomer really doesn't get it.)

for years, this team has not competed for the full 60 minutes. years. it's been the same sad story time and time again, a good period followed by two bad ones. no leadership, no accountability. i am sick of seeing that idiot Laviolette glowering behind the bench as if he's done everything he could, and the team is letting him down. far from it!

just look at how the he has handled couturier this season, who has been awful, passive and lazy time and time again: it took half the season before he was demoted to the fourth line (why is he even with the big club, anyway). additionally, and by contrast, rinaldo has played inspired, physical hockey every game, every shift and yet his ice time has hardly increased. you should earn your playing time, it shouldn't be handed to you (didn't we learn anything from the richards / carter era?). perhaps if this were a meritocracy, the team would compete harder.

[OSR29]

The Flyers need to look themselves in the mirror here and try over. Homer is mostly to blame. He spent all the time & resorces to try and landed players he in reality had no chance of getting; Weber, Parise and Suter. By tying everything up towards them, the hands were tied and we let Jagr and Carle slip away. Jagr would have helped Giroux and Couturier through disappointing seasons, been a big-brother for our young guns in difficult times. Carle is an unsung hero you don´t notice untill he´s not here. We miss his ability to move the puck out of the zone. Should have re-signed him. We are short of puck-movers and relying on old Timo is not working.

We need to force Briere a deadline trade or buyout in summer. If we get a low 1st round pick in a deep draft, good for us. Same with Timo, not sure he can land a 1st rounder, but at least a 2nd rounder from a contender. He´s a durable playoff performer, like Briere.

We need to draft a good defenseman or two and even explore the possibilities of acquiring young stars like Pietrangelo, Yandle, Ekman-Larsson etc. If we need to trade either Couturier or Laughton in a package to do so, we should. Our team is in dire need of a no. 1 defenseman who can quarterback the defensive corps and the power play. We also need to add another puck-carrying defenseman further down the depth chart, a role Carle had in the past.

A new goalie? Bryzgalov has in 1,5 years showed he is not capable of stealing games. He lets a soft goal get past him more often than not. He has had no help this year from the defense and his play has deteriorated after a good start to the campaign. Maybe he has given up, like the rest of the team. Is he the answer in the future? It´s a problem there´s few quality goalies available. Would love to pry Bernier from LA, but we might not have much to trade if we trade for a no. 1 defenseman... Backstrom is a UFA, would like to try and sign him for 3 years. That gives us time to find a younger goalie for the future.

We need to add some toughness. Was a mistake to waive Sestito, a guy who can skate and hit everything in sight in addition to dropping the gloves. No point in dressing Knuble, Fedotenko etc. for 5 mins on the 4th line. Either a guy like Knuble is good enough to play on the top 3 lines, or he´s out.

If we have cap space and Corey Perry is up for auction this summer, we should look into it. But we need to address the glaring needs on defense first and foremost.

So fellow Flyers-fan; who do you move, buy out and trade? What would you want Homer to do? I did not get into coaching, but it´s evident Laviolette has lost the room. The players are simply not responding to him. Lavy also shows little capability to adjust strategies during games. He is an intense coach...and coaches like that don´t last that long on one team. See Keenan, Hitchcock as examples on the Flyers.

[caluso]

i think your post is spot on and very insightful.

what upside is there to keep knuble, trade a pick for gagne, yet waive sestito? it is the same stuff year affter year.

we need to do what successful teams do and start building from the net on out; and, it s evident that gomer cannot identify top-notch goaltending.

[mojo1917]

@OSR29

I listen to offers for Hartnell if the deal includes a top notch d-prospect , but only that.

I think we'll have to trade a Laughton/Couterier /Cousins in a package to bring back a Carle type- Yandle for instance. If we trade Couterier I want him far away where I don't have to watch him light it up and kill us. Someone we value will have to go to bring back what we need, I'd rather go with Schenn Giroux on the top lines, Couterier might be the odd man out, Laughton is a character guy for the 3 rd, coots is more of a Jordan Staal type.

I know a lot of guys think Read is a chip to play but I'd rather keep him, he's a Swiss Army knife plays anywhere, all situations is fast as hell, like Carle he'd be missed. We're seeing that now. The deal he's in going away needs to bring back the stud defenseman we crave, anything less we lose.

Buy out Bryzgalov , get what you can for Timmonen and Briere if no deal comes, buy out Briere, that makes room at center, Timmonen can play lesser minutes with the upgrade and mentor Schenn and the draftee.

[OccamsRazor]

@OSR29

I listen to offers for Hartnell if the deal includes a top notch d-prospect , but only that.

I think we'll have to trade a Laughton/Couterier /Cousins in a package to bring back a Carle type- Yandle for instance. If we trade Couterier I want him far away where I don't have to watch him light it up and kill us. Someone we value will have to go to bring back what we need, I'd rather go with Schenn Giroux on the top lines, Couterier might be the odd man out, Laughton is a character guy for the 3 rd, coots is more of a Jordan Staal type.

I know a lot of guys think Read is a chip to play but I'd rather keep him, he's a Swiss Army knife plays anywhere, all situations is fast as hell, like Carle he'd be missed. We're seeing that now. The deal he's in going away needs to bring back the stud defenseman we crave, anything less we lose.

Buy out Bryzgalov , get what you can for Timmonen and Briere if no deal comes, buy out Briere, that makes room at center, Timmonen can play lesser minutes with the upgrade and mentor Schenn and the draftee.

Seee that is the problem guys here want to obtain the talent yet they don't want to part with talent to get it...got to deal from a strength to shore up a weakness...

...that is the only way to get it and the Flyers farm is bare no talent to move down there....

...hell they suck so bad they don't even wan to call them up so we can see how bad they suck...they would just dig through the NHL castoff trash can for talent which explains this roster when you look at it...

...i am tied of them trading picks away...yet if they are going to continue to waste them like being able to draft Maatta and taking Laughton what the difference...they have a weakness yet won't address it...it's maddening!!!!

So it to me seems the only way they can get guys is to over pay in trades...continueing to get raped!!!!

Edited March 10, 2013 by OccamsRazor

[CoachX]

@flyercanuck As bad as Coburn has been playing, moving him just makes the problem on defense worse. Plus, he always seems to pick up his game when it matters the most, in the playoffs. We need to start plugging the hole, not taking a jackhammer to it! A veteran d-man who has a record of playing a solid game in the playoffs is worth more than the measley return you would get for Coburn.....not worth it.

Is Coburn playing bad becasue his skills are gone, or is he playing bad because of the dynamics of the team. How many times has a struggling player been moved, only to play great elsewhere?

Its times for management to look in the mirror

[jammer2]

@CoachX Yeah, I don't think Coburn's skills have eroded or anything like that. It's a little bit slump by him and a lot enviroment, new defensive partners, the lack of effective backchecking by the forwards, the team in general getting muscled off the puck with alarming regularity. I believe Coburn would make a efficient 3-4 guy on most teams in the leauge. As long as they don't ask him to go outside his safety zone, he's a fine d-man on most nights, this little bump in the road aside.