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Howie:

You are definately the true investigative journalist of this group ;) Nice work.

Now, who goes and who stays, and who is blamed for this mess and underachievement, and who crawls under their desk upstairs at Wells Fargo Center sucking their thumb and taking no blame for any of this CF this year?

This, I want to see.

BOI

Bear:

What's interesting along the lines you raise is how common your sentiment is. Even Donnelson and Carchidi of the Inquirer are raising the kind of question you post. This is a system problem, not an individual screw-up problem. And it may be dawning on some, hopefully Lukko, that this @$it can't go on year in and year out.

Best,

Howie

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Although, to be fair, I'd much rather have an owner that is willing to do whatever he can to try to win a Cup. A LOT of other owners seem to care about nothing but making money.

i agree, i mean it's been 39 years, i dont understand why fans want to watch a bad team rather than a good team, if this team is not playing right something has to be done, sucking for a few years is a bad idea.

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i agree, i mean it's been 39 years, i dont understand why fans want to watch a bad team rather than a good team, if this team is not playing right something has to be done, sucking for a few years is a bad idea.

So you;re OK with the same old formula of trading youth and/or picks for over the hill used to be's that constantly keeps us competetive but hasn't ever won us a cup?

Oh and welcome to the board!

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@flyercanuck

I heard, now keep in mind it was from my landscaper, that the Flyers were going to send their 2nd along with Rinaldo for Jeff Halpern.

Additional facts: my landscaper is a great source of knowledge on anything Central American; however, his hockey insight is rather speculative.

Oh boy my fingers are crossed on this one. Please Homlgren make Rob the landscaper the "next" hockeyinsider......

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i agree, i mean it's been 39 years, i dont understand why fans want to watch a bad team rather than a good team, if this team is not playing right something has to be done, sucking for a few years is a bad idea.

Welcome to the board.

Since 1995 the Flyers have only missed the playoffs 1 year. Despite coming close a few times, I would trade in at least 5 of those playoff runs for a cup. I think you'll find a lot of posters on this board are tired of constantly going for it while the youth is traded away for aging vets. Of course this means patience from the organization, fans and media which as you know, is nearly impossible.

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@off_the_post The age old question, will the Flyers management and thier fans be patient enough to suck for a few years, stick to a solid plan and grow the proper way??/ I have my doubts.

Jammer, I think most Flyers fans would be patience enough to suck for a few years, the Flyers don't need a massive rebuild but they have to fix the defense and goalie position. But as for the Flyers management, there lies the problem- old man Snider wants to see another championship before he kicks the bucket so he doesn't want to be patience and Holmgren just does what he's told by Snider.

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I think most fans would be patient if ANYONE in the Organ-I-zation actually said we are rebuilding. It appeared that was the case with the Richards/Carter trades...then they go and sign Jagr(which turned out to be a great signing for them). But signing a 40 year old, doesn't exactly demonstrate full blown rebuild mode.

Then last summer, they throw a gazillion dollars at Weber, Suter, Parise, and the man on the moon. Again, not moves a team makes if truly rebuilding.

Most of us agree, there appears to be no consistent plan, or for that matter, NO plan at all. That is what frustrates most people, in my opinion.

Tell me we are retooling, the next year or two(pick an arbitrary number) will be used to accumlate youth and draft picks. I am all in. But don't rebuild one week, and do the same stupid crap the next, ie...overpaying for vets/throwing away picks/etc.

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@flyercanuck

I heard, now keep in mind it was from my landscaper, that the Flyers were going to send their 2nd along with Rinaldo for Jeff Halpern.

Additional facts: my landscaper is a great source of knowledge on anything Central American; however, his hockey insight is rather speculative.

Oh boy my fingers are crossed on this one. Please Homlgren make Rob the landscaper the "next" hockeyinsider......

Central America is my favourite vacationing area, so Robs word is as good as gold to me. Going out to get my Halpern jersey as we speak. Don't know how the Flyers are going to make up for the lost production sending Rinaldo the other way though. He's put up four times the points Halpern has this year.

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@flyercanuck

It became a secret Flyers mandate after the 01-02 season the the Flyers depth chart must be comprised of no less than 82% being active centers.

Also in that mandate, 2nd round picks are a nuisance that scouts and GMs have no time to research. Besides if all the centers are taken in the 1st round, there shouldn't be any left in the 2nd round.

Rob is an honest landscaper, I only caught him having a siesta behind my shed 4 times last summer.

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Bear:

What's interesting along the lines you raise is how common your sentiment is. Even Donnelson and Carchidi of the Inquirer are raising the kind of question you post. This is a system problem, not an individual screw-up problem. And it may be dawning on some, hopefully Lukko, that this @$it can't go on year in and year out.

Best,

Howie

Howie:

That is it exactly. This cannot go on year after year with blamming the players or the coach. Especially, changing the coach. Holmgren already has an issue with other GM's and hockey organizations in how he operates in the NHL like Attilla The Hun.

This year it was simple: Holmgren shot his load with Pronger. In a NY minute end of career for CP20. Terrible. Just terrible. Ok, Holmgren realized Pronger was gone, Kimmo just had a couple good years left in the tank, Colburn had not improved and was a marginal 1/2, and the stable of horses in the D barn quite inadequate, so he swung for the fences. Weber, Sutter. He missed. Took his eye off the ball and Carle was gone. So here and this is where we are. And with a G who gets undressed 3 on 2 or 2 on 1 when D gets caught. Oh, and who misses Jagr or JVR?

But the real issue is that this organization under Holmgren as GM does not develop players, especially D-men. They believe it can be done in the trade. Their scouts are marginal.

This is just not well managed organization. Just not that bright. That is why this is completely a top-down issue.

Lukko? There is a reason he is here. He is the Comcast back-up plan. He does have an impressive sports management track record up in Boston.

BOI

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Howie:

That is it exactly. This cannot go on year after year with blamming the players or the coach. Especially, changing the coach. Holmgren already has an issue with other GM's and hockey organizations in how he operates in the NHL like Attilla The Hun.

This year it was simple: Holmgren shot his load with Pronger. In a NY minute end of career for CP20. Terrible. Just terrible. Ok, Holmgren realized Pronger was gone, Kimmo just had a couple good years left in the tank, Colburn had not improved and was a marginal 1/2, and the stable of horses in the D barn quite inadequate, so he swung for the fences. Weber, Sutter. He missed. Took his eye off the ball and Carle was gone. So here and this is where we are. And with a G who gets undressed 3 on 2 or 2 on 1 when D gets caught. Oh, and who misses Jagr or JVR?

But the real issue is that this organization under Holmgren as GM does not develop players, especially D-men. They believe it can be done in the trade. Their scouts are marginal.

This is just not well managed organization. Just not that bright. That is why this is completely a top-down issue.

Lukko? There is a reason he is here. He is the Comcast back-up plan. He does have an impressive sports management track record up in Boston.

BOI

Scouting & development are serious issues with this team & have been for a long time.

When was the last time we drafted & developed a home-grown goalie or defenseman worth a darn? I have a hard time remembering ANY over the last 20+ years. (Am I missing one or two somewhere?)

We can draft forwards. Great. (Who can't?)

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Scouting & development are serious issues with this team & have been for a long time.

When was the last time we drafted & developed a home-grown goalie or defenseman worth a darn? I have a hard time remembering ANY over the last 20+ years. (Am I missing one or two somewhere?)

We can draft forwards. Great. (Who can't?)

Hextall? Pelle? I honestly cannot remember. That's bad.

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@flyercanuck

If the Flyers trade Rinaldo I'm gonna puke. He's one of the few who has put a consistent effort in and was born to be a Flyer. Also, I just re-acquired him as my goon in my keeper....

I agree. I hated Rinaldo when he played here, but I've become a fan of his as long as he plays ON the edge and not over it. What exactly does "born to be a Flyer" mean? Can't play goal?

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What exactly does "born to be a Flyer" mean? Can't play goal?

Yes!

Rinaldo has drawn way more penalties than he's taken. Two more drawn the other night vs NJ. His drawn/taken ratio must be +15 or something. That's an asset right there.

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Yes!

Rinaldo has drawn way more penalties than he's taken. Two more drawn the other night vs NJ. His drawn/taken ratio must be +15 or something. That's an asset right there.

For clarification, that does imply embellishment or flopping. He's working his tail off and playing through the hits.

And, that ratio unfortunately includes bs "reputation" calls from his rookie season.

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Yes!

Rinaldo has drawn way more penalties than he's taken. Two more drawn the other night vs NJ. His drawn/taken ratio must be +15 or something. That's an asset right there.

Absolutely. He's become one of THE most hated players in the league. Unlike Carcillo though, I like having him on the team because he's not an embarrassment to the game. And pound for pound one of the heaviest hitters.

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