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We were in the Finals just 3 years ago?


AndyS
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We lost depth going for Pronger then lost Pronger. We traded Carter and Richards for youth, and I'm ok with that. Timonen and Brieres best days are behind them. Time for a rebuild.

The good thing is we're pretty well set for young forwards. We've got scorers, playmakers, checkers and hitters.

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Ya it appears the Flyers - besides Rinaldo and a few other guys - just were not going to give it their all this season - this 48-game, half-ass season. Like a lot of fans they probably don't see this year as "legit" but more like a long pre-season before next year.

Obviously I have no idea what's in their heads but that's what it looks like to me - simple disinterest in competing for wins. Too bad it may get Lavy fired but maybe it's time for some new blood anyway. Buy out Bryzgalov, bring in Terry Murray and once Hartnell, Briere, KT and the scrubs on D are gone (foster, gervais obviously), replaced by actual NHLers...we *may* have a team that feels like competing.

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Ya it appears the Flyers - besides Rinaldo and a few other guys - just were not going to give it their all this season - this 48-game, half-ass season. Like a lot of fans they probably don't see this year as "legit" but more like a long pre-season before next year.

Obviously I have no idea what's in their heads but that's what it looks like to me - simple disinterest in competing for wins. Too bad it may get Lavy fired but maybe it's time for some new blood anyway. Buy out Bryzgalov, bring in Terry Murray and once Hartnell, Briere, KT and the scrubs on D are gone (foster, gervais obviously), replaced by actual NHLers...we *may* have a team that feels like competing.

So, once Hartnell is gone in 2019, we're on the road to success.

The future's so bright, I've gotta weara shades.

:ph34r:

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So, once Hartnell is gone in 2019, we're on the road to success.

The future's so bright, I've gotta weara shades.

:ph34r:

yeah I hesitated to include Hartnell not only because of his contract but more because I think he's still incredibly effective and a useful team player. I just lumped him in with the "old guys" in that post but I shouldn't have. To me he's a keeper.

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It seems to me it's either quit on the coach or the goalie, my guess is the latter.

I don't think there's any question it's "the latter" - it's Bryzgalov.

Lavy coached them to the Final a few years ago - different team in a lot of respects, but Lavy was the HC. Since Bryzgalov has taken over it's been a mess...one lousy month of solid hockey - a year ago - and that's been it. The rest of the time it's One Mistake = One Goal. Night after night.

[edit: I'm sorry Rad but even I, who haven't played hockey in 25 years, remembers how much it SUCKS playing in front of a guy who can't keep the puck out of the net, who constantly sprays rebounds all over the fkn place...and then to top it off acts like an a-hole.]

Edited by canoli
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The team has clearly given up. It seems to me it's either quit on the coach or the goalie, my guess is the latter.

You say they "quit"

When did they "start"?

This team has been a moribund failure since the season began. Then the coach decided to run the goalie into the ground.

And they have a captain who, in a five game series that is make or break, manages a goal (against a second rate team) and two assists while being shut out for shots in two games. Oh, and he was -4 and had no (zero (0)) hits in three of five games.

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@radoran

Yes, Giroux has quit along with everyone else. He was pretty frickin incredible ALL last year. And the year before that. He wasn't too shabby the year before that either. Meanwhile, Bryz' claim to fame as a Flyer is his goofy comments and unbelievably bad goals. (not to mention Giroux has made less in those 3 years than Bryz did last season) When you have a guy like that in net, giving up crappy goals on a regular basis for a year and a half now, I understand the quit. It's not right, but I get it. The eyerolling and headshakes say it all about the confidence the team has in their goalie(s).

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You say they "quit"

When did they "start"?

This team has been a moribund failure since the season began. Then the coach decided to run the goalie into the ground.

And they have a captain who, in a five game series that is make or break, manages a goal (against a second rate team) and two assists while being shut out for shots in two games. Oh, and he was -4 and had no (zero (0)) hits in three of five games.

Accurately accurate. The team has been playing like crap from the get-go this year. For the first month or so the goaltending was the only thing keeping them in games. Now... well, it's not pretty.

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@radoran

Yes, Giroux has quit along with everyone else. He was pretty frickin incredible ALL last year. And the year before that. He wasn't too shabby the year before that either. Meanwhile, Bryz' claim to fame as a Flyer is his goofy comments and unbelievably bad goals. (not to mention Giroux has made less in those 3 years than Bryz did last season) When you have a guy like that in net, giving up crappy goals on a regular basis for a year and a half now, I understand the quit. It's not right, but I get it. The eyerolling and headshakes say it all about the confidence the team has in their goalie(s).

I have zero respect for players that quit. None. Note my previous comments on JR.

First season with the C and you go on vacation halfway through after coming up small all season. The team started off 2-5. Giroux managed two goals and four points. Two hits. Zero shots in two games.

Again - if he quit, when did Giroux "start"?

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Just saying.

Hard to believe, isn't it?

I guess Richards & Carter weren't the problem, eh?

Andy: I posted a thread on this two weeks ago...compare our trajectory with Chicago's. That's mildly depressing. We have built largely through trade. They have maintained a strong core via draft. So...we are going backwards. They have stayed strong.

Best,

Howie

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@flyercanuck

@radoran

Re: quitting. It's not as simple as saying player x or player y is not trying. It's that they are not trying together as a team - there's no evidence that the players are playing for each other in the way that you need to win games which are basically at a playoff level given the short season.

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We lost depth going for Pronger then lost Pronger. We traded Carter and Richards for youth, and I'm ok with that. Timonen and Brieres best days are behind them. Time for a rebuild.

The good thing is we're pretty well set for young forwards. We've got scorers, playmakers, checkers and hitters.

Holmgren has to rebuild the defense and decide what he's going to do when it comes to goaltending, I'm hoping he buys out Bryzgalov and Briere this summer to free up close to $12 million in cap space and trade for Bernier from LA.

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@flyercanuck

@radoran

Re: quitting. It's not as simple as saying player x or player y is not trying. It's that they are not trying together as a team - there's no evidence that the players are playing for each other in the way that you need to win games which are basically at a playoff level given the short season.

There are two people who are supposed to bring the team togetherr as you describe.

The coach and the captain.

Both have obviously failed.

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Andy: I posted a thread on this two weeks ago...compare our trajectory with Chicago's. That's mildly depressing. We have built largely through trade. They have maintained a strong core via draft. So...we are going backwards. They have stayed strong.

Best,

Howie

Howie, the Blackhawks crapped the bed for roughly 7 years in order to get those core draft picks and I honestly can't see the Flyers fanbase putting up with that type of rebuild. Like FC stated, Holmgren has a good nucleus of forwards now he has to concentrate on the defense and goalie positions. Getting rid of Briere and other deadweight will help start the process.

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unfortunately this is how it goes when you're losing. Guys try to do way too much on their own, they take more chances and become less responsive to directions from the HC or the captain.

[edit: and the direction, what the players always hear is "play your position, be responsible" and those are the first things guys disregard when they try to force momentum changes.]

There's no way I blame this mess on Giroux, even though I agree with Rad that he hasn't been the Top 5 player he should be this year. Saying he's "not as good" this year is one thing, faulting him for the disorganized mess we see on the ice is quite another.

meanwhile practically every mistake, every turnover or blown coverage ends up in the back of our net...hard to fault the HC or the captain for that.

Edited by canoli
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@radoran

Yup, it's hard to disagree with that. The systematic lack of improvement at aspects of our game over three years (I get fixated on stuff like passing 'cause it drives me nuts, but it's everything really) ultimately has to fall on the coach and his staff.

Laviiolette at this point is a disaster. I don't care if it's jam, jelly or marmalade, there's none of it on this team right now.

He rode Bryzgalov into the ground, making some of the worst choices of goaltender since Homer picked Boosh and Leaky to back him up.

And the captain has been virtually a non-factor all season. I can't think of one game he has taken over,controlled or even been a major influence in. There likely is one, somewhere, sometime. Probably against an even more crap team.

One assist and four shots in three games against the Rangers.

Two assists, four shots, -1 against the Devils.

He does have a goal and three assists (even) against the Penguins. The team was 1-2.

He does have three points in one game against the Isles. So they've got that going for them. They're better than the Islanders.

Except the Isles are tied in points with the Flyers, with two games in hand.

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unfortunately this is how it goes when you're losing. Guys try to do way too much on their own, they take more chances and become less responsive to directions from the HC or the captain. There's no way I blame this mess on Giroux, even though I agree with Rad that he hasn't been the Top 5 player he should be this year. Saying he's "not as good" this year is one thing, faulting him for the disorganized mess we see on the ice is quite another.

meanwhile practically every mistake, every turnover or blown coverage ends up in the back of our net...hard to fault the HC or the captain for that.

I'm speccifically responding to pods comment about whether they play for each other.

They don't.

That, for me, is a large part of what a captain is supposed to do.

I have yet to see even the hint of an inkling of that from G.

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