We were in the Finals just 3 years ago?

[Mad Dog]

We've got scorers, playmakers, checkers and hitters.

Not to worry. Only a matter of time before Holmgren trades them all for a 40-year old washed-up old bird.

[Mad Dog]

We've got scorers, playmakers, checkers and hitters.

Not to worry. Only a matter of time before Holmgren trades them all for a 40-year old washed-up old bird.

[flyerrod]

I'm waiting for Briere to demand marshmallows in his cereal.

I thought Lucky Charms came with marshmallows.........

[pilldoc]

Howie, the Blackhawks crapped the bed for roughly 7 years in order to get those core draft picks and I honestly can't see the Flyers fanbase putting up with that type of rebuild. Like FC stated, Holmgren has a good nucleus of forwards now he has to concentrate on the defense and goalie positions. Getting rid of Briere and other deadweight will help start the process.

i made this same type of statement in another thread a couple of weeks ago.

[pilldoc]

I'm speccifically responding to pods comment about whether they play for each other.

They don't.

That, for me, is a large part of what a captain is supposed to do.

I have yet to see even the hint of an inkling of that from G.

We can argue all day and all night if making G the captain was the right thing to do or not. However, what is done is done, moving forward, Roo has to realize that he needs to be a better captain and make the appropiate changes for next year.

[BearOnIce]

I'm waiting for Briere to demand marshmallows in his cereal.

I'm waiting for Briere to demand to get his fat, whale-of-an-ex-wife back.

[radoran]

We can argue all day and all night if making G the captain was the right thing to do or not. However, what is done is done, moving forward, Roo has to realize that he needs to be a better captain and make the appropiate changes for next year.

It clearly was the wrong decision. But that is water under the bridge.

Giroux needs to act as if there's more to being captain than skating around with a C on your sweater.

And if he is one of the best players in the world, it would help if he would take over a game now and again or show up against the best teams.

[BearOnIce]

Ya it appears the Flyers - besides Rinaldo and a few other guys - just were not going to give it their all this season - this 48-game, half-ass season. Like a lot of fans they probably don't see this year as "legit" but more like a long pre-season before next year.

Obviously I have no idea what's in their heads but that's what it looks like to me - simple disinterest in competing for wins. Too bad it may get Lavy fired but maybe it's time for some new blood anyway. Buy out Bryzgalov, bring in Terry Murray and once Hartnell, Briere, KT and the scrubs on D are gone (foster, gervais obviously), replaced by actual NHLers...we *may* have a team that feels like competing.

Good plan Canoli, but you forget to add Ed Snider and Paul Holmgren to the list of "out-of-towners" needed.

[Bakanekimiwa]

Just saying.

Hard to believe, isn't it?

I guess Richards & Carter weren't the problem, eh?

That's what made it doubly sad when we lost. I just knew that was it for that team. It's not very often that a team can get that far and then just do it again the next season. It happens, sure, but it's not a given. I knew that was it for that team... and a great team it was. Just not great enough. Story of the Philadelphia Flyers.. in my fandom at least.

[Bakanekimiwa]

It clearly was the wrong decision. But that is water under the bridge.

Giroux needs to act as if there's more to being captain than skating around with a C on your sweater.

And if he is one of the best players in the world, it would help if he would take over a game now and again or show up against the best teams.

I saw his post game interview last night and he just looked... overwhelmed. Like.. he doesn't even know what to begin to do as a captain. Maybe they could get Lindros to mentor him or something. I mean.. Lindros would just take over games at times when the team was sluggish or sucking.

[radoran]

I saw his post game interview last night and he just looked... overwhelmed. Like.. he doesn't even know what to begin to do as a captain. Maybe they could get Lindros to mentor him or something. I mean.. Lindros would just take over games at times when the team was sluggish or sucking.

I know it was heresy to say that Giroux shouldn't get the C this early, but just call me a heretic.

I don't know that Giroux has ever "taken over a game" - "the shift" maybe. But a whole game?

And the key to being one of the best players in the world is doing just that.

I like G. He's a good player. Very good.

He's NOT the player to build your team around rightnow.

His example as captain was Mike Richards.

'nuff said.

[Bakanekimiwa]

I know it was heresy to say that Giroux shouldn't get the C this early, but just call me a heretic.

I don't know that Giroux has ever "taken over a game" - "the shift" maybe. But a whole game?

And the key to being one of the best players in the world is doing just that.

I like G. He's a good player. Very good.

He's NOT the player to build your team around rightnow.

His example as captain was Mike Richards.

'nuff said.

Well, I'm a heretic as well then. I was certainly a vocal opponent of naming Richards captain so early as I was Giroux. I really like Giroux and he probably will be a good captain someday, but again... it was just too damn early. Especially when you had vets with leadership on their resume already to bridge the gap. (read: timo).

[JackStraw]

I know it was heresy to say that Giroux shouldn't get the C this early, but just call me a heretic.

I don't know that Giroux has ever "taken over a game" - "the shift" maybe. But a whole game?

And the key to being one of the best players in the world is doing just that.

I like G. He's a good player. Very good.

He's NOT the player to build your team around rightnow.

His example as captain was Mike Richards.

'nuff said.

Heretic! Reported!

But seriously... people need to stop worrying about Giroux. He will be fine. I've never heard it said that one of the qualifications for being captain was that you had to take over games. Last year he emerged as clearly the team's best player and an elite player in the league. But I doubt he was given the C for those reasons alone. I'm sure it was given to him because he earned the respect of his team mates and coaches. This is not an Ovechkin situation.

And it should not be overlooked that while last year Giroux had a breakout season playing with Jagr, this year Voracek is having a breakout season playing with Giroux. Could there be a pattern of some kind here?

I wanted Timonen to get the C back when they gave it to Jason Smith, who was clearly just a band-aid back then. But now, Giroux is entering his prime and is still the team's best player. No problem with him wearing the C.

[canoli]

well he's a 1pt/game player who's FO% (54.1%) is just 6 percentage points behind the NHL leader.

and just for the record, when nobody else on your team can win a draw...when his teammates can't connect on simple passes, when every mistake that leaves an open lane for a shooter goes for a goal-against, when there are usually 2 but always 1 goal that Bryzgalov would "like to have back" every night... I don't see anyone, current or past who would "take over a game" the way the Flyers are playing lately.

[radoran]

Heretic! Reported!

But seriously... people need to stop worrying about Giroux. He will be fine. I've never heard it said that one of the qualifications for being captain was that you had to take over games. Last year he emerged as clearly the team's best player and an elite player in the league. But I doubt he was given the C for those reasons alone. I'm sure it was given to him because he earned the respect of his team mates and coaches. This is not an Ovechkin situation.

And it should not be overlooked that while last year Giroux had a breakout season playing with Jagr, this year Voracek is having a breakout season playing with Giroux. Could there be a pattern of some kind here?

I wanted Timonen to get the C back when they gave it to Jason Smith, who was clearly just a band-aid back then. But now, Giroux is entering his prime and is still the team's best player. No problem with him wearing the C.

The C and the "best player" are separate issues.

The captain is supposed to bring the team together and get everyone playing 'for each other' (along with the coach). I think he's been a dismal failure at that so far this season.

The "best player" is supposed to be able to take over games and make everyone around him better (see: Kunitz, Chris). Again, look at the carousel of players who have "tried" to play with G this season.

Just for the record, Giroux has only assisted on 6 of Voracek's 13 goals... And most of them (5) on the power play.

[radoran]

well he's a 1pt/game player who's FO% (54.1%) is just 6 percentage points behind the NHL leader.

and just for the record, when nobody else on your team can win a draw...when his teammates can't connect on simple passes, when every mistake that leaves an open lane for a shooter goes for a goal-against, when there are usually 2 but always 1 goal that Bryzgalov would "like to have back" every night... I don't see anyone, current or past who would "take over a game" the way the Flyers are playing lately.

He's been held shotless - SHOTLESS - in five games this season. Including the most recent Ranger loss and the Bruins loss.

He hasn't had a hit in 14 games this season.

He's been held off the scoresheet in 12 games (0 points) this season. Including the most recent Boston loss and the most recent Devils loss. And the first Devils loss. And the first Rangers loss. And the second Rangers loss.

So, yeah, a "point per game" player hasn't even scored in 43% of the team's games and hasn't even managed a SHOT in 18% of them and hasn't even put a HIT on someone in half of them..

We can make all the excuses for Giroux we want, but he hasn't (yet) lived up to the hype.

[DaGreatGazoo]

Landeskog is a captain at 20. Sorry, but I ain't buying the G is too young argument. If anything, his assistants should be helping him identify his personality as captain. And I have no idea if that's the case-based on what I've seen so far, it's not.

[JackStraw]

@radoran - the captain can be the team's best player (but doesn't have to be) but only the coach can be the coach. Giroux can't tell everyone else where to be on the ice, he can't tell them when/how to make clean line changes, he can't teach them not to turn the puck over in front of their own goalie.

[radoran]

@radoran - the captain can be the team's best player (but doesn't have to be) but only the coach can be the coach. Giroux can't tell everyone else where to be on the ice, he can't tell them when/how to make clean line changes, he can't teach them not to turn the puck over in front of their own goalie.

No, but I'm referring to Pods' point (forget the thread) thaat the team isn't playing "for each other." The captian isn't about positioning on the ice, he's about positioning in the locker room.

And also the point that G looked lost after the game last night.

[JackStraw]

No, but I'm referring to Pods' point (forget the thread) thaat the team isn't playing "for each other." The captian isn't about positioning on the ice, he's about positioning in the locker room.

And also the point that G looked lost after the game last night.

Ok, but honestly- how do you judge whether or not the team is "playing for each other"? I don't really see selfish or lazy players on this team. I don't see any "cancers" and there aren't really many guys that I really want to see gone after this year. And the ones that I do really want to see gone, it's mainly because they're just not very good. Do you really think it's more likely that these players just don't care, or that they just don't know what to do?

Edit: About G looking lost... who wouldn't at this point? Lavi looks lost too.

Edited March 14, 2013 by JackStraw

[radoran]

Ok, but honestly- how do you judge whether or not the team is "playing for each other"? I don't really see selfish or lazy players on this team. I don't see any "cancers" and there aren't really many guys that I really want to see gone after this year. And the ones that I do really want to see gone, it's mainly because they're just not very good. Do you really think it's more likely that these players just don't care, or that they just don't know what to do?

Edit: About G looking lost... who wouldn't at this point? Lavi looks lost too.

I agree that the future looks good. There aren't many pieces I want to shed.

That said, this team has "quit" all over it. And pretty much has all season.

[BearOnIce]

@radoran

Yes, Giroux has quit along with everyone else. He was pretty frickin incredible ALL last year. And the year before that. He wasn't too shabby the year before that either. Meanwhile, Bryz' claim to fame as a Flyer is his goofy comments and unbelievably bad goals. (not to mention Giroux has made less in those 3 years than Bryz did last season) When you have a guy like that in net, giving up crappy goals on a regular basis for a year and a half now, I understand the quit. It's not right, but I get it. The eyerolling and headshakes say it all about the confidence the team has in their goalie(s).

I miss Jagr. I do not miss Roman Checkmanic (sp)

[BearOnIce]

Well, I'm a heretic as well then. I was certainly a vocal opponent of naming Richards captain so early as I was Giroux. I really like Giroux and he probably will be a good captain someday, but again... it was just too damn early. Especially when you had vets with leadership on their resume already to bridge the gap. (read: timo).

This organization needs a GM and owner that will do what is right for the organization not necessarily what is right for the fans. I'm still waiting for either of them to make the tough decisions and grow some. They can start with admitting the FU with Bryz, getting him shipped out, and then getting some real assistant coaches for Laviolette instead of old Flyer punch bags. Oh, and now that there is plenty of time since no playoffs, start with the D.

[Howie58]

Howie, the Blackhawks crapped the bed for roughly 7 years in order to get those core draft picks and I honestly can't see the Flyers fanbase putting up with that type of rebuild. Like FC stated, Holmgren has a good nucleus of forwards now he has to concentrate on the defense and goalie positions. Getting rid of Briere and other deadweight will help start the process.

Dear L:

I wouldn't put up with seven years, but two wouldn't be so bad. I am wondering if Homer and the Gang can evaluate anything other than forwards.

Howie

[JackStraw]

I agree that the future looks good. There aren't many pieces I want to shed.

That said, this team has "quit" all over it. And pretty much has all season.

Yes, the question is why? Is lack of heart? Lack of confidence leading to frustration? Confidence comes from believing in what you are doing, given the way the season has gone, do you think they have confidence in what they are doing?