canoli Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 He hasn't had a hit in 14 games this season.I've seen nearly every Flyers game this season and there's no way that's true. Whoever's counting is flat-out wrong.We can make all the excuses for Giroux we want, but he hasn't (yet) lived up to the hype.He's "lived up to the hype" that I knew about him before he joined the Flyers; who's "hype" are you referring to here?Giroux hasn't been dominate the way he was last year. His one consistent linemate is having a career year (for what it's worth this year) but it seems like Giroux isn't "leading the way" much this season. Maybe he isn't. When your losing more than you're winning it always looks like everybody sucks including the captain. Sometimes it's true.I know you're not saying "he sucks" only that "he sucks this year" - I get the difference. I know you don't want to run him out of town. I'm just saying don't forget the positives and don't believe every number you read cuz that hit stat is b.s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerrod Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 Landeskog is a captain at 20. Sorry, but I ain't buying the G is too young argument. If anything, his assistants should be helping him identify his personality as captain. And I have no idea if that's the case-based on what I've seen so far, it's not.Same can be said for the kid in Chi town....... Toews is an excellent captain at an early age. Roo is a great player but unlike Toews, he hasn't always been the vocal leader at every level. Giroux will get there with time. Pronger should be in that locker room helping Giroux right now. He was a good captain and I am pretty sure he is still has the ability to get his point across. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 I would bet, if we rolled back the forum clock, we would find very similar discussions the last time this team went in the toilet. I find it obscenly hilarious that the Flyers keep doing the same things over and over again. THe goalie issue. The re-tread players. The making every up an coming young superstar a captain way too soon. The signing of big time defensemen who were "big time", ten years ago. The hining of coaches, and or GM's, who once played for the team.Every player on this team, with the exception of Voracek and Rinaldo, are playing worse thant they did a season ago. Are we supposed to think that they just all of a sudden forgot how to play, or lost thier skill?I don't think its Lavy. I think it starts with the management that puts these players together and thinks they have a winning team. Sometimes its not the best player, but the right player you need. Bryzgalov is the wrong player. So is Knuble, Gagne and Fedotenko. Snider is the main problem, and Holgren was his pick to GM. It hasn't worked since 75, and it won't magically work this year, or next, or next, or next ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 @CoachX Can Lukko fire Snider? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 G started the season hurt, and his winger Hartnell missed weeks. Chemistry matters.Simmonds and B Schenn are also playing very well. Read too at forward. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 Yes, the question is why? Is lack of heart? Lack of confidence leading to frustration? Confidence comes from believing in what you are doing, given the way the season has gone, do you think they have confidence in what they are doing?I don't think they have "confidence" in the "system" since the system has been exposed time and again with little adjustment being made if, indeed, any at all.No, the goalie doesn't help.But not having a defense that can be relied on has got to be part of that. Having forwards who are defensively responsible has to be a part of that.Against a team that allows itself to follow its captain into fits of immaturity, they can do fine - but not every team is the Penguins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 I've seen nearly every Flyers game this season and there's no way that's true. Whoever's counting is flat-out wrong.Official NHL stats.He's "lived up to the hype" that I knew about him before he joined the Flyers; who's "hype" are you referring to here?Giroux hasn't been dominate the way he was last year. His one consistent linemate is having a career year (for what it's worth this year) but it seems like Giroux isn't "leading the way" much this season. Maybe he isn't. When your losing more than you're winning it always looks like everybody sucks including the captain. Sometimes it's true.I know you're not saying "he sucks" only that "he sucks this year" - I get the difference. I know you don't want to run him out of town. I'm just saying don't forget the positives and don't believe every number you read cuz that hit stat is b.s.So, your "point per game" player hasn't had a point in almost half the team's games.You can cherry pick statistics to quibble with, but that's a cold, hard fact.Yes, I want Giroux to be better. And he's got to be open to criticism for that to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canoli Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 jeebus you never quitone more try:"Don't forget the positives and don't believe every number you read cuz that hit stat is b.s." there I added a smiley face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 jeebus you never quitone more try:"Don't forget the positives and don't believe every number you read cuz that hit stat is b.s." there I added a smiley face.It's like when people notice a deficiency, they keep talking about it...I don't give a rat's posterior about the validity of the hit stat.These are some stats I'm worried about:0-3 against New Jersey (0g 3a -1)1-2 against New York (0g1a 0)1-2 against Pittsburgh (1g3a 0)Here's a "positive" - he has at least a point in each game against the Pens. Caveat: just 1 assist in 3 games against the Rags.Another? Sure. 10 points in 11 games against the Atlantic. Caveat: 3 of those were in the one game played against the Isles.Still, 3-7 against the Atlantic ain't gonna cut it.Positive? 18 points in 15 February games. Caveat? 4 in 7 in January and 4 in 6 so far in March.This isn't "trade Giroux, his value will never be higher" - this is an honest evaluation of his play this season as the captain of the Philadelphia Flyers, "G's team.""Underwhelming" comes to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toughfighter83 Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 this isnt the first time giroux is playing like a##, it's been happening since last year's playoffs when he started passing more, instead of shooting, we beat the pens in the playoffs because giroux stepped his game up by shooting, so did jvr in 2011, they just stopped shooting and it's making them look like really bad players. so what if you miss, at least you trying, that's what this whole team is not doing is shooting, they are always passing which is the devils strength of beating the flyers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 this isnt the first time giroux is playing like a##, it's been happening since last year's playoffs when he started passing more, instead of shooting, we beat the pens in the playoffs because giroux stepped his game up by shooting, so did jvr in 2011, they just stopped shooting and it's making them look like really bad players. so what if you miss, at least you trying, that's what this whole team is not doing is shooting, they are always passing which is the devils strength of beating the flyers.That's a pretty good point. One too many passes on way too many plays (the whole team). And low-percentage passes. It's driving me nuts when they have the puck between the circles high in the slot and they're passing to the guy on the half boards. I started out thinking they were just being too cute. I still think it's some of that. But I think some of it now is another symptom of lack of confidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toughfighter83 Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 (edited) That's a pretty good point. One too many passes on way too many plays (the whole team). And low-percentage passes. It's driving me nuts when they have the puck between the circles high in the slot and they're passing to the guy on the half boards. I started out thinking they were just being too cute. I still think it's some of that. But I think some of it now is another symptom of lack of confidence.they have to get a new system with a new coach that get's the players to shoot more, that's the style they have to change, it's been this problem for years, they have to get a coach with a different approach, i think the gm has to go too, this team needs a new gm with new ideas that's been successful in the nhl that knows how to build a championship, it's pointless to do anything now, rather wait until the offseason, get rid of both coach and gm and have a new approach to the draft and fa. Edited March 15, 2013 by toughfighter83 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 they have to get a new system with a new coach that get's the players to shoot more, that's the style they have to change, it's been this problem for years, they have to get a coach with a different approach, i think the gm has to go too, this team needs a new gm with new ideas that's been successful in the nhl that knows how to build a championship, it's pointless to do anything now, rather wait until the offseason, get rid of both coach and gm and have a new approach to the draft and fa.Yeah, I think so on the coach and GM. Definitely the GM, and I think that will bring a different coach.I'm not sure it's Lavy that inspires "don't shoot." He seems like a shoot, shoot, shoot kind of guy. But they clearly are NOT shooting, so at best something is not getting from the locker room to the ice.I agree about waiting until the offseason. I don't see much point to doing anything now, especially if it's just the coach. If it's the GM, you MIGHT have an argument that you do it now so a new guy has some time to evaluate both the players and Lavy. But that assumes you can hire someone right away and I think it also limits who your options are.Somehow, I think Holmgren comes to the conclusion that it's the coach or him and fires the coach this weekend in an attempt to save his own job. I think it's dumb, and I think it's counterproductive (or at least pointless), but I think that's what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canoli Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 I don't see much point to doing anything now, especially if it's just the coach.now's the time to fire Lavy - if you're going to fire him. The team has just 3 games in the next 10 days (something like that) so there won't be a better opportunity to get someone new in, let him have some pratice time with the team, see if he can light a fire under them.I doubt anything will change, the Flyers will still miss the POs but at least you set yourself up for next year with a new HC and hopefully a much more balanced approach to the game. This whole puck pursuit idea is great but as many of you have pointed out we just don't have the horses - esp in goal and on D - to pull it off. Lavy's style is way too risky for this young bunch and our goalie is not up to the task of covering for the inevitable breakdowns and mistakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 There is a fundamental truth in virtually all of organized team sport:defense wins championships.Schemes based upon "offense first" rarely do. "Even" Lavy needed a Conn Smythe winning goaltender to pull it off. And I'm not so sure that Carolina defense is that much better guy-for-guy than our current top five...Oh, and a heart-and-soul, team-first, damn-the-torpedoes captain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 @radoranWhat you mean teams built on offense don't win? It worked well for the Eagles. Oh wait... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 @radoranWhat you mean teams built on offense don't win? It worked well for the Eagles. Oh wait...And Andy Reid was great at halftime adjustments.Did you see the other thread where I scared @JackStraw with this comparison - because he'd been thinking the same thing?Maybe we're all the same person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 Maybe we're all the same personWe are borg. Resistance is futile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 (edited) There is a fundamental truth in virtually all of organized team sport:defense wins championships.Schemes based upon "offense first" rarely do. "Even" Lavy needed a Conn Smythe winning goaltender to pull it off. And I'm not so sure that Carolina defense is that much better guy-for-guy than our current top five...Oh, and a heart-and-soul, team-first, damn-the-torpedoes captain.I hate to be the one to bring this up, but somebody has to be the bad guy and since Podein25 apparently is busy"tending the flock" I'll play the heel. The truth is, that Carolina team was not exactly a powerhouse. I'd say they were clearly the weakest Cup champions since the lockout of the previous year. They beat an Oilers team that had Pronger and Roloson, and not a whole lot else. They actually finished 8th in the conference that year and Pronger was their leading scorer in the playoffs.Now, a Cup championship is a Cup championship and I'm not suggesting that Carolina didn't deserve it. But if you are looking at that team as any kind of evidence of what Lavi could do now, with this team, and with the way game has evolved since then, I think you would be off base. Edited March 15, 2013 by JackStraw 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 We are borg. Resistance is futile.I am designated 42 of 27. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 And Andy Reid was great at halftime adjustments.Did you see the other thread where I scared @JackStraw with this comparison - because he'd been thinking the same thing?Maybe we're all the same person.That would mean that I'm the same person as rux...REPORTED! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 I hate to be the one to bring this up, but somebody has to be the bad guy and since Podein25 apparently is busy"tending the flock" I'll play the heel. The truth is, that Carolina team was not exactly a powerhouse. I'd say they were clearly the weakest Cup champions since the lockout of the previous year. They beat an Oilers team that had Pronger and Roloson, and not a whole lot else. They actually finished 8th in the conference that year and Pronger was their leading scorer in the playoffs.Now, a Cup championship is a Cup championship and I'm not suggesting that Carolina didn't deserve it. But if you are looking at that team as any kind of evidence of what Lavi could do now, with this team, and with the way game has evolved since then, I think you would be off base.C'mon, now, man. They beat Buffalo in the Conference Final. My point exactly is that that was a pretty weak team - but Lavy's "Cup Winning" resume is what got him the job here in Philadelphia...Not being the one to have hired Lavi, it was Homer who was off base.This is my shocked face: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 C'mon, now, man. They beat Buffalo in the Conference Final. My point exactly is that that was a pretty weak team - but Lavy's "Cup Winning" resume is what got him the job here in Philadelphia...Not being the one to have hired Lavi, it was Homer who was off base.This is my shocked face: Sweet fancy Moses! Your shocked face looks exactly like my shocked face! ... maybe we really are the same person? This is going to come as quite a surprise to my mom and dad! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirbylaw Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 and again we lost because we did not have a goal tender that could steal games only be average at best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 We are borg. Resistance is futile.I wouldn't resist Jeri Ryan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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