Suspension looming for B. Schenn

[ruxpin]

They can't watch their own games??? That should be easy.

I see your point, and I think they should do all of the above to maintain a good product.

I think the way they do it is better. Either based on the initial call--which wasn't there--or a complaint.

If not, could you imagine all of the after-the-fact nonsense that would go on if people were sitting somewhere and going through a game with a fine-toothed comb and meeting out punishments? That would be insanity. It HAS to be based on an on-ice call or a complaint.

[doom88]

I think the way they do it is better. Either based on the initial call--which wasn't there--or a complaint.

If not, could you imagine all of the after-the-fact nonsense that would go on if people were sitting somewhere and going through a game with a fine-toothed comb and meeting out punishments? That would be insanity. It HAS to be based on an on-ice call or a complaint.

I was going for more of an independent second look over the refs. If they see a knee called a charge, change it and review it.

[ruxpin]

I was going for more of an independent second look over the refs. If they see a knee called a charge, change it and review it.

But this is exactly what I'm talking about. I really don't want them doing it. It's a game played live, it should be called live. The league would have to know there was a knee called a trip. How do they know that off the score sheet? They don't. Someone needs to officially TELL them. That's the responsibility of the team.

Otherwise, you have to have some yahoo watching the tape of every game to make sure every call and missed call is "rectified" somehow. I can't say how much this would be a horrible mistake for the game to have someone auditing and changing crap independently and after the fact. In REALITY, the disaster from this would kill the game.

[doom88]

But this is exactly what I'm talking about. I really don't want them doing it. It's a game played live, it should be called live. The league would have to know there was a knee called a trip. How do they know that off the score sheet? They don't. Someone needs to officially TELL them. That's the responsibility of the team.

Otherwise, you have to have some yahoo watching the tape of every game to make sure every call and missed call is "rectified" somehow. I can't say how much this would be a horrible mistake for the game to have someone auditing and changing crap independently and after the fact. In REALITY, the disaster from this would kill the game.

I'm thinking more of a high-level situation, but I see your point about changing calls after the fact. Very wise and I agree.

Still, maybe set the threshold higher? I don't know, but there has to be some way to introduce more quality control for players/refs/product. I would put more thought into it, but I doubt it would make a difference anyway.

[flyercanuck]

I thought it was a 2 minute charging penalty and nothing more. It's hockey, not soccer or ballet.

[doom88]

I thought it was a 2 minute charging penalty and nothing more. It's hockey, not soccer or ballet.

I was hinting at the Rinaldo incident with that reference, but regarding B Schenn and hockey in general, agreed.

Although, with all the flopping, it is getting closer to soccer. The refs have to start their crusade against diving again.

[brelic]

I just watched the hit, and you know, I have no problems with it. Schenn has to be careful in the future about leaving his feet, because he's been suspended for it before, and it always gets people hysterical when a player leaves the ice.

But on that particular hit, looked close enough to be legit, and the skates up looked more like momentum follow through than any concerted effort to injure the player.

[flyercanuck]

I could see the ref thinking he left his feet. But I've seen a photo at the time of impact that shows his feet on the ground, and that's what Shanahan can see. Harrold turns into him bent over when Schenn is already committed to the hit. It wasn't even a bad charge, but I could see it called.

[canoli]

whatever you want to call it - a hockey play or "intent to injure" it was a dumb hit at a really bad time - tie game, couple minutes left. At that point you're supposed to be smarter than usual, knowing enough to avoid anything borderline that may put your team down a man.

I love the hit I just don't like the timing of it and the fact it was delivered by Schenn. He's got to be smarter than that.

[brelic]

whatever you want to call it - a hockey play or "intent to injure" it was a dumb hit at a really bad time - tie game, couple minutes left. At that point you're supposed to be smarter than usual, knowing enough to avoid anything borderline that may put your team down a man.

I love the hit I just don't like the timing of it and the fact it was delivered by Schenn. He's got to be smarter than that.

Yes, I agree he has to be smarter. But we're talking about a kid that all of 91 NHL games under his belt. He's young and learning the game. I would be more worried if a guy like Giroux or Gagne did that.

As an aside, how on earth did B Schenn manage to be a PPG player in the AHL this season (33 pts in 33 games) but be -14????

Ouch.

[flyercanuck]

Yes, I agree he has to be smarter. But we're talking about a kid that all of 91 NHL games under his belt. He's young and learning the game. I would be more worried if a guy like Giroux or Gagne did that.

As an aside, how on earth did B Schenn manage to be a PPG player in the AHL this season (33 pts in 33 games) but be -14????

Ouch.

Playing on a really crappy team that, guess who, assembled?

[hf101]

Hey, HF (and anyone else),

Have you read any of the comments on the video page? The Penn State guy is being fairly nice about it, but insists he didn't leave his feet or target the head. Says to look at 0:40 frame by frame.

I still see him leaving his feet AND targeting the head. Does anyone feel differently this morning?

It seems the league isn't going to pursue it, so am I completely looking at this wrong or do you think it's an even-up for the Carter hit?

I agree, I still see Schenn leaving his feet. However I'm guessing because it was only a 2min penalty, Harrold wasn't injured, and the head wasn't targeted. Devils probably didn't request anything.

[Polaris922]

I don't see it as the kind of hit where momentum pushes you upwards I guess. Looks like he launches his body into the guy. I have no problem with no suspension for it, but I think the penalty was correctly assessed.

[canoli]

a kid that all of 91 NHL games under his belt.

sorry but that's more than enough time to know better. That kind of hit at that point in a tie hockey game is a bad idea, it's an invitation to the official to sit you...maybe for 2 maybe even 5.

I don't want Schenn to change much just a little. Same situation I still want him to deliver the hit. But just before he gets there he needs to bend his knees slightly. It isn't hard. If he does that there's nothing borderline about it and play carries on. Instead Schenn stretches himself up to his fullest height - this is why he "leaves his feet OMG the Humanity" (according to Chico)...and why he was called for the penalty.

[ruxpin]

@canoli

LOL @ "OMG the Humanity"

Chico is ridiculous

[canoli]

LOL he really is, he's an embarrassment.

although I will give him credit for recognizing (and saying out loud) that Rinaldo's "boarding" call was complete b.s.

[jammer2]

@canoli HA HA....Chico is a joke, but like you said, he can have moments of fairness, but far and few between!

[TedZep]

The league has asked all teams to submit complaints on any questionable issues not directly addressed by the mandatory review policy. I don't see where protecting your players is "snitching" when that's the process put into place to do so.

I don't think it is the best process, since it means the GMs are expected to do the league's job. On any given night there are a handful or so games played. During any given game there are less than a handful of questionable calls, non-calls, "incidents", etc. Those segments are readily available very quickly to the general public, so the NHL should have even better access, and no excuse for not monitoring their product.

It's not just player safety, but also spot reviews of the officiating staff. If the officials get wind that certain GMs are complaining about their lack of consistency (and you know which fans I am talking about... me) then biased officiating could get even worse.

If the officials had called the play correctly, it would have been a major kneeing penalty and automatic review and likely suspension. They didn't, c'est la vie. With today's technology, there is no reason these kinds of blatant attempts to injure cannot be rectified before the next game.

Do you want the best product the NHL can provide? Then they need a better review process.

[Polaris922]

I don't think it is the best process, since it means the GMs are expected to do the league's job. On any given night there are a handful or so games played. During any given game there are less than a handful of questionable calls, non-calls, "incidents", etc. Those segments are readily available very quickly to the general public, so the NHL should have even better access, and no excuse for not monitoring their product.

It's not just player safety, but also spot reviews of the officiating staff. If the officials get wind that certain GMs are complaining about their lack of consistency (and you know which fans I am talking about... me) then biased officiating could get even worse.

If the officials had called the play correctly, it would have been a major kneeing penalty and automatic review and likely suspension. They didn't, c'est la vie. With today's technology, there is no reason these kinds of blatant attempts to injure cannot be rectified before the next game.

Do you want the best product the NHL can provide? Then they need a better review process.

They keep talking about it, but don't do anything about it. You'd think it wouldn't be too hard to review even just the penalties. How many in a normal game? 8? 10? How hard would it be for the league to review just the penalties to ensure the right calls are made?

Only down side I can see is... people would then say they should also review for calls that were missed. And that opens a whole new can of worms. Officials have a tough job, I won't argue that, and they make a lot of mistakes it seems... but I dunno that reviewing every possible call or missed call is the answer.

[ruxpin]

but I dunno that reviewing every possible call or missed call is the answer.

And do you know why it isn't the best answer? Because it would be ridiculously stupid.

None of the sports do it, because people with a third brain cell understand it's a live sporting event decided by two live teams and officiated by a handful of live officials. All of which are human. Part of the game is that occasionally a defender coughs up a puck, a goalie fails to make a save, a wide receiver drops a ball, a quarterback throws to the wrong guy, the shortstop fails to bear down on a grounder, and, yes, the umpire, ref or linesman blows a call. The clock runs out or the last out is made and everyone goes home. The fans of the winning team are happy and the fans of the losing team will find something to bitch about; whether it's Bill Buckner or Steve Bartman or Leon Stickle.

You can't have some schmuck sitting in some office somewhere after the fact reviewing every damn call. What does it change? Some guy gets suspended after the fact because Johnny Numbnuts can review a play frame by frame? Even a play that was deemed innocuous by the officials seeing it live? Let's leave the pencil-neck assholes where they belong: at medical insurance companies. Play the game on the ice or field or whatever and understand that as long as we don't have robots playing or officiating the game, as long as we have humans, that the very essence of the game will be error. Sometimes it's the players. Sometimes it's the officials. I have no problem whatsoever with a GM/team being able to send a complaint in or reporting an incident. The argument against this is foolish.

This "rant" isn't directed at you, but sometimes people have to just make it through puberty and realize life is not "fair" all the damn time. And it's certainly not perfect. Just move on and quit the whining.

[Polaris922]

@ruxpin

What do you think about the Coach's challenge idea??

[ruxpin]

@Polaris922

I don't like it.

I guess I'm a bit of a hockey purist where it comes to certain things. I'm not at all a fan of the shootout, for example. I hate it. It's an abortion.

I'm not a huge fan of video review at all. Even the limited version we already have.

I know the old song and dance routine: "Why don't we want them to get it right?"

Because "getting it right" isn't the point. If it was, we'd give the quarterback who just threw the interception a do-over. Or the left fielder who dropped the fly, or the jackass who over-slid the base. Or whatever

Maybe the Flyers carry the Cup in 1980 if Leon Stickle didn't have a such a brain fart. But it wasn't the game or series winner. There was time to overcome it.

Maybe the foot was in the crease. I don't see this as being much different than the forward missing the dunk or first baseman being drawn off the bag.

"But..but...they're OFFICIALS, they aren't the players!"

The officials are part of the equation. They are part of the game. So long as the mistakes are honest (not paid for by some mafia guy or whatever), then their mistakes are just as human as the players. It's all part of it.

I'd like to see it kept that way. This "let's all get it right" just isn't, and shouldn't be, the way the world works.

[jammer2]

@ruxpin I don't necessarily share your point of view on re-play, but I can really respect it.

[trevluk]

@Polaris922

I don't like it.

I guess I'm a bit of a hockey purist where it comes to certain things. I'm not at all a fan of the shootout, for example. I hate it. It's an abortion.

I'm not a huge fan of video review at all. Even the limited version we already have.

I know the old song and dance routine: "Why don't we want them to get it right?"

Because "getting it right" isn't the point. If it was, we'd give the quarterback who just threw the interception a do-over. Or the left fielder who dropped the fly, or the jackass who over-slid the base. Or whatever

Maybe the Flyers carry the Cup in 1980 if Leon Stickle didn't have a such a brain fart. But it wasn't the game or series winner. There was time to overcome it.

Maybe the foot was in the crease. I don't see this as being much different than the forward missing the dunk or first baseman being drawn off the bag.

"But..but...they're OFFICIALS, they aren't the players!"

The officials are part of the equation. They are part of the game. So long as the mistakes are honest (not paid for by some mafia guy or whatever), then their mistakes are just as human as the players. It's all part of it.

I'd like to see it kept that way. This "let's all get it right" just isn't, and shouldn't be, the way the world works.

Ruxpin - interesting perspective. you make valid points that any purist can identify with. I personally have felt like all sports should use technology to get a call right as long as it is practical. After listening to your points and being a purist at heart, I tend to agree with you so I will say that if a sport is to use technology to assist in getting calls right, then they should go all in and truly use technology to its utmost potential in expanded facets of the game OR they should drop it all together and live and die by human accuracy. I myself still lean towards using technology depsite being a moderate purist but I think that may be because I dont think I could handle the pain if a blown call or non-call directly lead to a Philly loss in a championship game. Imagine this scenario - the Flyers are in a game 7 SCF in over time and Giroux blasts a one timer off the rear crossbar that comes out as fast as it went in and and the other team collects the "rebound" and skates down the ice in an odd man rush and scores the Stanley Cup winning goal. The ref's call on the ice for Giroux's shot was no goal/off the post but instant replay clearly shows it went in. With instant replay we would finally and deservedly win the cup and end 38 years of heartbreak but without instant replay our Flyers and we fans would have to watch another team skate the cup in front of us yet again. The possibility of something like that happening is obviously minute but it is enough to make me think we should do whatever we can to get the call right.

Edited March 18, 2013 by trevluk

[doom88]

I hate the shootout too. With a burning passion.