Losing to the Syracuse Crunch; final straw for Lavy?

[Samifan]

6 kids from the AHL in the line-up and they outshine our high priced team! Six days off is enough time for a coaching change and a trade or two. Blow it up!

[ruxpin]

I think this was Lavy's last game, @Samifan

I don't agree with it. I really don't think this is on him. But now he's doing some desperate looking things, and he sounded completely defeated in the post game.

I think the announcement is tomorrow. I really do.

[albertaflyer]

To me there is just no reason to make a change at this point. Why not wait till the off season and get the coach you really want. Like I've said in other posts. This is more on Holmgren then Lavy. When I looked at this D when the season started I knew we were in trouble. Right now I' m really hoping for a high pick.

[JackStraw]

To me there is just no reason to make a change at this point. Why not wait till the off season and get the coach you really want. Like I've said in other posts. This is more on Holmgren then Lavy. When I looked at this D when the season started I knew we were in trouble. Right now I' m really hoping for a high pick.

Making a change now doesn't preclude hiring a new coach for next year. The reason for making a change now is to try to get some life into the team, some optimism for the future. Also, you spare Lavi the ordeal of having to ride out this season as a lame duck. That's assuming that you know you want to make a change. If management decides they want a new coach next year, it probably makes sense to bring in a temporary guy for the rest of the season. That will also send a message to the players that some of them might be playing for their jobs.

Homer has made some mistakes, but ultimately it's the coach's job to have the team prepared and playing good hockey every night. And this team hasn't even come close to doing that. I like Lavi and hoped he would succeed. But at this point he's looking more and more like a dead man walking.

[ruxpin]

Agree with @JackStraw

Look, people keep misconstruing my prediction that Lavy is going to be fired with advocating his being fired. I really just don't feel like this is Lavy's fault. Look, If you go into a hand of poker with a lousy hand, you're probably not going to win a lot. Sure, you can try to bluff your way to a win in poker, but the problem with the analogy is that in this case, the rest of the table can see your hand and KNOWS you have a lousy hand.

But some of the moves he's made recently reek of desperation. He seems to know he's on borrowed time. For the reasons Jack stated, and because I wonder if Holmgren himself isn't in "save my own job" mode, I can see this going down tomorrow. If it doesn't...if Lavy makes it through tomorrow...I think he's still behind the bench when next season begins.

Again, I'm not advocating firing Lavy. I don't agree with it. It's just that I feel like I've seen this movie before.

[Samifan]

I agree that Lavy should not be fired but Ed Snider and patient can never be used in the same sentence. Most of the blame should be on Holmgren from assembling this cast of characters. Snider will never consider firing Homer because he is a part of the Flyers good ol boy network. Lavy never played for the Flyers so he will take the fall.

[Mad Dog]

Both Holmgren and Lavy are responsible for this atrocity. Having watched the 2010 finals and watching this season, it is becoming clear to me that Lavy's biggest flaw is inability to manage goalies. I don't understand his desire to run Bryz to the ground. Bryz is not a good goaltender; I don't think that much is a shock to many at this point. But the coach is not doing his goalie any favor by trying to burn him out. This is just plain asinine.

The bigger concern is the team seemed to quit on this coach. I don’t see any inspiration or a sense of urgency in how this team has been playing almost since the season started.

[Phillygrump]

To me there is just no reason to make a change at this point. Why not wait till the off season and get the coach you really want. Like I've said in other posts. This is more on Holmgren then Lavy. When I looked at this D when the season started I knew we were in trouble. Right now I' m really hoping for a high pick.

I had mixed emotions about changing GMs, but I think now its time. It seems Holmgrien was good at evaluating forward talent but could not evaluate a Dman or Goalie at all.

Maybe its time to change to a guy who has had some success at that end now that we have a crop of good forwards and see about building the back end better.

[flyercanuck]

@Mad Dog

Maybe Laviolette is being told to play the high priced franchise saver?

[yave1964]

Sometimes even the best coach overstays his welcome, or cannot get his team to the next level. Lavy seems to have done a fine job, but is the team stuck in the mud, and can he get them out? In 12th place, is it time to write this year off and gear up for the next? Or do you think a change, ala the Blues last year with Hitchcock will pull these guys out of the doldrums in enough time to rescue the season? Tough, tough position

[ruxpin]

@Mad Dog

Maybe Laviolette is being told to play the high priced franchise saver?

That, and maybe there's no one else to play?

[flyercanuck]

That, and maybe there's no one else to play?

That, and....ah I got nothin!

[murraycraven]

I still think Lavy is safe honestly. If Lavy gets fired Homer has to go with him... Otherwise, I think Homer keeps Lavy around knowing full well if he fires him he is the goat. I look at this team and put all of this on Homer honestly. He went all in for the sweepstakes last FA and did not have a backup plan. This team is simply not that good...

[Mad Dog]

I think like Rux said, firing Lavy would not necessarily be a reflection of him doing a poor job. I think it would be more of an attempt to shake things up. The team has quit. It's obvious. Last year, there is no way the Flyers lose the game last night, or the game to the Pens they pissed away last week. There is just no drive, no fire with this team... I attended two games this season, and I am telling you the team is just not competing. And this team - even disregarding the horrid blue line - is better than their record or effort indicate.

The alternative, of course, is to ride this season out and make a clean break at the end of the season... since it won't make a huge difference. I think this season is a lost cause anyway, with this coach or a new one.

Homer, on the other hand, should've been fired this summer.

Edited March 19, 2013 by Mad Dog

[canoli]

The team has 3 games in the next 10 days - now's the time to make the change in HC.

The Flyers are 0-11 when Trailing After 1. Zero for 11 for chrissakes! That's not only a bad team but a whupped team. The "bad" - okay some of that is Homer's fault, no question, but the HC is ultimately responsible for the team's results. With the exception of a few scrubs we do have an NHL squad...I mean c'mon, there's more to 0-11 than just "we suck, we have no talent."

They are 4-12 on the road. Doesn't exactly scream PO Contender does it?

Fire Lavy, bring in a temporary HC and salvage some dignity for this season.

[edit: but don't salvage too much please (lol) - I'd like to see us pick near the top of the draft.]

Edited March 19, 2013 by canoli

[ruxpin]

@canoli

I've been defending Lavy, but when you put it like that....!

Good points.

[flyercanuck]

If theres a coaching change to be made, make it after the season is over. Trying to shake up this team accomplishes what? The ol' bandaid over the amputation trick that the franchise has been doing for decades? it hasn't worked for 25 years but maybe this time?

Ride out the season with what we have. If you can convince Briere or Timonen to waive their NMCs, then trade them. Start looking for a replacement now, but you've got months instead of days to find one. And pray to God the team finishes bottom 5. Stop this "gotta make the playoffs EVERY year" bs. It's not winning any championships.

[canoli]

yeah it's taken me awhile to "get it" - I admit. 2 seasons ago there were smarter posters than me saying Lavy's system (the dreaded "system" threads) was imbalanced, that there was no emphasis on D, Team D, and that this was not a SC-winning formula.

And everyone saw how much his Offense-Only style consumes the players' energies, going all-out shift after shift.

I guess when it's working it looks fabulous but when your goal scorers like Briere and the rest can't find the back of the net...and your goaltender lets in a goal on practically every defensive mistake....the legs get tired real quickly. And shortly after that the brain just kinda tunes out I guess.

[radoran]

The bigger concern is the team seemed to quit on this coach. I don’t see any inspiration or a sense of urgency in how this team has been playing almost since the season started.

I wonder if they quit on the "organization" more than the coach.

I know everyone reveres "Mister Snider" and all, but this guy has been at the forefront of all the questionable contract shenanigans which he then LOCKED THE PLAYERS OUT to stop.

If these guys are going to lose all sense of hope because they don't have any faith in their goalie (a popular theory), then what if they don't have any faith in their owner?

[brelic]

yeah it's taken me awhile to "get it" - I admit. 2 seasons ago there were smarter posters than me saying Lavy's system (the dreaded "system" threads) was imbalanced, that there was no emphasis on D, Team D, and that this was not a SC-winning formula.

And everyone saw how much his Offense-Only style consumes the players' energies, going all-out shift after shift.

I guess when it's working it looks fabulous but when your goal scorers like Briere and the rest can't find the back of the net...and your goaltender lets in a goal on practically every defensive mistake....the legs get tired real quickly. And shortly after that the brain just kinda tunes out I guess.

I know it's easy to look back and say, "Well, it worked in 2010, we almost won the Cup with worse goaltending!". I still maintain that it was the perfect combination of Stevens' defense-first style that was still firmly imprinted on the team, but with a fresh new freedom to pursue offensive opportunities under Laviolette. Three seasons later, most of the personnel is gone, yes, but it's also now the only 'system' in town.

In Carolina, Laviolette was there for 4 seasons. He won the SC, yes. But he missed the playoffs in the other 3 seasons, including the season right after winning the Cup. He was fired in his 5th season. They caught lightning in a bottle and Ward was hot at the right time. So, not exactly a great track record.

I was all for getting Laviolette when Stevens was gone, but I was probably a bit blinded by my hatred for excessive cake baking.

Looking at it now as objectively as I can, however, his record in PHilly isn't great either. SCF in his first season but with the Stevens legacy still left over. ANd then two consecutive 2nd round exits, followed by (most likely) missing the playoffs this season.

We have dropped in the standings in each successive year under Laviolette as well (1st in Atlantic, 106 pts; 3rd in Atlantic, 103 pts; 5th in Atlantic so far this year).

This week will be a telling one either way.

[canoli]

ya - all good points. Again, smarter folks than me were saying basically what you just said about Lavy in Carolina. And it's not like Lavy was supporting Ward all along - he only went with him because Gerber let in NINE goals in the first game-and-a-half in R1 (vs the Habs).

I don't know how much is accomplished by firing Lavy this week but I think whatever it is it's worth it. His time is finished in Philly; it seems to me the players *must* have tuned him out. You can't go 0-11 when Trailing After 1 and not realize the HC is at least somewhat responsible. I mean that's pathetic. 40 minutes to play and your team hasn't come back to win even once when they've been down?

[ruxpin]

What's kind of amazing to me is that this is the same coach who somehow got his players to come back from 1-3 in games against Boston and down 0-3 in game 7.

Maybe there IS something to the mix from what Stevens was doing and what Lavy was doing.

Maybe it's the change in assistant coaches, too. I don't know, but @canoli is right. 0-11 when trailing after one period is disgusting.

[Mad Dog]

I wonder if they quit on the "organization" more than the coach.

It's possible, I guess... But I wonder if players really think that deeply. They would've gotten locked out regardless what team they were playing for at the time it happened. I am not sure how many of these players actually care about a moral character of an owner who writes them a check.

But I will say this, now that you brought this up. I vividly remember when Timonen and Hartnell came in here, they asked Homer how long the "rebuilding" process he expected to last. And Homer, extending on the Snider's "we don't know what rebuild is" sentiment probably assured them the Flyers had no intention to rebuild. I remember Timonen especially sounded very concerned with not playing for a rebuilding team due to his age.... Now almost 7 years after they both came in here, the Flyers are no closer (if not further) from winning the Cup than in 2007. I have to think *that* must make them feel pissed since both could've chosen just about any team at that time and won the Cup by now. I can concede they may be feeling betrayed by the incompetence of the GM... But the owner? I doubt that.

Edited March 19, 2013 by Mad Dog

[toughfighter83]

maybe it's the same with eagles, they just want to play for a paycheck, nothing else, hartnell overpaid, briere overpaid, mez overpaid, coburn overpaid, i hope homer goes because he's probably going overpay for fas or get retreads,instead of getting the right players from winning teams.

[Mad Dog]

You can't go 0-11 when Trailing After 1 and not realize the HC is at least somewhat responsible. I mean that's pathetic. 40 minutes to play and your team hasn't come back to win even once when they've been down?

What I also begin to wonder is whether these particular players on the Flyers team have a winning mentality. People (probably myself included) used to complain about Carter and Richards possibly dragging the team down and providing a bad influence in the locker room. Ok, so the team went out and got read of what could've been a bad influence. What now? Coach or not, you are playing for one another. And above all, you a re a profesisonal athlete who are paid HUGE money to go out and give it all you've got.

So I repeat my question. Are these the players who have a winning mindset? I really question whether this collection of players really care whether they win games or not. Because you know.... if not, bringing a new coach won't solve that issue.

Edited March 19, 2013 by Mad Dog