Losing to the Syracuse Crunch; final straw for Lavy?

[toughfighter83]

What I also begin to wonder if whether these particular players on the Flyers team have a winning mentality. People (probably myslef included) used to complain about Carter and Richards possibly dragging the team down and providing a bad influence in teh locker room. Ok, so te hteam got read of what could've been bad influence. What now? Coach or not, you are playing for one another. And above all, you a re a profesisonal athlete who are paid HUGE money to go out and give it all you've got.

So I repeat my question. Are these the players who have a winning mindset? I really question whether this collection of players really care whether they win games or not. Because you know.... if not, bringing a new coach won't solve that issue.

exactly, that's why a new gm is needed, bring players from winning teams that want to win.

[radoran]

It's possible, I guess... But I wonder if players really think that deeply. They would've gotten locked out regardless what team they were playing for at the time it happened. I am not sure how many of these players actually care about a moral character of an owner who writes them a check.

But I will say this, now that you brought this up. I vividly remember when Timonen and Hartnell came in here, they asked Homer how long the "rebuilding" process he expected to last. And Homer, extending on the Snider's "we don't know what rebuild is" sentiment probably assured them the Flyers had no intention to rebuild. I remember Timonen especially sounded very concerned with not playing for a rebuilding team due to his age.... Now almost 7 years after they both came in here, the Flyers are no closer (if not further) from winning the Cup than in 2007. I have to think *that* must make them feel pissed since both could've chosen just about any team at that time and won the Cup by now. I can concede they may be feeling betrayed by the incompetence of the GM... But the owner? I doubt that.

Despite being hockey players, these guys aren't all dolts. And, as rod will tell us, union members tend to have long memories.

Witness Tim Thomas and Jeremy Jacobs. Conflicts with owners aren't at all rare.

"Mister" Snider practically IS the Flyers. He's the guy that hired Homer. He was the poster owner for "hardliners." He's the guy that blew up the team that went to the Finals. He's the guy who brought in Bryzgalov. He's the guy that signed the contracts with Hartnell and Simmnods and then turned around demanding that they take a 20% cut - immediately.

I think there is ample reason to suspect that there might be a *contributing factor* in the owner's box.

There's no "one thing" that has created this mess.

Unless you want to say it was Snider.

[ruxpin]

@mad dog

Well, Timo did make it to the finals, so it's not exactly "promises broken." Okay, so they made it there quite by accident, but they still made it.

[canoli]

Are these the players who have a winning mindset? I really question whether this collection of players really care whether they win games or not.

Wait, you mean in general? Or care whether this team wins games?

In general - you don't make it to the NHL without a strong, more-than-most-guys competitive streak; you reach pro-level hockey you care about winning.

as far as these Flyers ... yeah it doesn't look like anyone besides Wayne, Zac and Jake really give much of a damn any more.

Giroux is a special case - He's got a lot going on this year ... new captain, holes in the lineup that are plain to see (including the #1 goaltender) and a HC who doesn't seem capable of adjusting his approach... I'm sure Giroux "cares" about winning as much as ever...maybe even more so (if that's possible) this year as captain.

I don't put any of this failure on "lack of effort" or "lack of heart" or any of that b.s. - up until about a week ago. Now I see that "lack" starting to creep into their game...this may get *really* ugly from here on out.

[ruxpin]

What I also begin to wonder is whether these particular players on the Flyers team have a winning mentality.

I don't think this is it. I wouldn't have any idea so I'm not really arguing with the point, but I would suspect that it's lack of skill for some, lack of confidence due to the lack of skill of the others, and it may very well be a philosophy/system problem. It just seems to me that so many players are having such brain cramps, etc. I think it's the Barber "work harder" thing with no cohesive direction. The more I'm talking about this, the more I'm slowly moving to the idea that a coaching change might actually be part of the solution.

[Samifan]

I was all for getting Laviolette when Stevens was gone, but I was probably a bit blinded by my hatred for excessive cake baking.

LOL@ Brelic- Hatred for excessive cake baking might just be the line of the season!

[Howie58]

The team has 3 games in the next 10 days - now's the time to make the change in HC.

The Flyers are 0-11 when Trailing After 1. Zero for 11 for chrissakes! That's not only a bad team but a whupped team. The "bad" - okay some of that is Homer's fault, no question, but the HC is ultimately responsible for the team's results. With the exception of a few scrubs we do have an NHL squad...I mean c'mon, there's more to 0-11 than just "we suck, we have no talent."

They are 4-12 on the road. Doesn't exactly scream PO Contender does it?

Fire Lavy, bring in a temporary HC and salvage some dignity for this season.

[edit: but don't salvage too much please (lol) - I'd like to see us pick near the top of the draft.]

Canoli:

It is painful to watch this team. They are boring.

The thread title speaks to the really sad part. Lavy may be 25% of the problem. Homer is the deeper issue. At least they have a farm club that can field six players who can be a coherent threat. Our Phantoms are a spent force.

Bryz is just too inconsistent. I think he needs to go. That's another of our Homer gifts.

I have to laugh. While watching last night I got a call from my University's president. Normally I would be scared...layoffs, whatever. It was more personal...and I was glad to shut the O and B off.

Peace and don't get too upset over this. I am seeing that our commitment may not be matched by management's wisdom.

Howie

[canoli]

Peace and don't get too upset over this. I am seeing that our commitment may not be matched by management's wisdom.

words of wisdom Howie, as always - thanks. You're right, the fans deserve better. I'm not one of these "everything but the Cup is a failure" fans but the mistakes our GM(s) make are so predictable, so one-track-minded... the fans have a right to expect better or at least "different" at this point. We're talking decades of this same approach...and while it has produced some great results occasionally the players that achieve them are quickly abandoned to bring in the next combination of prospects and "difference-makers" who will supposedly win us the Cup. Rinse and repeat.

Does anyone have confidence the Flyers will pull a 180 and resist buying (renting) another Big FA? Resist trading away Couturier for a "stud" like Bouwmeester? I can easily see that happening - Couts for Bouwmeester and the Flyers will call it a win. We'll hear how JB brings "much needed help on D" blahblahblah...

[canoli]

Peace and don't get too upset over this. I am seeing that our commitment may not be matched by management's wisdom.

words of wisdom Howie, as always - thanks. You're right, the fans deserve better. I'm not one of these "everything but the Cup is a failure" fans but the mistakes our GM(s) make are so predictable, so one-track-minded... the fans have a right to expect better or at least "different" at this point. We're talking decades of this same approach...and while it has produced some great results occasionally the players that achieve them are quickly abandoned to bring in the next combination of prospects and "difference-makers" who will supposedly win us the Cup. Rinse and repeat.

Does anyone have confidence the Flyers will pull a 180 and resist buying (renting) another Big FA? Resist trading away Couturier for a "stud" like Bouwmeester? I can easily see that happening - Couts for Bouwmeester and the Flyers will call it a win. We'll hear how JB brings "much needed help on D" blahblahblah... Rinse and Repeat.

[Mad Dog]

@canoli

@ruxpin

Yes, these players, of course, not in general...

I don't know... I just see some bad traits in this team's conduct this year, something that I have not been observing before. Not making that extra two steps to reach for a loose puck, not making fast changes when going to the bench, not playing solid D, not fore-checking.... I mean yes, all this may be indicative of the team quitting on the coach, but like I said, you first play for each other and you are a professional, which is why I am saying playing this way should be unacceptable to those who have a winning mentality.

It is also becoming clear to me that the lack of leadership is quite glaring.

Edited March 19, 2013 by Mad Dog

[brelic]

LOL@ Brelic- Hatred for excessive cake baking might just be the line of the season!

Heh It was all a bit much. Remember the Shooter Tutor he brought in?

[Samifan]

Shooter tutor was classic. What about when Stevens played musical chairs in the lockerroom so people "could get to know one another" 60 games into the season!

[ruxpin]

Heh It was all a bit much. Remember the Shooter Tutor he brought in?

I just sat watching that for awhile thinking "must look away. must look away. MUST LOOK AWAY!" But couldn't. Funny stuff.

[brelic]

Shooter tutor was classic. What about when Stevens played musical chairs in the lockerroom so people "could get to know one another" 60 games into the season!

Bwahaha. And your name just reminded me of Kapanen shaving his head in the name of unity! I love how no one else did it.

[ruxpin]

Kapanen shaving his head in the name of unity!

I don't know why, and it probably says a lot about my level of psychosis, but I read that "...in the name of nudity."

[flyercanuck]

@ruxpin

You read it right rux. Kapanen shaved his head in the name of nudity!

[brelic]

I don't know why, and it probably says a lot about my level of psychosis, but I read that "...in the name of nudity."

You see what you wanna see ANd seeing Kapanen's white Finnish butt running around is not what I wanna see!

[jammer2]

I think Lavi should go at this point, but don't think he will for one reason. If Homer removes Lavi, it takes out the natural buffer zone between him and getting fired. If he cans Lavi, he's saying blah, blah, blah...essentially, "the team needs to go in another direction", maybe even the ol' "he lost the room" .....but you only get to do that once, then he is in the scopes sights, so essentially, delaying firing Lavi allows Homer's clock to not start ticking. RIght now, if (behind the scenes) he blames it on Bryz and the defense, we all know Byrz was not really his decision, as does Mr.Snider.....so in theory, he should get a chance to rectify that situation....then the clock gets started for real. Homer and Lavi, as a team can claim they got stuck with a lame duck goalie, and ask for more time to fix that mess. If Homer and Lavi are not a team and Homer cans him, he is the next one on the chopping block, and I'm not sure Homer want's to travel down that road until he absolutley has to.

[ruxpin]

maybe even the ol' "he lost the room" .....but you only get to do that once,

Mr. Clarke says "nanny nanny boo boo, I did it 14 times!"

[Howie58]

words of wisdom Howie, as always - thanks. You're right, the fans deserve better. I'm not one of these "everything but the Cup is a failure" fans but the mistakes our GM(s) make are so predictable, so one-track-minded... the fans have a right to expect better or at least "different" at this point. We're talking decades of this same approach...and while it has produced some great results occasionally the players that achieve them are quickly abandoned to bring in the next combination of prospects and "difference-makers" who will supposedly win us the Cup. Rinse and repeat.

Does anyone have confidence the Flyers will pull a 180 and resist buying (renting) another Big FA? Resist trading away Couturier for a "stud" like Bouwmeester? I can easily see that happening - Couts for Bouwmeester and the Flyers will call it a win. We'll hear how JB brings "much needed help on D" blahblahblah...

The lead thread as we speak...should Jagr come back...yikes.

Have some merlot with the canoli!

[canoli]

Unreal. Well what the hell we're obviously just One-Winger-Away from a deep PO run. Jagr was super-duper awesome last year ... until springtime rolled around. But it'll be different this time I'm sure of it. (I'm still holding out for Bouwmeester though)

My sweet lord. Pass the whiskey! Merlot? That'll work too!

[BearOnIce]

To me there is just no reason to make a change at this point. Why not wait till the off season and get the coach you really want. Like I've said in other posts. This is more on Holmgren then Lavy. When I looked at this D when the season started I knew we were in trouble. Right now I' m really hoping for a high pick.

It is Snider and Holmgren. Laviolette is working with what he was dealt.

Hard to do anything offensively without having anything defensively.

[doom88]

I want to keep Lavy, if only to ensure Ruff isn't hired.

[ruxpin]

I want to keep Lavy, if only to ensure Ruff isn't hired.

Hear hear. Worthless piece of crap. I will never understand why a hockey fan would ever mention him in a positive way, let alone a Flyer fan.

But honestly, I just don't see Holmgren or Snider ever bringing this douche on. If for some reason the choice was down to Lindy Ruff or Sean Avery to be the next HC in Philly, I'd pick Avery.

[doom88]

@ruxpin

At that point I rather a player-coach. Slapshot style.