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Couturier to 4th line in Tampa game


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I believe this is a good move. He is now -11 and has struggled mightly. I'd rather he be taking the league by storm but until then scale his play time back until his game comes returns.

He had the least amount of ice time of all players.

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Couturier can be a valuable player in this league. He proved that last year at just 19. He's so young, and everyone just needs to be patient. Aside from the fundamental problems with his game (his skating), it seems to be a problem of confidence right now.

I don't know whether it wouldn't be such a bad idea to send him down to the Phantoms. He could get 1st line minutes with no pressure. Or would such a demotion destroy his ego? Young players...tough to know how to handle them.

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it seems to be your run of the mill sophomore slump... um... i hope. actually, i think there is some cause for concern. he's already hit bottom and he's starting to dig. it's pretty amazing, but i'm still hopeful this is all just the other shoe dropping from his phenomenal play last year. it's just plain and simply weird how he can be sooo bad right now.

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it seems to be your run of the mill sophomore slump... um... i hope. actually, i think there is some cause for concern. he's already hit bottom and he's starting to dig. it's pretty amazing, but i'm still hopeful this is all just the other shoe dropping from his phenomenal play last year. it's just plain and simply weird how he can be sooo bad right now.

I've been defending him all year and will probably continue to, but he looks really bad. He looks utterly lost out there like he's not sure what he's supposed to do. Deer in headlights on a lot of shifts. I don't understand because I didn't notice his skating at all last year and seemed to have such a hockey IQ. He's young so I'm holding out hope that it's the sophomore thing or confidence or whatever, but it's really ugly out there.

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yeah... it's just very strange how far he could go in the other direction. I mean, i didn't really expect him to just repeat last year and build on it right away. but, by the same token, i really didn't expect him to slide THIS far in the other direction. it's like he's sean's twin who actually doesn't know how to play.

Maybe he's got mono again!?

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I know you were joking, but it's as good a guess as any. Sounds like you're at as much a loss as I am. I just don't get it.

I wonder if there is any chance there is a substance abuse issue? I too think he looks totally lost out there and his overall play this year vs last year is night and day. I was so excited to have this kid on our team after what I saw last year but he needs to show us something again.

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I'm not suggusting we give up on him just yet but I think we should be concerned. He had a good year last year and I was looking forward to him getting in the gym and working on some things. Instead, it looks like he got even skinnier and I think that really effected his skating. It seems like he does a lot of coasting and always gets there a second late. He seems to be the guy in every replay of the opposing team's goals, just staring and not being where he should be. If I were the coaching staff, I'd get him in the gym as soon as the season ends.

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He is still young and I think the success he had last year was from the 4th line for the most part. So I think having him back there again will not be the worst thing in the world. If the AHL team wasn't so bad perhaps he goes back but at this point I don't think it is worth it either.

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Do you think we should be concerned there or just sophomore slump?

Good question. He was a PPG player in the AHL during the lockout, so it's not like he just forgot how to play hockey or lost his confidence. Something just isn't clicking this year at the NHL level. I hope it's just a sophomore slump.

The only thing that has me concerned is his skating/foot speed. He looks like he's skating in molasses most nights, and I honestly don't know if that will improve over time. You can get by in the CHL and AHL with subpar skating, but not the NHL. That's the kind of thing that would limit his ceiling to, say 3rd line center in the mold of Handzus.

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@ Brelic - Handzus is exactly what I see at this time! Being compared to a guy how has played nearly 1,000 nhl games (if my source is correct) is not exactly a bad thing in general however it is for a highly drafted 1st rounder.

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I'd say basically everyone on the team has taken a step back, except Voracek, Simmonds, Schenn and Bryz (cause he can't go any further back). Couturiers step back puts him down to where he should be, AHL level. He's 20 for crying out loud. The guy picked before him is still playing junior. The guy picked 3 spots before him is still in junior. Four of the 7 picked in front of him stayed in junior last year. He has more points in the NHL than everyone in the draft but the top 2 picks, who in a season and a half have managed less than 30 points more than Couturier. Doug Hamilton is having a nice season on a great team with really good defence, good defensive forwards and solid goaltending. Anyone who thinks he'd look that good on this team is only fooling themselves. Couturier will be fine.

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He seems to be the guy in every replay of the opposing team's goals, just staring and not being where he should be. If I were the coaching staff, I'd get him in the gym as soon as the season ends.

Yes, he is in nearly every replay seemingly. Not a bad idea on the gym.

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I'd say basically everyone on the team has taken a step back, except Voracek, Simmonds, Schenn and Bryz (cause he can't go any further back). Couturiers step back puts him down to where he should be, AHL level. He's 20 for crying out loud. The guy picked before him is still playing junior. The guy picked 3 spots before him is still in junior. Four of the 7 picked in front of him stayed in junior last year. He has more points in the NHL than everyone in the draft but the top 2 picks, who in a season and a half have managed less than 30 points more than Couturier. Doug Hamilton is having a nice season on a great team with really good defence, good defensive forwards and solid goaltending. Anyone who thinks he'd look that good on this team is only fooling themselves. Couturier will be fine.

I think the expectation was just that he'd look the same, maybe slightly better than last year. That's a fair expectation, although not this year for the reason you point out... *this* team. Losing Jagr, and JVR to other teams, and Hartnell and Read to extended injuries led to Couturier being exposed a fair bit more. He's gone from 14:08 ATOI last year to 16:22 this year. That's a big jump for a 20 year old.

What do you think about his skating? Is that something that he can improve at his age and level? Is it even something we should be concerned with?

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His smarts can make up a lot for his skating. And he is a smart player. Bringing a kid up to a good team can be a confidence boost. Playing on a crap team can have the opposite effect. He should be playing in the AHL just like most guys who end up in the NHL. The Flyers are one of the worst organizations for rushing players and then getting rid of them cause they didn't meet expectations after a couple of years. Meanwhile franchises who actually win cups bring up their prospects slowly. He may never match his junior pecking order, but he's got way too much skill and smarts to not make it in the NHL. If he was fast he wouldn't have been around for us to pick. I don't know if he can improve his skating at this age or not. Chara did it as well as a few others. Most are what you see is what you get by 20 years of age.

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@brelic

I think there are somethings Sean can do to help his skating, He may never be Eric Wellwood or Harry buy a vowel, but he can improve his explosiveness through targeted weight training and i'm sure there are drills that can help improve his crossovers, i don't think he's a lost cause, i think he had a terrible sophomore year and expect him to improve, you can't teach his brains and vision. Get him in touch with Ray Lewis and the deer antler PED guys...

Edited by mojo1917
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Maybe Briere's lazy habits are wearing off on him. Call it the reverse-Jagr. Doesn't Couturier live with Briere? If so, maybe he should go with G instead.

So G can teach him what he learned living with Briere?

Or maybe how to get held to 0g, 3a, -2 in five of the biggest, most important games of the season?

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So G can teach him what he learned living with Briere?

Or maybe how to get held to 0g, 3a, -2 in five of the biggest, most important games of the season?

I was going to go with effort and work ethic. Without effort, you don't stand a chance in the NHL. Without work ethic, you'll never improve. See Briere.

And hey, if your logic holds, all Jagr did was teach players how to get hurt all the time.

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I was going to go with effort and work ethic. Without effort, you don't stand a chance in the NHL. Without work ethic, you'll never improve. See Briere.

And hey, if your logic holds, all Jagr did was teach players how to get hurt all the time.

Danny Briere, given his size, has had to work much harder than most NHL players. he went from a guy who couldn't crack a roster to one that demanded a huge contract in Philadelphia as a prized free agent.

And I was riffing off your logic about Briere's supposed influence.

If your captain is held to just three assists in five of the most crucial games of the season, what's that say about "work ethic"?

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I believe this is a good move. He is now -11 and has struggled mightly. I'd rather he be taking the league by storm but until then scale his play time back until his game comes returns.

He had the least amount of ice time of all players.

I think the Flyers should do with him what they do with all their young players who struggle .....TRADE HIM!

this is the 100% sure fire way to ensure he will go on to be a very valuable NHL player

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Danny Briere, given his size, has had to work much harder than most NHL players. he went from a guy who couldn't crack a roster to one that demanded a huge contract in Philadelphia as a prized free agent.

And I was riffing off your logic about Briere's supposed influence.

If your captain is held to just three assists in five of the most crucial games of the season, what's that say about "work ethic"?

The league changed, and allowed tiny guys like Briere a chance by reducing obstruction. His offense flourished, but the reason he struggled to stay in the NHL was his lack of defense in Phoenix. Which, he still refuses to do today. He's talented offensively, just so *****g lazy. Just pisses me off.

I have no idea what's wrong with G to be honest. My only guess is that mysterious head/neck injury during the lockout. He's moving out there, but pucks sure aren't going in.

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Danny Briere, given his size, has had to work much harder than most NHL players. he went from a guy who couldn't crack a roster to one that demanded a huge contract in Philadelphia as a prized free agent.

And I was riffing off your logic about Briere's supposed influence.

If your captain is held to just three assists in five of the most crucial games of the season, what's that say about "work ethic"?

You go from "Danny Briere, given his size, has had to work much harder than most NHL players. he went from a guy who couldn't crack a roster to one that demanded a huge contract in Philadelphia as a prized free agent" to knocking Girouxs game? Giroux couldn't even get an OHL gig and had to go to the Q. He put up over 100 points and was still a reach at #22 . He's been told his whole life he's too small. He also settled for less money than he could have got to re-sign with the Flyers.

Giroux has had a tough season, along with just about everyone else on this team. But he's taken a lot less games off since he's been here than Briere, by far. He still makes his line a force, whereas Briere has become a joke. And as good as Brieres PPG are in postseason with the Flyers, Girouxs are better. Giroux deserves critisism, no doubt. But Briere deserves more, way more.

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@flyercanuck

Yes, giving facts about players is perfectly acceptable.

And those are the hard, cold facts of G's play in five of what the team called the most important games of the season.

0g, 3a, -2 - two games without even a hit; one without even a shot

Hartnell just called them out for being "OK" - which, if Bryz had said it, would be cause for a giant wailing and gnashing of teeth.

This team has played like crap all season and the captain has been right there with them.

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