Corey Perry signed...

[brelic]

The Flyers are "paying" Briere $7M for that production this season. But they also set up the contract to "pay" $3M and $2M in the next season. In that situation, they were expecting his production to decline.

This is ALL on their attempts to circumvent the cap. And anyone who doesn't think they were deliberately trying to circumvent the cap either works for the NHL, the Flyers or should be interested in this great deal on a bridge I've got between Manhattan and Brooklyn.

Fair point about the pay structure. BUt it's a moot point where the cap is concerned. I wonder how the Getzlaf/Perry deals are structured, given the new rules (what is it... no more than 50% variation from highest to lowest year?).

And, yes, I completely agree that it was all in an effort to circumvent the cap. That's the annoying part. The cap is forcing GMs to make really bad deals (though many were making bad deals way before the cap!).

[radoran]

Fair point about the pay structure. BUt it's a moot point where the cap is concerned. I wonder how the Getzlaf/Perry deals are structured, given the new rules (what is it... no more than 50% variation from highest to lowest year?).

Sure, but the Flyers were paying more up front for higher production. And they got it. The point that if 2010 goes differently, we are looking at a "retire a Flyer" Briere instead of a "trade for bag of pucks" Briere is a valid one.

And, yes, I completely agree that it was all in an effort to circumvent the cap. That's the annoying part. The cap is forcing GMs to make really bad deals (though many were making bad deals way before the cap!).

Getzlaf is $6.5M next season, as high as $9.25M and ends in 20-21 at $6M. in the $6.5M year, there is a $2M signing bonus and in the last year there is a $3M signing bonus.

And, to be clear, GMs don't HAVE to make those sorts of deals. They CHOOSE to. Nobody "forced" Snider to give Bryz that contract and then tie it up with a NMC bow.

[flyercanuck]

@toughfighter83

Pretty sure Giroux was Holmgrens pick. Clarke was gm, but I think Holmgren talked him into taking him. I doubt Clarke forgets his own 1st round picks name. I also liked the return on the Richards and Carter deals. Getting younger quality and quantity is as good as drafting well.

But point taken.

[flyercanuck]

There is a substantial difference between "building through the draft" and doing nothing but drafting players.

Anaheim, for example, drafted Getzlaf (19) and Perry (28) in the same year and has added Ryan (2).

Imagine if the Flyers had drafted a young core in the first round and then added a second overall pick.

Wait, the Flyers did have that core. All of those pieces were dealt. Two have a Cup and the other is among the league leaders in scoring.

The Flyers seem to change direction every 2-3 years. They have just eight players - including Boucher/Leighton and there-and-back-again Gagne - who were on the team in the 2010 Cup run. So, really, five.

This team has made decisions it "had to make" over and over again. Assuming they "had" to make those decisions, it seems the decisions made were at least questionable.

If nothing else, it shows the difference between Anaheim's way of doing things and the Flyers' way.

Ducks are 20 years old and have half as many Cups as the Flyers.

Of course theres a difference.

We could have added another high pick following the JVR draft (Stamkos? Doughty,? Pietrangelo? Karlsson?) but HAD to sign Briere. I basically threw my cards in the air when they did that. Trading Carter and Richards was fine if you're going the rebuild route. We received a heck of a haul from that trade. But doing that and signing Bryz was rebuilding and going for it at the same time, which you can't.

[brelic]

Sure, but the Flyers were paying more up front for higher production. And they got it. The point that if 2010 goes differently, we are looking at a "retire a Flyer" Briere instead of a "trade for bag of pucks" Briere is a valid one.

Getzlaf is $6.5M next season, as high as $9.25M and ends in 20-21 at $6M. in the $6.5M year, there is a $2M signing bonus and in the last year there is a $3M signing bonus.

And, to be clear, GMs don't HAVE to make those sorts of deals. They CHOOSE to. Nobody "forced" Snider to give Bryz that contract and then tie it up with a NMC bow.

I don't want to rehash the entire discussion on the board about this during the lockout, but I will just say that in a way, they are forced to. Sure, they 'chose' to sign him now, and to those terms. But had they 'chosen' not to, Getzlaf would have tested the free market, and some other GM would have 'chosen' to give him an obscene contract even worse than he has now.

So, in a way, the prospect of losing their franchise player for essentially nothing 'forced' Anaheim into making that deal.

In Perry's case, he also has a full NMC that comes into effect immediately. I am willing to bet just about anything that Perry and his agent demanded the NMC. So tell me how the team has any power over Perry? He has guaranteed money over the next 8 years, and there's nothing the Ducks can do without Perry's consent. Seems kinda lopsided, no? And if the Ducks hadn't 'chosen' to do that, other GMs would have been lining up to nab him.

It's a very weird and almost untenable dynamic that exists in the NHL.

[radoran]

I don't want to rehash the entire discussion on the board about this during the lockout, but I will just say that in a way, they are forced to. Sure, they 'chose' to sign him now, and to those terms. But had they 'chosen' not to, Getzlaf would have tested the free market, and some other GM would have 'chosen' to give him an obscene contract even worse than he has now.

So, in a way, the prospect of losing their franchise player for essentially nothing 'forced' Anaheim into making that deal.

In Perry's case, he also has a full NMC that comes into effect immediately. I am willing to bet just about anything that Perry and his agent demanded the NMC. So tell me how the team has any power over Perry? He has guaranteed money over the next 8 years, and there's nothing the Ducks can do without Perry's consent. Seems kinda lopsided, no? And if the Ducks hadn't 'chosen' to do that, other GMs would have been lining up to nab him.

It's a very weird and almost untenable dynamic that exists in the NHL.

Absolutely. But sometimes the best deals are the ones you don't make.

Shea Weber says "hi". Chris Drury. Scott Gomez. Mike Rathje. Wade Redden. Ilya Bryzgalov. Rick DiPietro. Alex Ovechkin. Ville Leino. Anything having to do with Dave Waddell, Scott Howson or Mike Milbury.

Many on this very board were salivating over the prospect of getting Getzlaf. Or Perry. Or Ryan. And likely would have supported making either the Perry or Getzlaf deals. I'll wager some of them are among the ones 'worried' that Anaheim has so much locked up in those three players.

I aruged that neither player was going to be available - because Anaheim would choose to keep them. Just like the Flyers chose to "keeP" Richards, Crater and JVR by signing them to long-term deals.

The difference being that Anaheim (so far) has stayed the course and the Flyers "reloaded" a gun that still hasn't hit the target since 1975.

I hate the long-term deal shenanigans. I think especially the guaranteed money has an adverse impact on players' development.

And just because some damn fool somewhere is likely to make some damn fool decision is no reason to be a bigger fool.

[Polaris922]

Absolutely. But sometimes the best deals are the ones you don't make.

Shea Weber says "hi". Chris Drury. Scott Gomez. Mike Rathje. Wade Redden. Ilya Bryzgalov. Rick DiPietro. Alex Ovechkin. Ville Leino. Anything having to do with Dave Waddell, Scott Howson or Mike Milbury.

Many on this very board were salivating over the prospect of getting Getzlaf. Or Perry. Or Ryan. And likely would have supported making either the Perry or Getzlaf deals. I'll wager some of them are among the ones 'worried' that Anaheim has so much locked up in those three players.

I aruged that neither player was going to be available - because Anaheim would choose to keep them. Just like the Flyers chose to "keeP" Richards, Crater and JVR by signing them to long-term deals.

The difference being that Anaheim (so far) has stayed the course and the Flyers "reloaded" a gun that still hasn't hit the target since 1975.

I hate the long-term deal shenanigans. I think especially the guaranteed money has an adverse impact on players' development.

And just because some damn fool somewhere is likely to make some damn fool decision is no reason to be a bigger fool.

I think the general managers of this league have forced their own hands. It seems most teams will have one or two guys making the big money, and most of the others feed off the bottom. Honestly, at least in examining the Penguins and our cap space, I'm okay with that. Crosby + Malkin is big money. Yet there is enough to have Letang, Martin, and Neal as well with pretty big contracts. It sounds like a lot of money all tied up in so few bodies, but we're winning. We won a Cup that way and look to be competitive for several more in the coming years.

These kinds of contracts are becoming the norm. Sign your big guns to money that assures they are happy, then fill in the other pieces with what you have left.

[brelic]

I think the general managers of this league have forced their own hands. It seems most teams will have one or two guys making the big money, and most of the others feed off the bottom. Honestly, at least in examining the Penguins and our cap space, I'm okay with that. Crosby + Malkin is big money. Yet there is enough to have Letang, Martin, and Neal as well with pretty big contracts. It sounds like a lot of money all tied up in so few bodies, but we're winning. We won a Cup that way and look to be competitive for several more in the coming years.

These kinds of contracts are becoming the norm. Sign your big guns to money that assures they are happy, then fill in the other pieces with what you have left.

Again, it's not so much the money, but their length and the fact that they are guaranteed. Throw in the token NMC for most big-name player contracts, and you've got a team that is essentially handcuffed, and a player that will make money regardless of how he performs on and off the ice.

I'd have no problem with a 2-year $10M contract for Giroux. I would have a problem with an 8-year, $8M contract though.

[AndyS]

Like it or not, Getzlaf and Perry are the stars of that team. They are their best players. They sell tickets (!), and they win a lot of games for the Ducks & will continue to do so for a long time.

They have a lot of young (read: inexpensive) talent, so they should be OK for a while.

They couldn't NOT sign them.

But they will almost certainly have to trade Bobby Ryan now this offseason.

P.S. They Flyers should try to sign Saku Koivu this offseason. He's a good play-maker & one of the best faceoff men in the NHL.

[Polaris922]

Again, it's not so much the money, but their length and the fact that they are guaranteed. Throw in the token NMC for most big-name player contracts, and you've got a team that is essentially handcuffed, and a player that will make money regardless of how he performs on and off the ice.

I'd have no problem with a 2-year $10M contract for Giroux. I would have a problem with an 8-year, $8M contract though.

I don't even mind the length... it's the NMC that hurts. I don't think the Pens do those. Crosby didn't even get one that I can see.

[flyercanuck]

Crosby isn't old enough for a NMC.

[Polaris922]

Crosby isn't old enough for a NMC.

Got me there... wasn't even thinking age. A year short yet.

[brelic]

I don't even mind the length... it's the NMC that hurts. I don't think the Pens do those. Crosby didn't even get one that I can see.

Agreed. It should be one or the other - length or NMC. Either way, the player will have security.

[mojo1917]

P.S. They Flyers should try to sign Saku Koivu this offseason. He's a good play-maker & one of the best faceoff men in the NHL.

I like those Koivus good quality norsemen there.

we do need guys to win faceoffs but i think a more pressing need is to find a winger with a gunner's conscience, we have plenty of set up guys..

[jammer2]

Like I said from the very start, NO WAY would the Ducks let these two hit the open market and lose them for nothing. The very idea is job suicide for any GM. People getting a chubby picturing them in O&B were so far off base, it was not even funny. What a waste of time.

[jammer2]

Like I said from the very start, NO WAY would the Ducks let these two hit the open market and lose them for nothing. The very idea is job suicide for any GM. People getting a chubby picturing them in O&B were so far off base, it was not even funny. What a waste of time.

[Polaris922]

Like I said from the very start, NO WAY would the Ducks let these two hit the open market and lose them for nothing. The very idea is job suicide for any GM. People getting a chubby picturing them in O&B were so far off base, it was not even funny. What a waste of time.

I think everyone knew there was little to no chance they'd be moving on... but some folks just like to dream.