So What Does it All mean!?

[Bakanekimiwa]

the Flyers played their best hockey at the very end here, all the while with a heavily rookie laden team. the kids are hungry and this last little stretch here was very encouraging for the future.

Mason was outstanding tonight. the league seems to be unanimous in its praise for Reggie Lemelin and tonight lends a bit of credence as to the 'why' that is. I've been critical of him myself, but that's obviously a very naive opinion since I really have no idea how goalie coaching works... nor do I pretend to like some here.... I will forego the names.

Now.. have no delusions of grandeur for next season, but it seems that maybe we're not as far off from the promised land as we thought even a few weeks ago.

What do you all think!? Is this a misguided feeling based the anomaly of recent successes!? Or is there really some cause for optimism here!? curious...

[fishbulb]

I believe Mr. Lemelin was replaced by Jeff Reese a few years back ;-pp

As far as my opinion about the recent showing??... Meltzer summed it up best... even an ahl defense can

look competent when the forwards are helping and a timely save is made.

I'd like a new coach, but none of the options look good.

I'd like a new GM... but ditto.

Breez and Danny need to be gone, but Breez isn't :-(

We really f'd up getting a top end pick, but hopefully a solid dman will be found.

There are some great young pieces here... hopefully they'll still be here in the fall.

[Jmdodgesrt4]

We have trade pieces to move up a few spots. I figure maybe Haag? Or morrisey? Maybe pulock. But that's a bit early in the draft for him. Or maybe trade down to 20 and grab him with another draft pick from the trade.

[Bakanekimiwa]

oops... meant Reese... my old brain. So, if we're looking to improve from the draft, then we're more than a few years away. And then, yes, they screwed themselves good by playing well.

I like Meltzers analysis, but then it really begs the question as to why it took them 30 friggin games to play like they're supposed to. Maybe he's not so subtlety indicting the coach there.

I agree with you @fishbulb that they won't fire the coach or the GM. I firmly believe Bryz gets one more year... At this point even Briere knows he just played his last Flyers game.

[JackStraw]

@Bakanekimiwa - I've never felt that the team was THAT far away from contending. Just that the there were/are some key missing pieces that might not be easy to fill. Mason has certainly looked good but he's been in a low pressure situation so far. But there's definitely some cause for optimism there. Gus also really stepped up his game in the latter part of the year, that could really help the situation on the blue line. If he can be a solid second (or even third) pairing guy Homer's job becomes a bit easier. I'm hoping for Ristoleinen, Nurse would be even better although unlikely for the Flyers at this point.

[Howie58]

I was going to post a thread like this, but glad Bak started. So here is my take.

Let me start with the following: I think Flyers' history prior to the first strike should be all but-forgotten in assessing where we are today. The salary cap and rule changes have made for a very different reality. We are well past the days where the same six teams were almost always in the Finals. In fact--I don't think we've had a repeat Cup winner since the "lost season."

So, what does that leave us? Homer was candid about it earlier this week. Inconsistency.

We have had two flukey Cup runs. Two seasons out of the Playoffs. And four seasons that were good to OK in terms of points with an important asterisk--sub-par play against better than .500 teams.

My take is that Homer (and his patron Snider) is the principal culprit. And the last few weeks may bear out the problem and the solution. Homer is an excellent opportunist. For all we know, Mason may be the real deal. And...maybe Voracek will be one of Homer collected first-rounders who stays consistently good...not like a Steve Eminger or nose-picker Pitkanen. But on the other hand--a group of no-name AHLers and youngsters outperforms the vets. Maybe that's the other side of the coin. A group of not-so-hot picks who have time to play and develop together may be a better base than Homer's usual opportunism.

Bottom line--I think Homer probably needs to go. Unfortunately, that might not happen. So I suspect Lavy may be scapegoated. Meanwhile, I almost don't care about where we draft. Why not follow the Blackhawks' experience and keep a cadre of players together and see how they gel.

Best,

Howie

[toughfighter83]

the thing is with homer is that he wont get rid of the aging vets, which is hurting the youth on this team like harnell, feds, gagne, mez, coburn, timms, keep grossman, especially on defense, i think it's time to play the young players, sign some fa young players, not old players and get a new coach that holds accountability to this players.

if homer is not gone, this team will not go anywhere, i dont care what good players he brought in, he should have hold lav accountable for the team's chemistry.

[flyercanuck]

@Bakanekimiwa

I think we have as good a young crop as any team in the league when it comes to the forward position. We have a nice combination of skill (Giroux, Voracek, Read) grit (Schenn, Simmonds) and D (Couturier and Laughton).

We have some decent defence under the age of 30. Schenn is coming around nicely after Ron Wilson almost destroyed him as a hockey player. Coburn has to be better next year. The young guys from the Phantoms were a lot better than any of us expected. Go figure.

In goal we may have finally found something. it's only 7 games, but a 1.90 GAA and a .944 save percentage is the best this team has seen in a long, long, long ,long time. Or longer. Masons skillset gives us something back there we all forgot goaltending was about. And he wasn't doing it with a handful of shots..he stopped close to 50 a couple of times. Again, it's a pretty small sample though.

This team isn't nearly as bad as they played this year. The forwards will only get batter with time. Once the two Br-oat anchor contracts are gone we can hopefully get some guys that actually earn their paycheck to replace that salary.

It's too bad we finished so well. It's good going forward for these young guys to get some confidence back, especially in their netminder. But a top 5-6 pick sure would have been the cherry on top. Hopefully we either win the lottery (good luck) or find the next best player outside of those top no brainer gamechangers..

[flyercanuck]

@Jmdodgesrt4

I don't think you have to trade up to get those type of players...they should be right around where we pick.

[ruxpin]

It's difficult to base anything off of the last couple weeks.

My gut tells me this team played better once the pressure was off. There were also some fill-in players working their tails off to prove they belong...or at the very least to take full advantage of their 15 minutes of NHL career just for posterity sake. You had a new goalie who had struggled elsewhere also trying to prove something both to himself and his new organIzation.

So, my gut tells me that this confluence of factors that created some success at the end--when it was too late for the playoffs and in opposition to the club's long-term interests-- wouldn't have either been present nor possible at any other time in the season or under any other conditions. Nor do I think those factors would have caused the same result at any other time of the season.

It does make me think, however, that a coaching change early on MIGHT have had similar effect. If the idea was "make the playoffs at all costs" even though ultimate success wasn't possible even if they did, then firing Lavy in early March might have done the trick. I'm not contending that this is what should have been done, but I think the results might have mimicked what we saw the last two weeks or so.

The question of the thread, however, was what does it mean going forward? I don't think it means a damned thing. I think it's an aberration and a mixture of factors that are temporary and cannot be repeated. I'm not prognosticating as to success or failure next year, but what I am saying is that the last two weeks or so will like have little bearing on anything next year, the possible exception being in goal.

I don't think it can possibly escape management's attention that this team did play better in front of Mason. At the very least, I would think Mason bought himself a lot more playing time next year than he might have otherwise had.

[flyercanuck]

@toughfighter83

You can't just have all young guys out there. Timonens veteran presence is good for young guys.Hartnell will likely be a lot better next year. Same with Coburn.

Hey congrats...Bryz finished the season with a .900 save percentage...never thought he had it in him. Masons was .944 on the Flyers, and a 1.90 GAA vs Bryz' 2.79.

[ruxpin]

You can't just have all young guys out there. Timonens veteran presence is good for young guys [yes]. Hartnell will likely be a lot better next year. [i see no reason to think this, so I hope you don't put money on it]. Same with Coburn. [Provided he's not asked to play above his station. Fry counter would be good.]

[flyercanuck]

@ruxpin

C'mon, Hartnells numbers even pro-rated were half of his NHL average. Same with Coburn.

[toughfighter83]

@ruxpin

C'mon, Hartnells numbers even pro-rated were half of his NHL average. Same with Coburn.

hartnell and coburn are slow, they just stand around, they dont play hard. dont give me injury excuses with hartnell, he didnt do squat in playoffs. last year, coburn is just lously slow defender, he was a -10 this year, it proves how bad he is, espeically with the money they are paying him, dont get started with mez, he's injury prone overpaid defender that's why tampa got rid of him and homer was fool for taking him.

i seriously dont know what you see in these players, it's like you favor lously players over players that want to play. you sound like homer and lav, play the lously players over players that want to play.

Edited April 28, 2013 by toughfighter83

[ruxpin]

hartnell and coburn are slow, they just stand around, they dont play hard, dont give me injury excuses with hartnell, he didnt do squat in playoffs last year, coburn is just lously slow defender, he was a -10 this year, it proves how bad he is, espeically with the money they are paying him, dont get started with mez, he's injury prone overpaid defender that's why tampa got rid of him and homer was fool for taking him.

I'm onboard with criticizing Hartnell and Coburn, but I disagree with the reasons. Coburn is not slow. He's actually a pretty good skater. It's just that his mind isn't consistently in the game. I don't know if he's distracted by the lights or if he's bipolar or what, but sometimes he's good, other times he's horrible. This year, horrible was the dominant gear.

Hartnell is slow, particularly in comparison to linemates they keep putting him with. I don't actually mind this because it's a good change-up with those linemates, at least in situations where there is offensive zone possession. His [lack of] speed can be a rush-killer, though. What I don't buy is that the guy doesn't try hard. I think the guy has tremendous heart and tries very hard. But he's a horrible skater, trips over lines, and just doesn't have as much skill as people want to give him credit for. How many goals last year actually went in off his ass? Or at least just kind of happened to hit him on the way in. Again, he works hard. I just don't think he's actually that good.

Mez ended up being a lot better than I thought he was when we got him. Those days are over. He's a skating porcelain doll at this point. I'd do my best to get rid of him if I could.

[toughfighter83]

I'm onboard with criticizing Hartnell and Coburn, but I disagree with the reasons. Coburn is not slow. He's actually a pretty good skater. It's just that his mind isn't consistently in the game. I don't know if he's distracted by the lights or if he's bipolar or what, but sometimes he's good, other times he's horrible. This year, horrible was the dominant gear.

Hartnell is slow, particularly in comparison to linemates they keep putting him with. I don't actually mind this because it's a good change-up with those linemates, at least in situations where there is offensive zone possession. His [lack of] speed can be a rush-killer, though. What I don't buy is that the guy doesn't try hard. I think the guy has tremendous heart and tries very hard. But he's a horrible skater, trips over lines, and just doesn't have as much skill as people want to give him credit for. How many goals last year actually went in off his ass? Or at least just kind of happened to hit him on the way in. Again, he works hard. I just don't think he's actually that good.

Mez ended up being a lot better than I thought he was when we got him. Those days are over. He's a skating porcelain doll at this point. I'd do my best to get rid of him if I could.

the flyers are giving up 40 shots a game when mason is in goal, isnt that a concern? i mean is it the players and coaching? i mean it's good that mason is saving them but a trend like that can burn a goalie out no matter who's in net.

[flyercanuck]

@toughfighter83

Coburn is slow? OK.

Talent Analysis

Coburn is a mostly stay at home defenseman who skates very well and makes a good outlet pass.

[flyercanuck]

the flyers are giving up 40 shots a game when mason is in goal, isnt that a concern? i mean is it the players and coaching? i mean it's good that mason is saving them but a trend like that can burn a goalie out no matter who's in net.

Hey, at least they have a chance to win with Mason whether he's getting 20 or 40 shots. There's a lot of young guys on the team. They're going to make mistakes. You want to get rid of all the vets, but then you're going to end up with even more mistakes. You can't just have a team full of 22 year olds.

[doom88]

Four of those six D who allowed 40+ shots were in the AHL at the beginning of the season because they were young and needed seasoning and time on ice. Gus, Lauridsen, Manning, and Konan. The somewhat young Luke Schenn was also back there. Just an observation on a super young defensive corps and shots on goal.

Heck of a job by Mason! High effort too. I wish the other goalie was held more accountable for his on ice production and effort.

[toughfighter83]

@toughfighter83

Coburn is slow? OK.

Talent Analysis

Coburn is a mostly stay at home defenseman who skates very well and makes a good outlet pass.

he's a -10 this year, what's your excuse for that?

[doom88]

The team scored on PP, where +/- doesn't change. The team was weak in 5 on 5 play, which does affect plus minus.

It's a funny stat that kind of has to be taken into context of the entire team's performance.

I mean, Kronwall was a -5. Does he magically suck now? Shea Weber at -2. Andrei Markov at -9.

[flyercanuck]

he's a -10 this year, what's your excuse for that?

That isn't his speed.

[ruxpin]

Hey, at least they have a chance to win with Mason whether he's getting 20 or 40 shots. There's a lot of young guys on the team. They're going to make mistakes. You want to get rid of all the vets, but then you're going to end up with even more mistakes. You can't just have a team full of 22 year olds.

Maybe you can help me with something. All year long the seemingly mandatory defense of Bryz was that our defense stunk and that he was always left to defend on his own. Nevermind that for most of the year the Flyers were 7th or 8th best at shots allowed at roughly 27/game. So now Mason is in there and they're winning while giving up 40 but he gets no credit. I don't get it. Can you help?

[ruxpin]

he's a -10 this year, what's your excuse for that?

The -10 and speed have absolutely nothing to do with each other. I'd ask what you think makes them go together, but I'm scared you'd try to answer. And I already have a migraine.

[ruxpin]

the flyers are giving up 40 shots a game when mason is in goal, isnt that a concern? i mean is it the players and coaching? i mean it's good that mason is saving them but a trend like that can burn a goalie out no matter who's in net.

First, I really have to ask you why you can never seem to respond to what's being said. You're all over the place. You quote my post but then write something that has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with what you quoted. Why bother quoting?

It's like we're talking about gardening and the pros and cons of natural vs. chemical fertilizer. You come along and quote a post on the pro-natural side and then write, "Yeah, but what do, you think of the, Chevy Mustang?"

Since I quoted you: "....no matter who is in net." No, it does matter who is in net. See, Bryz faces 27 shots and you use that as an excuse for giving up no less than 2 ridiculous goals/game. Somehow, 27 shots/game makes it perfectly acceptable that he DUCKED a damn shot. Mason comes in and faces 40/game and wins, wins, wins, and the best you can offer is "that's going to tire a goalie out no matter who's in net."

Sorry to throw ridicious stats out there, but the difference between the two goalies is night and day. A decent goalie in there all year long and we're probably still playing next week--lousy defense and coaching notwithstanding.