AJgoal Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 In Carolina, yes, he had a nice playoff run. Cam Ward won the Conn Smythe. Did Cam Ward start the playoffs in goal for the 'Canes? No. Martin Gerber did.Who made that pick? Laviolette. When Gerber imploded, he went with his only other option - heckuva coaching decision that one - and struck gold.Your statement implies that it should have been more obvious that he should have played Ward. in the 2005/2006 regular season, Gerber had a .906 save percentage, while Ward had a .882. Neither goalie was particularly hot going into the playoffs, but without doing the math, I'd hazard to say that Gerber's numbers were probably slightly better. Gerber let up 6 goals on 21 shots in Game 1 against Montreal, then was pulled after giving up 3 in the first in Game 2. Ward was pulled after giving up four in the first 20:44 in Game 5 against NJ, but Laviolette went back to him for Game 5, which they won. Ward was again pulled in game 3 vs. Buffalo after looking shaky in the first two games of the series, and was reinserted in the middle of game 4.I'm not arguing that Laviolette is a great coach, I think he's a good coach, but going with Gerber to start the playoffs was what he should have done. And while Ward posted a .920 save percentage overall in the playoffs, he also posted individual game marks of .870, .765, .889, .842 (a game the 'Canes won, btw), .846, .862, .882, and .895 (also a W). That's a sub-.900 save percentage in over a third of his games played. He won some games for them, but he also lost a few. And there were a few the team won in spite of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevluk Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 I like Lavy and how he carries himself on 24/7, but I thought he was in better shape. He's kinda fat. (put this in the category of completely meaningless comments, which I am very good at.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 I like Lavy and how he carries himself on 24/7, but I thought he was in better shape. He's kinda fat. (put this in the category of completely meaningless comments, which I am very good at.)He's no Andy Reid, but yeah, it wouldn't hurt him to step away from the buffet table once in a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Stopping the puck going in their own net has been. In GAA, they are a full goal behind Boston (#1 in goals for) and a half a goal behind Vancouver (#1 in total goals).i think that's a tough thing to hang on laviolette, though, or the team in generally, really. the goaltending has been SO spotty...i don't know how you can statistically seperate the two, but as close as i can get are shot-against totals, and the flyers are top-5 in the league there. quality of shots isn't represented there, and the stamkos, steven point is well taken, but....i just think the goaltending has been prone to bad enough downs that it's tough to diagnose any problems team-defense-wise. they could change their approach to minimize that, but at the cost of some positives that the current system offers...what happens to a high-scoring transition team when they start playing a game that stops creating rushes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinorama Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Good point @SoCalFlyfanMaybe they aren't even shooting pucks at net in practice and that's why Bryz sucks donkey's balls?that's fabulous! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevluk Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 He's no Andy Reid, but yeah, it wouldn't hurt him to step away from the buffet table once in a while.Let's compare apples to apples. Football coaches are supposed to be fat. He's no Ken Hitchcock (or Barry Trotz) but he should lay off the donuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Let's compare apples to apples. Football coaches are supposed to be fat. He's no Ken Hitchcock (or Barry Trotz) but he should lay off the donuts.Good point. That's much better, thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 1) Barry Trotz2) Pierre Page3) Dave King4) Jacques Demers5) Mike Milburry6) Rick BownessI am presuming this is sarcasm. Yet, Barry Trotz is a damn fine hockey coach. What he has accomplished in Nashville is nothing short of miraculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakanekimiwa Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 It's right there in black and white (or whatever your particular settings conjure)Again, Laviolette is a "good" coach. He's not a "great" coach. Yet.I'm not sure why this is so hard to grasp...As for the Isles, let's remember that this was 10 years ago. Yang was throwing buckets of money around. Alexi Yashin was their top center. Michael Peca was on that squad. Chris Osgood was the goalie (in front of some guy named Snow).Laviolette was there for two years, and was let go for the most part because they felt he should have been doing better with the talent he had than back to back first round losses and player disenchantment.The Islanders then... lost in the first round the next season.I guess there's some semantic issues here. It's not that your point is hard to grasp, I guess we just have different connotations of the words 'good' and 'great' when it comes to hockey coaching. I think you overvalue 'great' and I undervalue it. I'm not meaning to say that laviolette is the 2nd coming of Herb Brooks, I just think he's done a great job with what he's got. This season is a very good example of that. This team is playing very well despite injury problems and goalie issues. But.. Using the islanders as an example of why you think he's not 'great'!? That org has been a mess ever since crazy Wang made Garth snow gm. 15 year deal to dipietro tells you all you need to know about how they operate. No clue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I guess there's some semantic issues here. It's not that your point is hard to grasp, I guess we just have different connotations of the words 'good' and 'great' when it comes to hockey coaching. I think you overvalue 'great' and I undervalue it. I'm not meaning to say that laviolette is the 2nd coming of Herb Brooks, I just think he's done a great job with what he's got. This season is a very good example of that. This team is playing very well despite injury problems and goalie issues.But.. Using the islanders as an example of why you think he's not 'great'!? That org has been a mess ever since crazy Wang made Garth snow gm. 15 year deal to dipietro tells you all you need to know about how they operate. No clue. Ya, this was Snider and Holmgren signing Bryz years ago. it was a stupid move. it was done before. it blew up in their faces. And then Snider and Holmgren went out and did it anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Your statement implies that it should have been more obvious that he should have played Ward. in the 2005/2006 regular season, Gerber had a .906 save percentage, while Ward had a .882. Neither goalie was particularly hot going into the playoffs, but without doing the math, I'd hazard to say that Gerber's numbers were probably slightly better. Gerber let up 6 goals on 21 shots in Game 1 against Montreal, then was pulled after giving up 3 in the first in Game 2. Ward was pulled after giving up four in the first 20:44 in Game 5 against NJ, but Laviolette went back to him for Game 5, which they won. Ward was again pulled in game 3 vs. Buffalo after looking shaky in the first two games of the series, and was reinserted in the middle of game 4.I'm not arguing that Laviolette is a great coach, I think he's a good coach, but going with Gerber to start the playoffs was what he should have done. And while Ward posted a .920 save percentage overall in the playoffs, he also posted individual game marks of .870, .765, .889, .842 (a game the 'Canes won, btw), .846, .862, .882, and .895 (also a W). That's a sub-.900 save percentage in over a third of his games played. He won some games for them, but he also lost a few. And there were a few the team won in spite of him.You inferred an argument that was not implied.Here's the argument implied in the thread by several posters: Laviolette won the Cup and is therefore a great coach. Well, Cam Ward - individual game marks notwithstanding - was the CONN SMYTHE TROPHY winner as the best player in the playoffs. I didn't say that Ward was the best player in the playoffs that season - the LEAGUE did by giving him the trophy.My point here is that Laviolette didn't PICK Ward to be the goalie in that series. He was forced to play him by Gerber's implosion. Once he went to Ward he stayed with him despite some shaky starts.Again, we agree he is a "good" coach and not a "great" coach, everything else is minutae. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 But.. Using the islanders as an example of why you think he's not 'great'!? That org has been a mess ever since crazy Wang made Garth snow gm. 15 year deal to dipietro tells you all you need to know about how they operate. No clue.When Laviolette was there Snow was still playing goalie. He backed up Osgood. They also drafted DiPietro in Laviolette's last season. The 15-year deal and Snow GM didn't even enter into it at that point. They have absolutely nothing to do with Laviolette's time on the Island any more than the the decision to sign Bryzgalov to a nine-year, $51M, NMC deal had anything to do with Hitchcock or Stevens.However, you are right, it just might reflect on the abject insanity of how a front office handles things, which has been another point I've made about the Flyers...Lavy was expected to do better with the talent Wang thought Millbury was buying. After two years, he was let go.Apparently the franchise didn't see Laviolette as a "great" coach despite taking them to the playoffs two years in a row and losing in the first round.For me a "great" coach is consistent and displays consistency. I don't use the term lightly. Scotty Bowman? Missed the playoffs once in his career. One of the Very few I would call a "great coach."Herb Brooks is a personal hero of mine - coach of the greatest sports upset of All Time - and he has a pretty mediocre 219-22-66 NHL record. A "great" developmental coach? Maybe. A great NHL coach? No.This thread started with the initial poster asserting IN THE FIRST LINE that "Laviolette is a great coach" - I disagreed then. I do now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 (edited) I vote rad wins this discussion for using the word "minutiae" even though he spelled it wrong. Spelt? edit: as did I Edited December 30, 2011 by flyercanuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I vote rad wins this discussion for using the word "minutia" even though he spelled it wrong. Spelt?so did you :-)http://www.bing.com/Dictionary/search?q=define+minutiae&qpvt=minutae&FORM=DTPDIA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Already fixed and admitted to before your post!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Already fixed and admitted to before your post!!I posted and you edited at 12:08 PM. Sometimes stats are misleading, but not this time :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Mine was at 12:08.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 exactly. I think you came in at 12:08.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.