Couts for Oilers pick (7th=Nurse)?

[ctid]

I would seriously consider it.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Richard-Cloutier/Couturier-to-Oilers/131/52015#.UbSKfNhQO9o

[flyercanuck]

@ctid

I'd consider Couturier. But if theres a team that needs defencemen more than Philly, it's Edmonton.

[ruxpin]

@flyercanuck

Yeah, the Flyers--if healthy--at least have a bunch of 3-4s. (I'm sorry, I've always been a huge fan of Timo, but asking him to play #1 is too much at this stage of his career).

The Oilers really don't even have that. I don't see Edmonton as being a suitable trading partner. On the otherhand, they've become used to top 5 picks and may not hold a #7 in that high regard.

As to Couturier, I don't move him. Yeah, not a great season but he IS going to rebound and we'll be sorry we Patrick Sharped him.

[doom88]

I'd consider it if something else comes along for the ride. Maybe a 2nd rounder as well?

Then see if two 1s (7, 11) get you MacKinnon, and two 2s get you back into the first round, targeting Fucale possibly.

[ruxpin]

yeah, doom.

But I have a feeling it would be the "something else" going the other way. I just don't see Edmonton--or anyone else--surrendering a high first round pick for a player--any player--without some kind of pick going back.

I really like Couturier, obviously, but I don't think he gets you a #7 pick straight up and definitely not a 1st rounder (#7) plus and 2nd rounder. And definitely not to a team in the shape that Edmonton is in. Then again, I don't know how involved Scott Howson is, so I guess anything is possible.

[doom88]

@ruxpin

Edmonton needs NHL players. Good ones with potential don't just fall out of trees. Especially considering Couturier's talent and potential. Plus, none voluntarily want to go to EDM. He still won't be 30 ten years from now!

Picks are crapshots, who won't be ready for a few years - if ever. Cooter has 1.5 years NHL experience and NHL playoff experience already!

[ruxpin]

Picks are crapshots, who won't be ready for a few years - if ever. Cooter has 1.5 years NHL experience and NHL playoff experience already!

You realize this could just as well be the argument to NOT trade Coots just to move up 4 spots, right?

No way Edmonton trades a 7th overall pick for him let alone throw in an extra pick.

And if I'm Philly, there's no way I trade unless they do throw in an extra pick.

So I just don't see this ever happening.

[doom88]

You realize this could just as well be the argument to NOT trade Coots just to move up 4 spots, right?

No way Edmonton trades a 7th overall pick for him let alone throw in an extra pick.

And if I'm Philly, there's no way I trade unless they do throw in an extra pick.

So I just don't see this ever happening.

I agree rux, it's an argument both ways. It's also why I think it could work, both teams give to get, and fill current wants/needs. At the very least, critical framework is there.

[ruxpin]

@doom88

I agree. I guess it's not out of the realm of possibility, but let's just say I find it extremely unlikely. My argument aside, I really think @flyercanuck had the trumping argument that edmonton needs defense.

On the other hand, they could also really use a defensibly-reliable center.

[sekkes85]

@flyercanuck

As to Couturier, I don't move him. Yeah, not a great season but he IS going to rebound and we'll be sorry we Patrick Sharped him.

At least we would get something of value in return... who did we get back in that trade? Matt Ellison who has 7 NHL GP and 1 NHL point as opposed to Sharp's 405 points in 595 games (and an All Star selection and a Stanley Cup)... *smacks forehead and sobs*

[ruxpin]

At least we would get something of value in return... who did we get back in that trade? Matt Ellison who has 7 NHL GP and 1 NHL point as opposed to Sharp's 405 points in 595 games (and an All Star selection and a Stanley Cup)... *smacks forehead and sobs*

Ticks me off every damn time I think about it. That was another instance where theManGirl03 and I strongly disagreed. Of course, the opinion was from the StayPuft Marshmallow Man with his hand up her ass, but she was still wrong.

[OccamsRazor]

My argument aside, I really think @flyercanuck had the trumping argument that edmonton needs defense.

Well they have guys waiting like Oscar Klefbom who would need some time to adjust to the NA game and my how Colten Tuebert's game has fallen off, it seems (2008 13th overall)....so like many Nurse or whomever there is no certainty. Yet who doesn't really need defenseman????

i'm ok just see what falls to #11....

[aziz]

<br />Ticks me off every damn time I think about it.<br />

fah. sharp was garbage in philly. imo, the trade is what made him realize a career wasn't just going to handed to him in exchange for drifting around in big lazy circles. if sharp doesn't get moved, he spends a couple more years being completely useless and finishes out an unspectacular career in the AHL.

people look at him in Chicago and say, "man, we could have had that," but I don't think that's the case. he was one of the most unengaged, lazy, uncommitted players I've seen while he was in Philadelphia. nacho york meets vinny prospal with a side of pavel brendl. sans wake up call, he never gets into gear. good on him for having the coming to jesus moment, but I think maker/hitch were right at the time.

[ruxpin]

fah. sharp was garbage in philly. imo, the trade is what made him realize a career wasn't just going to handed to him in exchange for drifting around in big lazy circles. if sharp doesn't get moved, he spends a couple more years being completely useless and finishes out an unspectacular career in the AHL.

people look at him in Chicago and say, "man, we could have had that," but I don't think that's the case. he was one of the most unengaged, lazy, uncommitted players I've seen while he was in Philadelphia. nacho york meets vinny prospal with a side of pavel brendl. sans wake up call, he never gets into gear. good on him for having the coming to jesus moment, but I think maker/hitch were right at the time.

I can't tell you how much I disagree with that. I really liked him in Philly and thought he was badly misused by Hitchcock and said so many times at the time. I even told the folks on the Chicago boards at the time who thought they were getting a "goon" (I think their only knowledge of him was the Ottawa brawl) that they were going to love the kid. I didn't see the circles you're talking about--at all. I saw him in a role that made no sense to me. Granted, some (most, if not all) of the dumb role he was in was because he was blocked from better roles due to those playing in front of him in Philly. He didn't have that on a rebuilding Chicago team. But given that, he should have been kept in a better role in the A and nurtured here a bit more. But God knows the Flyers don't do that with their players. Throw Zubrus, Willliams (bad example because other things were involved in trading him), Sharp, Richards, Giroux etc. to the wolves and jettison them when the obvious and predictable results happen.

Lastly, theMangirl03 was NEVER right. Even about golf.

[ruxpin]

Oh, and it's rare that *my* predictions turn out to be correct (the other being JVR, but the verdict is still out) so I'm going to harp on this one for awhile.

[brelic]

fah. sharp was garbage in philly. imo, the trade is what made him realize a career wasn't just going to handed to him in exchange for drifting around in big lazy circles. if sharp doesn't get moved, he spends a couple more years being completely useless and finishes out an unspectacular career in the AHL.

people look at him in Chicago and say, "man, we could have had that," but I don't think that's the case. he was one of the most unengaged, lazy, uncommitted players I've seen while he was in Philadelphia. nacho york meets vinny prospal with a side of pavel brendl. sans wake up call, he never gets into gear. good on him for having the coming to jesus moment, but I think maker/hitch were right at the time.

I love how we help others win Cups. The Flyers are so generous that way.

Brind'Amour

Prospal

Fedotenko

Gagne

Richards

Carter

Sharp

Williams

And the granddaddy of them all -> Forsberg.

Coots will win a Cup wherever he's traded before Philly does. Book it.

[ruxpin]

Coots will win a Cup wherever he's traded before Philly does. Book it.

Agreed.

The truly sad thing is that I think that even if Coots NEVER wins a Cup, he'll win before Philly does.

[OccamsRazor]

I love how we help others win Cups. The Flyers are so generous that way.

Brind'Amour

Prospal

Fedotenko

Gagne

Richards

Carter

Sharp

Williams

And the granddaddy of them all -> Forsberg.

Coots will win a Cup wherever he's traded before Philly does. Book it.

Don't forget Seidenberg (6th 2001)and the great Colin Fraser(3rd 2003) (won one last year with LA)... :blink:

[ruxpin]

Don't forget Seidenberg (6th 2001)and the great Colin Fraser(3rd 2003) (won one last year with LA)... :blink:

I clearly remember being told what a dumb dumb player Seidenberg was and how Vandermeer was a better option by my favorite [sic] golf pro [sic again].

[aziz]

I can't tell you how much I disagree with that. I really liked him in Philly and thought he was badly misused by Hitchcock and said so many times at the time.

agree to disagree, I think. he was slow, disliked contact, wouldn't go near the boards, didn't backcheck, an average passer, basically just floated around in the middle of the ice waiting for everyone else to do the work. really hated him. as for misused, I dunno. I remember Hitchcock trying him with gagne, JR, Forsberg, and nothing fit. he was too uninvolved to be given top line time, too contact-shy to be given lower line time. because he didn't do anything, just waited for things to happen. then carter, Richards, and umberger came in -all one to four years younger than him- and blew the doors off his production...and he became scrap to be disposed of. heck, ben eager, four years younger at the time, equaled his production. and certainly didn't get better icetime.

anyway, my impression at the time was that he, potulny, ruzicka, dimotrakos, chouinard, radivojevic, we are all of essentially the same impact. which is to say, none. wasn't the least bit upset to see him leave. given what he turned into in Chicago, I wish he hadn't been such a floating nothing while in philly, but there it is.

funny, it turns out I still have some "god I hate that guy" left from back then. yeah, not the least bit upset he was shipped out.

[aziz]

I love how we help others win Cups. The Flyers are so generous that way.<br /><br />Brind'Amour<br />Prospal<br />Fedotenko<br />Gagne<br />Richards<br />Carter<br />Sharp<br />Williams<br /><br />And the granddaddy of them all -> Forsberg.

you can do that for every team, though. last year's cup winning kings' squad alone had four former oilers. it's the nature of a league where players tend to not stay with a single team their whole career.

[brelic]

you can do that for every team, though. last year's cup winning kings' squad alone had four former oilers. it's the nature of a league where players tend to not stay with a single team their whole career.

That's true... players do move around a lot.

It just happened immediately with the Richards/Carter trades. Forsberg was pretty immediate (2nd season). Brind'Amour went to the SCF in his 2nd season with Carolina (took another 4 years to win it). Kane, who should have been our draft pick, won the SC against us no less.

So, while it may happen around the league too, I'm really not affected by that

[aziz]

@brelic

if it helps, Forsberg was traded in '92, won the cup in '96.

[ruxpin]

anyway, my impression at the time was that he, potulny, ruzicka, dimotrakos, chouinard, radivojevic, we are all of essentially the same impact

Agreeing to disagree so just saying this in a "hmm" kind of way. It's funny you and I came away such widely different impressions of Sharp as a Flyer because we completely agree on the rest of that completely forgettable list. Radio had his moments but ultimately deserves to be on your list. I just honestly--and again I need to stress "at the time" because there's a host of other people who didn't think anything of the trade until Sharp later became what he did--thought very highly of him when he was here.

[pensuck]

Didn't Ricci win one too in Co?